Help calibrating 30" S-IPS monitor

[stuiees]

As the topic suggests I need help calibrating my new monitor. I have been messing around with gamma, contrast, brightness and digital vibrance so far. I have gone to lagom to try to eye it out, which helped lot. Does anyone have any other suggestions I could use?  I don't really want to buy a colorimeter if I don't have to (someone willing to lend me theirs for a fee?!). Anyway everyone here is always super friendly helpful and knowledgeable so I thought it couldn't hurt to ask. Thanks in advance for your help.

[instantkamera]

buy a colorimeter. If it aint done in hardware, you might as well eyeball it and call it a day.

[Arc'xer]

It's best to use a colorimeter especially for a monitor like yours. But if you don't have access to one. You can get an ICC profile.

[kps]

I used to use SuperCal/.

[stuiees]

Thanks for the replies  I was about get the Dell u3011 also, but because I game a lot I decided to go with the older 3007wfp-hc due to the fact it has one of the lowest input lagg times of 30" panels and I won't be hooking it up to anything other than my pc.  Ripster, does your i1 suppost wide gamut displays?  I have read mixed things about it regarding that. I may just get a spyder3 express those seem pretty cheap and should work well enough for me (no photo editing/design work etc.).

[stuiees]

It's best to use a colorimeter especially for a monitor like yours. But if you don't have access to one. You can get an ICC profile.

Thanks! I will try his profile when I get home.

[stuiees]

I used to use SuperCal/.

Thank you, I will also be trying this.

[instantkamera]

Given a decent device, software is the key to unlocking the power of a colorimeter. Get the cheapest spyder, and use dispcalGUI/argyllCMS. It's free software that will allow for far better calibration than anything the spyder comes with. ColorEyes (the makers of a non-free, but excellent, calibration suite recommend the spyder 3 for wide-gamut displays, and they seem to know what they are doing.)

[stuiees]

Given a decent device, software is the key to unlocking the power of a colorimeter. Get the cheapest spyder, and use dispcalGUI/argyllCMS. It's free software that will allow for far better calibration than anything the spyder comes with. ColorEyes (the makers of a non-free, but excellent, calibration suite recommend the spyder 3 for wide-gamut displays, and they seem to know what they are doing.)

Thanks for that tip. I don't trust my colorblind eyes for sh*t. I'll buy a spyder3 and be done with it.

[typo]

ripster, how do you get zooey deschanel into those poses? i can't find a picture of her like that anywhere lol.

[keyboardlover]

ripster, how do you get zooey deschanel into those poses?

I assume it takes a lot of coaxing. Actually no, just wine and roofies.

[typo]

i hope he reads this. i guess i could pm him. i'd like that in my desktop rotation. haha i bet everyone would. that is just a cool pose. wine and roofies? maybe photoshop and plugins lol.
i thought she was even cooler when i got both "she and him" cd's. it's the bangs.

[cheeseds]

This should do you its an album of calibration images as put together by one of my friends for his 2 Sony GDM-FW900

[isp]

love da eyeone display2

[dissident]

Along with keyboards, this forum should have a display section. Reason being, a good monitor is another one of those things that tends to get overlooked by many, just like a good keyboard.
 I happen to be looking at both monitors and keyboards lately trying to find good bang for the buck. Probably gonna wait for elite to bring out their new boards, but on the monitor front, I have a Samsung 2333T PVA panel and a Dell 2311 IPS panel both coming on tuesday. Looking forward to comparing the differences.

Monitors and keyboards have a lot in common. Different key types (buckling, mechanical, rubber dome, etc) versus different panels (TN, PVA, IPS, etc) , people who don't know the differences or will laugh when a person spends such and such just to get a particular model. Yeah sure there are busy forums out there to get monitor info but a monitor section would supplement a keyboard section nicely.

[keyb_gr]

Along with keyboards, this forum should have a display section. Reason being, a good monitor is another one of those things that tends to get overlooked by many, just like a good keyboard.

How do people overlook something that they're staring at most of the time? :?

(That one was too hard to resist, sorry.)

Monitors and keyboards have a lot in common. Different key types (buckling, mechanical, rubber dome, etc) versus different panels (TN, PVA, IPS, etc) , people who don't know the differences or will laugh when a person spends such and such just to get a particular model.

...and quality differences "under the hood" which are not immediately visible. Keycaps here, electrolytics there.

I'd say monitor awareness is far greater than keyboard awareness though. Just about any old-time computer geek will tell you that a good monitor is worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if a number of folks here had started their journey into quality peripherals with one.

We haven't had a lot of monitor-related traffic here lately. Much more going on in terms of music and audio equipment.

[itlnstln]

OK, so I got my new monitors, so over my vacation, I decided to get a colorometer.  Using instantkamera's advice, I bought the cheapest Spyder3 I could find (thanks, Amazon Prime), and decided to use dispcalGUI.  Well, let's just say that I went back to the Spyder3Express software, and with a little handiwork, I calibrated both my work monitors.  After doing so, it's easy to tell that there is definitely some black magic involved in display-making, because even after the calibration, they still looked a little different from one another.  I tweaked the color settings on each of the monitors, so now they look pretty close.  So two things:

1.)  Eye-balling calibration is not a good substitute for real calibration.

2.)  Does anyone have recommendations for calibration software (I have the hardware)?  DispCalGUI is hard to use (for my noobness), and I need something that can calibrate multiple monitors.  I had to do some trickery to get it to work with Spyder3express.

And as instantkamera mentioned, Spyder3 (Express, anyway) is not good calibration software.  Even my noob ass could see that.

[instantkamera]

ColorEyes Display Pro

Widely considered the best proprietary calibration software. Works with many devices.

They sell a bundle with the spyder3, so it should work well with your device, and to be sure, they offer a demo:

http://www.integrated-color.com/productdemo/demo.html

Hopefully, that works for you. I must say that calibrating two screens to be used simultaneously is not an easy task, you have a lot of variables getting in the way of EXACT matching. Sorry to hear dispcalgui/argyllCMS wasnt your bag.

[Fwiffo]

My understanding is that colorimeters don't work well with wide gamut monitors, even in sRGB mode (most of the newer 30" S-IPS displays are wide gamut), unless they're set up with filters for a particular panel. Spectrophotometers work (and are better and more versatile generally), but are much more expensive.

That's part of the frustration that's kept me from getting a new monitor recently.

[itlnstln]

DispcalGUI is very powerful software, and once I get more familiar with what I'm doing, I will definitely jump on it.  It's just a little daunting for noobs.  I'll check out ColorEyes.  Thanks for the help.

[instantkamera]

ColorEyes' testing indicates that the spyder3 is suited for wide-gamut displays, but I wouldnt know since I avoid those displays for that (and other) reasons.

http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/spyder3.html

[Fwiffo]

My i-One seems to work fine on my Dell U3011.  The factory calibration was set to EyePopping Contrast/Brightness/Color.

Set it to the sRGB preset (and calibrate it for that profile) if you don't want to make your life a living hell.

[woody]

... Dell U3011 ...

Any nit-picking on non-uniformness and slow to-DVI switch time?

[woody]

Might had to do with transport and bezel realigning.

The latency I meant is when switching back from some other input to DVI - I've seen cited times in the range of 7 seconds. Could you verify that?

[woody]

I'm busy looking at the awesomeness of Zooey Deschanel right now.

Which Chanel is she on?

BTW, I give a ff about switching times.

[woody]

Single monitor, multiple sources. Not necessarily PCs.

I am keeping an eye on the U2711, U3011, PA271W and PA301W. Still can't decide.

[Surly73]

If both the PA series and the Dell's are in your budget, I'm not sure what the debate is.  PA series all the way, although the 30" is too new to be proven.

[woody]

If both the PA series and the Dell's are in your budget, I'm not sure what the debate is.  PA series all the way, although the 30" is too new to be proven.

While I generally agree ... here it goes:

PA301W yet to show in shops.

U2711 has the plethora of inputs that could make me happy and free precious space - DP, DVI, HDMI, VGA, component and composite.

U3011 lacks composite.

PA271W only DP, DVI and VGA.

PA301W just DP and DVI.


Worst of all, here U2711 is exactly 1/2 the price of PA271W.

[Surly73]

While I generally agree ... here it goes:

PA301W yet to show in shops.

U2711 has the plethora of inputs that could make me happy and free precious space - DP, DVI, HDMI, VGA, component and composite.

U3011 lacks composite.

PA271W only DP, DVI and VGA.

PA301W just DP and DVI.


Worst of all, here U2711 is exactly 1/2 the price of PA271W.

I didn't realize you were shopping for a display based exclusively on the inputs.  If you spend all of your time looking at the back, then things can get a lot cheaper

Seriously, though, a common mistake most people make is dwelling solely on the panel.  Sure, the panel is a big part of the picture quality but there's more to a great display than just a panel.  The NEC PA series is a professional display system with integrated hardware LUTs offering all kinds of calibration and correction options which the Dells don't have.

For instance, my NEC 2490 has active uniformity control (called ColorComp at the time it was made).  The panel is scanned at the factory and a compensation is coded into the LUT system to make the panel uniform.  With it off I see some slightly darker or lighter spots, some slightly rose tinted spots etc...  With it on it's a perfect field of grey/white (and it is also VERY close to colorimeter calibrated out of the box with Colorcomp on).  That is the kind of thing that really makes a display stand out, and you usually need to go to Nec, Eizo, Lacie and the like to find it.

[Surly73]

Yeah but then I'd have to learn what a LUT is.

Plus I saved enough not buying a NEC/Eizo to pay for my entire Sandy Bridge build.

I'm not knocking anyone's choice, just saying that there's more to look at than things like g-to-g response time and the number of inputs, that's all.    A lot of people will get all wound up about nothing but the panel technology or input lag and not look at anything else.  The panel needs top notch electronics to drive it to really make it shine.

[NamelessPFG]

I don't think he's talking about switching the input port in use (say, going from dual-link DVI to HDMI or VGA), but the sort of input lag that looks like a delayed response, like your mouse cursor and keystrokes are lagging behind. Really sucks for gaming, and yet a lot of HDTVs suffer from it. (Including the ones at the uni game room...and people are playing fighting games on them!)

Thankfully, my old CRTs don't have that problem at all, at least not nearly to an extent that any human could possibly notice.

[NamelessPFG]

It didn't seem like that in his latest post, but going a few posts back, the "single monitor, multiple sources" remark suggests that.

While I've never encountered a display that took more than three seconds to actually switch inputs (including some models infamous for input lag), seven seconds is no big deal.

[woody]

I didn't realize you were shopping for a display based exclusively on the inputs.

No, everything has it's weighting in the decision. But I keep a TV just for the inputs and it would be nice freeing up the space it takes.

The NEC PA series is a professional display system with integrated hardware LUTs offering all kinds of calibration and correction options which the Dells don't have.

Have been following them since their announcement (long before being commercially available). Before I wouldn't consider Dell at all, but now their price combined with inputs is tempting.

What the Dell lacks heavily for me is the uniformity compensation, and I am not sure how good their scaler is and whether it'd choke on some input mode timings. Also, I am using IPS NEC for 4 years and appreciating it's good internals.

The last straw is the pixel pitch of the 27 inchers - bit scared of it. So, until I feel impulse to buy, there is no clear winner yet and I will just wait.

In the meantime, I found this, so I will just collect some more random bits and pieces.

[woody]

Plus I saved enough not buying a NEC/Eizo to pay for my entire Sandy Bridge build.

There is some wisdom contained. PA271W will cost me the equivalent of $1940. PA301W not yet sold here. Versus $960 for U2711.

[woody]

I still haven't figured out why lag in changing inputs is a big deal.

Lag of second is okay, but 7 seconds is like eternity.
Consider working on something and checking it's output periodically - with once or twice per minute this will drive me crazy. I think I saw PIP or something, but I already forgot. Gonna take my pills and check again.

If it were just switching input and playing PS3, for example, then I agree 7 seconds are just a minor annoyance.

[Surly73]

I still haven't figured out why lag in changing inputs is a big deal.

You'd have to be a big time input changer to care.  I have one input connected to my 2490 so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I also haven't noticed any input lag worth mentioning on it either, which is what I was referring to in my post.  

People on gamer forums get all bent out of shape about input lag.  Some of them get into this mythical land of confusion where they think that they can somehow get to fractions of a single frame, when the display pretty much presents full frames instead of scanning like a CRT.  One frame is about as good as it's going to get on digital displays, folks...

I'm also pretty skeptical of the claims that people make about 1/60 of a second of lag when they're playing games online with people all over the world on the Internet.  There's a HELL of a lot more lag on the Internet than there is between my GPU and my monitor.

At any rate, I had great CRTs before (GDM-F520) and I don't miss them since getting my 2490.

[woody]

when the display pretty much presents full frames instead of scanning like a CRT

LCDs are updated in a raster as well.

[Surly73]

There is some wisdom contained. PA271W will cost me the equivalent of $1940. PA301W not yet sold here. Versus $960 for U2711.

Yes and no.

As discussed in another thread here, I'd rather have a one to two generation old CPU and top notch peripherals.  The peripherals interface what's inside the computer to the world we live in and it colours the entire experience.  It's the same with people buying flashy amplifiers and sound processors when better speakers (or headphones) would improve their experience more even if they used a 20 year old amplifier.  Same with putting good tires on your car - regardless of what car it is the tires are the only interface to the road - don't cheap out.

It is true, though, that the NEC/Eizo/Lacie product lines are professional product lines.  They are made for individuals and companies who make money from their displays - usually lots of it.  They aren't made for gamers who like to see perfectly untinted grey in WoW.  These displays don't necessarily last any longer than any others.  Sometimes they have a shorter service life, although they perform much better during that life.  Buying a pro display and expecting it to last forever because you paid more isn't a good bet.  The target market for these displays probably cycle the hardware out every 3 years at least and move on to something else which is needed for their business.  I do some colour critical work, although not professionally at this time, so the pro system's hardware LUTs, active uniformity correction, active luminance control etc... are wonderful features to have.  I saw a Coolscan in one of Ripster's pictures, so I assume he's also doing colour critical work too.

At any rate, I started posting to point out that the pro grade display systems do have features, functionality and performance which comes along with the price tag.  You listed both PA and Dell U series displays as being in consideration.  If you've got the money for both, just drop the Us altogether.  I see so many people ranting away about how Dell XYZ has the same panel as NEC ABC so the cheaper Dell would be exactly the same.   Wrong...  You do get something for your money.  Whether it's worth it or in budget is up to the buyer, of course.  Me?  I'm not rich but I'll sacrifice something else to have a great display.  Granted, the fact that you're shopping for an IPS-based display already puts you in the top quartile compared to the average consumer.

[Surly73]

LCDs are updated in a raster as well.

Yes, but they are not scanned sequentially at a speed equal to the frame rate.  They display 60fps but update in a time period much faster than 1/60 of a second.  They also do not flicker at 60Hz like a CRT running at 60Hz because of this effect.