Author Topic: Keyboard layout differences  (Read 4349 times)

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Offline Korg

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Keyboard layout differences
« on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 18:23:42 »
Just a question I'd like to throw out to the geekhack massive, why do different countries use different keyboard layouts?

Have done a bit of a "blokes" search on the web, i.e. not a very intensive search, and have been unable to come up with a definitive answer.

How did it come about that one country got to decide upon a keyboard layout and another changed/set out its own?

Where was it agreed that a return key should be just one row in length, and yet another group of people thought, whoa, we need at least two rows for that baby?

I can understand the difference in key placement for different languages, but lets take English as an example, why does the US have a different layout to the UK? (ANSI/ISO)

Cant we get a universal layout?

My apologies if the answer is obvious, or maybe it's just a history/stubborness thing, as in, which side of the road do you drive on?

Offline ajx

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 19:08:32 »
Quote
why do different countries use different keyboard layouts?
because we got as many languages as countries around the world
that includes specifities for each tongue
we commonly use accents (i am from France btw)
moreover, since 1860, azerty is a specific standard based on qwerty writing machine
well, i did test on qwerty ansi keyboard and that s more fed up me then actually anything else
personnaly i think ansi keyboard sucks, iso is way better (yes i am european lol)

Offline theferenc

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 20:04:29 »
The ISO enter key makes me insane. I agree that ANSI sucks though, which is why I use UNIX.

ajx, Korg quite clearly stated he understands the differences for different languages, so that was a particularly unhelpful reply. Also, AZERTY is horrid, by the way. Just look how little the home row keys are used (something like 30%, if I remember correctly). That is clearly a poorly laid out keyboard. If nothing else, the top alpha row and the home row should be swapped, since the top row is used over half the time.

As far as the UK/US differences, I think it's political as much as it is practical.
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Offline Tony

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 21:23:59 »
I use Colemak layout. For occasional special characters, I think I can use Qwerty or AltGr key to type them.

All Qwerty - Qwertz - Azerty keyboard are obsolette in term of home key usage (30% perhaps) and finger travel distance.

Here is the Colemak layout, which put most used keys to the home row, while retaining ZXCV-QWAHBM for frequent copy-paste hotkeys.



Colemak or Dvorak use home keys 60-75% of the time, and your fingers travels 30% less than Qwerty.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 February 2011, 21:26:33 by Tony »
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Offline quadibloc

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 23:46:55 »
Quote from: Korg;290959
Just a question I'd like to throw out to the geekhack massive, why do different countries use different keyboard layouts?
Well, there are several different answers to this question, depending on which question you're asking.

Japan and Korea use special keyboard layouts, because their keyboards need extra keys to allow convenient switching of modes for the Input Method Editors (IMEs) used for their languages.

Germany uses QZERTY... and France uses AZERTY... because these were traditional arrangements of keys for typewriters in their countries. (Belgium and Portugal also used unusual keyboard arrangements, but these haven't survived into the computer age.) Obviously, too, depending on what language you're using, you will need the appropriate accented letters. Even in Britain, there's a difference - you need the British pound sign on your keyboard, just as much as people need dollar signs in the U.S..

As for ANSI versus ISO: ISO is an international standard, which is why it is used for keyboards in many countries. As well, it offers an extra key on the keyboard, allowing people to use more characters directly when typing.

Why doesn't the U.S. also use the ISO layout?

The ISO layout places a key between the letter Z and the left-hand shift key. Also, it places three keys, instead of two, between the letter L and the Enter key. This means that the ISO layout, unlike the ANSI layout, puts these very important keys in different, harder-to-reach, positions than the left-hand shift key and the carriage return key had on electric typewriters.

The original IBM PC keyboard was similar to the ISO keyboard in these respects, and there was a great deal of annoyance on the part of typists in offices that were using the IBM PC. This eventually led to the keyboard of the IBM Personal Computer AT resolving those issues - but now the backspace key was moved one position further to the right.

The ANSI layout of the Model M keyboard finally resolved all the issues, providing a design that largely matched a typewriter keyboard.

Since typewriter keyboards in Europe, as well, originally didn't have as many keys as computer keyboards do now, it does perplex me that, even if an extra key is needed in European countries, that some other way of accommodating it, resulting in a keyboard more closely resembling the ANSI layout, had not been used.

Why the ANSI keyboard standardization effort went the way it did, however, is a question for which I don't have an answer.

Here, though, is the perfection - even beyond that of the Model M - despite making room for both the extra international key, and two Windows shift keys, and the Windows menu key - that I wish the world would all agree on:



Some of the rationale of this design is explained more fully at the bottom of this page on my web site. Note that I use the convention of marking the Windows keys with a diamond rather than raising any issues by using a trademark in my illustrations.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 February 2011, 00:30:04 by quadibloc »

Offline manfaux

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 07 February 2011, 00:56:12 »
wow quadibloc just taught me a lesson there. Thanks for the info.

I find interesting that different Asian countries are adopting different keyboard layouts: The Chinese and the Korean opted to go with the ANSI layout while the Japanese is sticking with the ISO.

10 years ago all keyboards from China were made with that BIGass Enter from ripster's picture, but today everything is just standard ANSI . (probably because the Chinese were making so many boards for the US and they decided to make things easier for themselves. )

Offline alec

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 07 February 2011, 01:34:32 »
Quote from: ripster;291079
I think it's because foreigners have clumsy right pinkies.

haha, my A4tech right here uses the BIGass one
pinky is very comfortable
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Offline ajx

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 07 February 2011, 07:26:16 »
Quote from: theferenc;290995
The ISO enter key makes me insane. I agree that ANSI sucks though, which is why I use UNIX.

ajx, Korg quite clearly stated he understands the differences for different languages, so that was a particularly unhelpful reply. Also, AZERTY is horrid, by the way. Just look how little the home row keys are used (something like 30%, if I remember correctly). That is clearly a poorly laid out keyboard. If nothing else, the top alpha row and the home row should be swapped, since the top row is used over half the time.

As far as the UK/US differences, I think it's political as much as it is practical.

sorry i misunderstood him
well, what you said its correct, azerty feels awfull for usual qwerty users same as we do for qwerty

Offline bugfix

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 07 February 2011, 13:43:29 »
Quote from: ajx;291153
, azerty feels awfull for usual qwerty users same as we do for qwerty


azerty feels awkward for every sane person...
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Offline ch_123

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Keyboard layout differences
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 07 February 2011, 13:58:03 »
With the numbers in the shifted position on the top row, the AZERTY layout transcends being awkward for new users, and lands quite firmly in the realms of really terrible design.