Any way to dampen the bottom out on Cherry switches?

[symphonic1985]

This paper method looks very interesting! Reminds me of the rubber flooring on my Logitech Illuminated. I work in an office with 4 others, so softening bottoming out would be very very good.

I wonder what is easier in the end, modding the keycaps or using a sheet.

[intealls]

This paper method looks very interesting! Reminds me of the rubber flooring on my Logitech Illuminated. I work in an office with 4 others, so softening bottoming out would be very very good.

I wonder what is easier in the end, modding the keycaps or using a sheet.

It's probably easier to get a uniform feel if using a sheet, if you're not using o-rings or dental bands. I'm working on the application used to create cutouts -- expect updates within a few days.

[Findecanor]

Interesting. I have been thinking about dampening in a similar way, but using "craft foam" that is slightly thicker and with slightly larger holes so that it rests on the metal plate in-between the switches and not on the switches themselves. However, all my full-size Cherry keyboards have PCB-mounted switches.

The purpose of using foam is that it also could muffle other sound from within the switch.
I use 3/15" dental bands on my Cherry Blue keyboard, and I think that works pretty well to eliminate clack, but the dental bands does nothing to dampen the loud click noise.

[8_INCH_FLOPPY]

You can punch holes in some thin foam or rubber sheet, cut them out and put them inside the keycaps. A common office hole puncher works for that. I found the shorter travel more irritating than the hard landing though when I experimented with black Cherries a while ago.

You think Black Cherries have short travel?  Really?

[elef]

The rubber mat would most likely be awesome for this. Where do I buy one that thin??

I have no idea. I'm sure you can buy something like this in home depot or some arts and crafts store, but the stuff I have is nicked from some very specialized equipment you'll never hace access to... so yeah, I don't know.
You could possibly use the thin foam-like stuff they put in new laptops to protect the screen. That's thinner than 1mm so it would reduce the travel less, but it would also dampen the noise a lot less, I imagine.

[intealls]

Well, I finished the app sorta. It pretty much does what I want it to, and I managed to create a cutout for my G80-3000 from scratch with it. If anyone wants to try it out, download the app.zip, extract it somewhere and run 'java -jar i.jar g80-3000.cfg g80-3000.png' to generate the cutout from that configuration file. Included is a calibration config, to generate a calibration sheet. It's not very friendly, but it beats doing it in Photoshop. The easiest way to get measurements is to take apart the keyboard and measure on the backside of the PCB. The source is available in src.zip, it could use some tidying up (as always). A low resolution output file is attached, with visible rounding errors. When using a higher resolution these will be a lot less apparent.

edit: if anyone's interested and find the app confusing, let me know and I'll write up a quick tutorial

[symphonic1985]

Thanks for posting your app intealls.  I'll print out some templates soon and try it on my g80. For now I only have access to manilla folder type cardboard but if that works well then I'll move on to something better. What kind of material are you going to try next?

[intealls]

Thanks for posting your app intealls.  I'll print out some templates soon and try it on my g80. For now I only have access to manilla folder type cardboard but if that works well then I'll move on to something better. What kind of material are you going to try next?

I've been trying lots of stuff the last few days, foam rubber, ordinary printer paper (multiple layers of it), stiffer paper, thin foam etc. My index finger is seriously worn from all the cutting.

I found the foam rubber I used to be too thick (sheet was about 2mm) -- the effect is probably similar to the sorbathane ripster used. It also shortened the travel a bit too much for my liking.

Right now I actually prefer two layers of ordinary printer paper. Since the paper is very light, it doesn't matter if it hovers 1-1.5 mm above the switch when being pressed down, I can't feel a difference if it's flat against the switch or not. Of course, printer paper is not very durable. :/ I'll have to use it for a while to see how it holds up.

Next I think I'll try to get ahold of some rubber sheets, between 1-1.5mm, and some kind of soft cardboard (between 120-180g? I found 240 to be a bit too stiff). This whole thing is seriously addictive.

Post your results and tell me if you need help with the app! Also make sure to calibrate the printout, and measure the final print that you're about to cut against a known value. Cutting all the squares just to find that it doesn't fit on the keyboard is, well, disheartening to say the least. Also make sure to recalibrate when using a new kind of paper, my printer skewed differently depending on what paper was used.

[Nadger]

Interesting, thank you for making the program and sharing it with us.  I believe cerial box cardboard would be a good thickness.

I've always wanted to try contact paper and cork paper: http://dcbcrafts.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6002&zenid=bb79d3a12b0a41d1e2f2dea60c6d79ae.

Cork i think would give the best results but sanded poster board may work well too.  I say sanded because it would give it a rougher texture which should absorb sound better then something smooth that soundwaves bounce off of easily.

[intealls]

Interesting, thank you for making the program and sharing it with us.  I believe cerial box cardboard would be a good thickness.

I've always wanted to try contact paper and cork paper: http://dcbcrafts.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6002&zenid=bb79d3a12b0a41d1e2f2dea60c6d79ae.

Cork i think would give the best results but sanded poster board may work well too.  I say sanded because it would give it a rougher texture which should absorb sound better then something smooth that soundwaves bounce off of easily.

I've actually been using cardboard boxes to throw away old cutouts etc, and it never crossed my mind that they could be used for actual cutouts. I just tried it on one switch, and it works great! I'm definitely going to do an entire cutout from it tomorrow (it's 2am here). Another plus is that it is much more sturdy than printer paper. Thanks for the tip!

Also, I think I'm going to do the entire G80 board, as well as devise a way to fasten the cutouts by folding them so that they push down on the switches (U-shape, kind of). If you guys want, I'll write proper documentation and perhaps a tutorial on how to calibrate etc, the app is kind of spartan at the moment.

[Nadger]

I thought you already tried normal cardboard boxes but you found them to be too stiff.  I suggested cereal box cardboard because its super thin.  I too might try sanding the paper (not printed) side of the cereal box to give it a little extra cushion.

Also I wonder if using wax paper or wax paper + smearing a thin layer of caulking over it would work well.

Lastly i was thinking about fabric.  Like maybe fleece or flannel or microfiber.

Edit:
Anyway i look forward to your results.  I have not tried running your program yet, so i cant comment on its user friendliness to know if it needs a tutorial.

My mechanical wont be here for another 2 weeks or so.  If i find it too loud ill try your mods out.  Though the board I ordered uses very thick POM keycaps which from fssbzz's description, sounds like the thicker/higher quality plastic quiets it down a lot compared to his other boards.

[symphonic1985]

Another idea that might not work as well but would be easy to implement:

The vertical space between keyboard rows is the same right? Couldn't you use lines of foam/cardboard horizontally like this-

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It could rest against the PCB. I'm not sure how easy it would be to make it homogeneous. The keycaps wouldn't come in contact with it on every side but enough to stop bottoming out. You could also then use a weaker kind of foam and get a very soft landing. And by filling the inter key spacing you'd achieve additional muffling.  I guess you could also fill this space with the paper cutout method by stuffing tissues or something below it.

In the end I think I'd be most comfortable with rubber, since the idea of generating lots of particulates from paper/fabric that could make their way into the switches is a little bit unsettling.

[elef]

Thanks for posting the png, intealls.
I just pulled the trigger on a G80-3000, so if I find it to be too loud, I may well get cuttin'... however, opening the case voids the warranty, right?

[intealls]

I thought you already tried normal cardboard boxes but you found them to be too stiff.  I suggested cereal box cardboard because its super thin.

The cereal box paper is thinner than the stiff paper (240g, cardboard?) I used previously. I don't think the cereal box paper will cusion the bottom out action as much, but I'm going to try it anyway. It will most certainly remove all of the clack as well as muffle noise.

[intealls]

Thanks for posting the png, intealls.
I just pulled the trigger on a G80-3000, so if I find it to be too loud, I may well get cuttin'... however, opening the case voids the warranty, right?

I think so, but you can experiment with materials by just removing the keycaps. If you like it and wish to make a bigger cutout that's clamped down, you're going to have to open it up. :/

[Nadger]

yeah i wouldnt imagine it to soften it much, but i would expect it to reduce noise.  as to dampen the landing so its softer, as well as reduce noise, id use a shamwow instead ;x

But that might be a ***** to cut since its kinda stretchy

[intealls]

Another idea that might not work as well but would be easy to implement:

The vertical space between keyboard rows is the same right? Couldn't you use lines of foam/cardboard horizontally like this-

------------------

------------------

------------------

It could rest against the PCB. I'm not sure how easy it would be to make it homogeneous. The keycaps wouldn't come in contact with it on every side but enough to stop bottoming out. You could also then use a weaker kind of foam and get a very soft landing. And by filling the inter key spacing you'd achieve additional muffling.  I guess you could also fill this space with the paper cutout method by stuffing tissues or something below it.

In the end I think I'd be most comfortable with rubber, since the idea of generating lots of particulates from paper/fabric that could make their way into the switches is a little bit unsettling.

Sure! That would muffle the sound even more. It might be difficult to get a uniform feel though, but if the foam/cardboard would have a cutout resting on top, that might help achieve that.

There is one thing I should add to the app as well, separate x and y skew correction. When I did the cutout for the alphanumeric section, I didn't need y-correction, since the y-skew became pretty much insignificant. When using larger cutouts, it might be necessary though.

[symphonic1985]

Tomorrow I'll be printing off your cutouts and trying them out. I want to silence my Cherry Blues as much as is feasible - I'll see how much this route can buy me before I glue the stems in one piece.

Hoping that I'll pretty much be able to silence the MX blacks as well. The computer is in the same room that my g/f and I sleep in so I need a stealth keyboard. Logitech illuminated was pretty good for that before.

[intealls]

Tomorrow I'll be printing off your cutouts and trying them out. I want to silence my Cherry Blues as much as is feasible - I'll see how much this route can buy me before I glue the stems in one piece.

Hoping that I'll pretty much be able to silence the MX blacks as well. The computer is in the same room that my g/f and I sleep in so I need a stealth keyboard. Logitech illuminated was pretty good for that before.

Cool

I just finished writing up calibration instructions, they seem a bit daunting at first, but when you've done it once you'll realize it's no big deal at all.

I'm probably going to add a few commands to the app (dedicated stabilizer command is one of them), but I need to get a few things out of the way first.

The latest version of the app is attached, as well as the instructions.

Post your results and good luck! BTW, what material are you going to use? I still think rubber would be ideal.

[intealls]

Thanks for posting the png, intealls.

Don't use that png for creating the cutout! Download the app and create a calibrated printout. Also, that png has got a very low resolution. The app generates images with much higher res, which makes for more exact printouts.

[symphonic1985]

I got the program to work on my computer at work (Ubuntu) where I have access to a printer (and supplies!) I printed on some card but I need to get the calibration right - I didn't have a ruler with me at the office.

Later today I'll try again and see if I can make the printer work! Any tips for the cutting - how careful do you really need to be?

[elef]

Don't use that png for creating the cutout! Download the app and create a calibrated printout. Also, that png has got a very low resolution. The app generates images with much higher res, which makes for more exact printouts.

What do you mean by calibrated? As in calibrating the printer? I'm not sure if that's worth the hassle.

[intealls]

I got the program to work on my computer at work (Ubuntu) where I have access to a printer (and supplies!) I printed on some card but I need to get the calibration right - I didn't have a ruler with me at the office.

Later today I'll try again and see if I can make the printer work! Any tips for the cutting - how careful do you really need to be?

If the holes fit too snugly, try increasing the rec size. I think they're 14.0 mm in size in the last configuration. My cutting technique is not very good, but my cut sheets fit pretty good over the kb anyway. So I don't think you need to be that careful.

[intealls]

What do you mean by calibrated? As in calibrating the printer? I'm not sure if that's worth the hassle.

You could try this attached image, there is no correction, so if your printer prints exactly what your computer tells it, it should fit nicely. The resolution is 400 px/cm.

Also, a warning. If you're on a slow computer, don't open this image in your browser, save it and open it in some other app.

[elef]

Thanks for the higher res png, I have downloaded it.
The first G80-3000 order fell through (the seller didn't have it in stock after all and cancelled my order after confirming it), but I ordered again from a different seller so hopefully it's on its way by now.
I'll let you know if I decide to do this and try the rubber sheet.

[CeeSA]

here is my first very simple try to avoid the noise from bottom out:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:14621