Did I just buy a 1984 Model M?

[ThirdLap]

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-IBM-CLICKEY-KEYBOARD-1391401-MODEL-M-W-CORD-/320580663344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_500wt_1154

I'm really hoping this was actually made in '84 as it states.  Would have been nice if the seller had taken a picture of the label on the back.

For $29 shipped, I had to take the chance!

[ch_123]

"Made in 1984" is like a big flashing warning sign that the seller is a retard.

I say retard without reservation, because the label says "Date: " and the seller instead decides to use the copyright date as the date of manufacture...

The 1391401s with black on beige label were made from 1987 to 1992. The first production Model Ms were made in mid-1985 as far as I know.

[ThirdLap]

Bet you're right.  Should I take it up with the seller if this turns out to be the case?

[itlnstln]

For $29, assuming it's in decent condition, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  If it's not from 1984, and it's a piece of crap, I would call it to the seller's attention.

[ch_123]

It would be a pretty safe bet given that I can tell you for certain that it was not made in 1984

It doesn't really affect the functionality of what is being sold, so not really. I doubt you'd have much of a case with either the sellers or Paypal, even though the seller is clearly a blind oaf.

The year of manufacture would be only really be of interest to collectors, and collectors are expected to read in to such things, and realize when the seller is selling something that does not exist...

[ThirdLap]

I think I'll shoot her an email questioning her choice of wording once I receive it.

[ch_123]

ncbound10 sold me my AT Model F as a "Model M". Maybe I should have demanded a partial refund

[Soarer]

Seller doesn't claim it was made in 1984, just copied a line from the label. I don't think they intended to mislead anyone...

PRE-OWNED VINTAGE IBM CLICKEY KEYBOARD # 1391401 MODEL M 1984.GREAT CONDITION.

SOLD AS IS THANKS

SHIPPING PRICES MAY VARY

[ThirdLap]

The year of manufacture would be only really be of interest to collectors, and collectors are expected to read in to such things, and realize when the seller is selling something that does not exist...

I'll admit, it was an impulse buy.  I know they were first built in '84, with the stated first year of manufacture being '85.  I was hoping for some strange anomaly or something. Oh well, caveat emptor.

[didjamatic]

The white label guarantees it's made 1987 or later. Those made before 1987 had silver or black square logo labels.  Also, the early ones had black vintage vibe cables and that one is gray.  But it's probably a solid board for a good price.

[ThirdLap]

But it's probably a solid board for a good price.

I guess that's the best way to look at it.  The thing is, I have nine Model Ms now, and I really can't justify buying any more run-of-the-mill examples.  

Oh well, it's not like they're going to ever lose value.

[EverythingIBM]

No Model Ms were made in 1984 as far as I know. 1984 was just the date when the patents and all that were assembled?
I would ASSUME that's why there are two copyright dates. IBM always does that with their products.

There's a great many people using the 1984 copyright date; just makes me laugh. Copyright 1984 and MANUFACTURED in 1987 mean two different things.

[Phaedrus2129]

Maybe someone someday will dig up a 1984 engineering sample of the Model M.

[ch_123]

No Model Ms were made in 1984 as far as I know. 1984 was just the date when the patents and all that were assembled?
I would ASSUME that's why there are two copyright dates. IBM always does that with their products.

There's a great many people using the 1984 copyright date; just makes me laugh. Copyright 1984 and MANUFACTURED in 1987 mean two different things.

Rather bizarrely, the Greenock made ones are copyrighted 1985...

[KillerBee]

Rather bizarrely, the Greenock made ones are copyrighted 1985...

well if you scroll a bit I managed to find one from mid 1985

[ch_123]

I was talking about the copyright dates on the US vs UK ones.

[EverythingIBM]

I was talking about the copyright dates on the US vs UK ones.

That makes sense -- the patents and all that were first done in the US, and then later for the UK.

But there are definitely no Model Ms *manufactured* in 1984. If there was we'd see them because you can't tell me a whole year's worth of keyboards mysteriously vanished. And during 1984 they were still making the F AT keyboards (I guess it was the premonition of phasing out the AT 'boards).

EDIT:
here's sort of a timeline (and it makes sense):

-1984 F AT keyboards still in production, notion of phasing out with the Model M (being prepared).
- 1985 first run of Model M keyboards are done, patenting in the UK takes place for expansion of production.

[ch_123]

There were probably engineering prototypes. Who knows...

It was generally believed that the Industrial 1388032 was the first Model M, then we found out about this part number a while back, so I wouldn't be so quick to assume that because you haven't seen some ancient terminal keyboard from the mid 80s that it doesn't exist.

On the flipside, I was reading the web page of the guy who inverted the inverted-T arrow cluster, and he claimed that IBM's first inverted T using terminal keyboard was this one here.

The AT keyboards were manufactured up until 1987, as the Model M supplemented them as opposed to replacing them. There were still terminal Model Fs being made into the early 90s.