Author Topic: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?  (Read 4773 times)

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Offline Entropia

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New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« on: Sat, 07 November 2020, 16:31:28 »
I am considering purchasing a New Model F (in case the wait is no longer than one or two months). I have not found information about the cases, but I have seen almost everybody who has bought a F77 has opted for the regular model and not the model with the compact case. Is this just because they prefer the traditional look or does the regular case offers advantages in any sense (maybe more ridigity, more weight, better key feel, better paint job, better sound, less ping...) over the compact one? Personally I like the looks of the compact case better, but since these keyboards are extremelly expensive, I would like to ask you before I make any terrible mistake.

Offline diazel

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 00:34:09 »


I am considering purchasing a New Model F (in case the wait is no longer than one or two months). I have not found information about the cases, but I have seen almost everybody who has bought a F77 has opted for the regular model and not the model with the compact case. Is this just because they prefer the traditional look or does the regular case offers advantages in any sense (maybe more ridigity, more weight, better key feel, better paint job, better sound, less ping...) over the compact one? Personally I like the looks of the compact case better, but since these keyboards are extremelly expensive, I would like to ask you before I make any terrible mistake.

100% traditional look for me. I also opted for the solenoid so I wanted to make sure there would be enough room inside.

There's nothing wrong with the compact version. You'll be thrilled with either. The typing experience is incredible.

When you go to buy, keep in mind printed keycaps will make the order take much longer. You can order blanks or what I did was paid $10 extra to ship the keyboard early sans caps. You can easily pick up a set at unicomp.

All this said, if you email Joe/Ellipsis he's always been incredibly helpful and responsive. You could also ask others on the original GB thread

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Offline Entropia

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 02:40:28 »
I think I could wait for a couple of months or so. However, I could do well without keycaps too because I can touch type, but I prefer the looks of the keyboard with legends.

I did not know that Model Fs could have solenoids. I have only seen (videos) of them in keyboards with beam springs. What is the function of solenoids? Is it just for the sound? How much did the price increase to have it installed? Do they add the problem of old beam springs keyboards of not being able to type too quickly (keys not registering quickly enough)?

Did you have any problems with your keyboard? I have read some comments by people reporting issues with the firmware, keys not registering correctly or doing strange things... I don't know about the classic Model Fs, but it seems that these boards are a bit tricky to start working correctly. I hope these problems are just isolated cases and, in case they happen, they do not reappear in the future life of the board.

Some people has also complained about the spacebar, which sounds different from the rest of the keys. One of the things I expect from a good keyboard is that it feels and sounds consistently. Anyway, if I remember well, the spacebar also sounded different in the Model M I have many years ago (a model by Lexmark).

Right now I cannot make up my mind if I will buy this F77 or a brand new Model M from 1991 which I have found on eBay. I have never tried Model Fs and I cannot tell to what degree they are better than the already amazing old Model Ms. The layout of the Model M is better, which make things easier, but the case is also larger and I have get used to the size of my Leopolds FC980s (1800). The layout of the F77 is quite good, despite the lack of the functions keys, which makes no sense because the only problem with keyboards sizes is how wide they are.

I hope you do not mind me asking another question: do you know what keys are reprogrammable? And what is the function of the blank key between the left Ctrl and Alt? I usually change the functions of some keys on my boards to fit my preferences using AutoHotkey, but if I can do it directly it will be preferable. I have been working in the design of how I would like my board if I decided to order the F77.

« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2020, 02:48:26 by Entropia »

Offline diazel

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 06:34:37 »
I prefer with legends as well but I also didn't want to wait for however long it would take as my F77 is going to end up being a Christmas present for my brother. I ordered a set of printed blues. Unicomp has that APL set that, as an engineer, I'm going to pretend that I need. I made the right decision on my book because my F62 never leaves my sight. Can't use it while on the phone or conference all work but otherwise it's becoming my new daily driver.

I did but only with one of them. Luckily, his site has very specific instructions how to fix most of what could happen. I ended up having a couple of keys not register at first. Then I took off and reinstalled the keys while following the video instruction and that fixed all but one. For the last one I tried adjusting the spring by doing a slight stretch and then reseating the spring and whole I was nervous, I fixed it first try. Because these boards our mountain on a curved back plate it's pretty well known that there needs to retain a certain amount of compression on that back plate like a spring otherwise keys are less likely to register. On a model m, that's a big feat because the plastic rivets break off especially as old as they are. on the model f, there's just tabs where you can slide the back off and you use the four screws on the bottom to control the spring tension essentially. I would recommend being comfortable taking apart keyboards and whatnot if you're going to purchase this

Yeah, the solenoid is just to make it louder like an old typewriter. They had done that with the old beam spring keyboards but they decided to do it with these two which is awesome. yes, inherently there will be the issue of the solenoid not being able to keep up if you type really quickly but I wanted to experience it. Only ordered it with one board. Haven't receive the solenoid yet but I received the controller. I don't remember how much it cost off hand but I'll have to install it once it arrives.

Regarding the spacebar, not a single one of my keyboards has the same sound for this spacebar as a regular 1u switch. Not on my Filco, Tofu, GK64, ... Well all of them. I consider the spacebar to almost feel like on an old typewriter the cassette tab or whatever it was.  It's pretty distinguishing on the model f board I will admit, so if that's a big thing to you I would listen to some more sound samples before you make the call. Adding some lubrication to the clips could definitely help with any sort of rattle but the sound will still be a deep thocc compared to the rest of the key strokes.

Every single key is reprogrammable. My f-62 is set up like a HHKB layout with caps lock and control switched while the F77 is straight ANSI. On the ANSI, R-CTRL is Fn button and middle button was menu. But it's QMK compatible so you can make it do whatever you want.

Have you tried the Model M before? Before receiving this f62, I had never felt the capacitive buckling spring before. But I did have a m122 battleship and I can say there is absolutely hands down, no question in my mind that the model f feel is better. Model m, while still satisfying to type on, requires a lot more Force and I find myself typing more slowly on it than my model f because of hand fatigue. The model f i could type on all day and have absolutely no fatigue which is why it's becoming my daily driver. Don't want to stop you from picking up a model M because it's still absolutely incredible and significantly quieter but the feeling & sound are unmatched in my book for the Model F.

If you're not sure, go on eBay and buy one of they keychain samplers and compare them both. $400-500 is a lot to spend on a keyboard interested before and I knew it was a risk but I gambled on all of my favorite youtubers and reviewers were right and I'd love them. And I do love them. Immensely.

regarding the lack of f keys, that's the easiest thing to overcome in my mind because it's the same as the number room but you just hold down the function button just like on every 60 or 65% keyboard nowadays. F77 has several numpad configuration layouts and while it didn't come with the one I preferred, you can change it in the programming. I'm going to set mine up like a vortex vibe where a top left button will be num lock and I'll go back and forth between TKL modifiers and a full numpad like the Vibe or Cooler Master version.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2020, 06:51:50 by diazel »

Offline Entropia

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 07:56:32 »
Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I know a little about spending too much in a piece of hardware (I am also a sim-racing fan). After taking a look at what this would cost me, my Leopold FC980C looks very unexpensive to me now :)  However, I feel like owning and enjoying the best keyboard ever made, so I think it may be worth the effort. It is much easier for people in the USA, but bringing this to Europe adds $55.80 in shipping costs and then we have to pay customs when it arrives, which I guess it will be no less than 70 or 80€. I'll see what happens with the bids for the brand new Model M on eBay. If I can get it for a reasonable price, I may be content with it. If not, then I will have to prepare my wallet.

Offline Entropia

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 09:31:02 »
I have now watched some videos of the New Model Fs with solenoids and I must say it is very very cool, maybe not a a everydayuse, but definitelly for a special occasion. What would I have to buy to have that working? I do not understand well all the devices shown: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/xwhatsit-beam-spring-or-model-f-controller/ I understand I need a solenoid driver and the solenoid itself, but I do not see what exactly I would have to add to the basket. Finally, you said that the solenoid driver fits inside the case of the F77, but does the solenoid fits inside too, or does it has to go outside? Sorry for my ignorance, but I have never seen these things in person.

Offline diazel

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 09:35:29 »
He's got a bunch of information on his site and he's been very responsive to me by email. It'd be better to get it from the horse's mouth. I wouldn't want to steer you won't since I haven't done it yet

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Offline Entropia

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 10:38:28 »
OK, I will e-mail Ellipse and see if I can solve my doubts and complete my order. Thank you very much for your time.

Offline diazel

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 10:54:39 »
Sweet! If you have any doubts about the switches, buying a tester on eBay for $5 you can feel before committing. I will say though, if the noise did nothing to turn you off and you even loved the solenoid sound, this keyboard is made for you.

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Offline phinix

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 08:47:16 »
Did you order F77?
I'm planning to order one and also hesitating.
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Offline diazel

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 09:45:36 »
I ordered both the F62 and F77. I ordered the F62 in beige in HHKB layout and then immediately got "buyers' remorse" and ordered the F77 in industrial gray. I now have and use both. I much prefer the HHKB layout of my F62 but the numpad/TKL functionality of the F77 is the reason why the F77 is normally on my desk these days. Can't use them to game online because it's too loud for open mic (hate push to talk) and when it comes to work, the numpad is invaluable. That said, the two keyboards I find myself going back and forth between now these days are the F77 and Vortex Vibe with lubed Sakurios (late night quiet sessions).

The hesitation is real. It's a steep price especially when you've never typed on one. I ordered the F62 after finally overcoming my hesitation. I don't regret it. The F77 was a purchase made with less inhibitions because I was under the influence. ;)  I'm now in a situation where I can't justify having both but I can't decide which one to let go. If I had picked up the F77 in HHKB layout, I think it would've been the best of both worlds.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 12:09:29 »
I just wanted to add a few things. This, of course, would be the first thread I take the time to read since tech work in a public school district with hybrid learning heated up.

The layout of the F77 is quite good, despite the lack of the functions keys, which makes no sense because the only problem with keyboards sizes is how wide they are.

The F77 has no F keys because the original didn't have any F keys. The original probably didn't have any because it was designed before the Model M moved the F keys to be above the alphanumeric cluster instead of in its own bank of keys on the left. The layout of the F77's sibling, the F107, supports this.



I use a Model F every single day, be it my awesome reproduction F77 or the venerable original F107 I'm using right now. There must be something with capacitive buckling springs nearby. I use them more than SKCM blue Alps, though maybe that's mostly because I baby the one good board I have with those, and the layout isn't as good.

Ellipse has done a wonderful job with his reproductions. I fear I will buy too many of them, in time. They're worth every penny.

Offline diazel

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 14:37:37 »
Ellipse has done a wonderful job with his reproductions. I fear I will buy too many of them, in time. They're worth every penny.

^^^^

Offline funkmon

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 19:08:41 »
Yes, exactly. I have decided I'm going to buy another one when I get paid next month, but in the ultra compact modern case, just in case.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: New Model F (Regular F77 or Ultra Compact Modern Case F77)?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 19:52:23 »
Just came across this thread again today - I am around over PM and email in case anyone has any other questions or is hesitant about ordering a new Model F.  Please also do check out the main GH project thread and the Q&A page on the project web site with hundreds of answered questions.  There's also my project manual as well as a far more comprehensive, well written manual for all Model F keyboards by darkcruix (links at ModelFKeyboards.com/manual).