Okay, it seems I was wrong. Thermaltake Meka G1 is still the best Cherry MX Black

[The Solutor]

I use backspace WAY more than enter.

 
So when i speak about backlit keyboards you are all the best touch typist touch typists of the galaxy, now you need backspace so often, what kind of touch typist are you  ?

I also use |\ and right shift a LOT.

Even for a shell user the pipe key is used not more than most letters, on ansi keyboard this key is oversized just to use the pace wasted by the stupid ansi enter.

Right shift on SS is as wide as the left shift on ISO keyboards which is more than enough.

[canon.tk]

The big enter key, technically Return key, isn't needed anymore.  We don't need the extra space so we can apply more pressure to push a carriage anymore.  Went from Carriage Return to Return and now Enter.

ANSI is the best layout.

[Viper2]

On the other hand I prefer the black swicthes and to be honest rarely type on my Filco even though the G1 is not an ISO layout which I prefer.

Another win for the Meka G1!

[Chobopants]

So when i speak about backlit keyboards you are all the best touch typist touch typists of the galaxy, now you need backspace so often, what kind of touch typist are you  ?



Even for a shell user the pipe key is used not more than most letters, on ansi keyboard this key is oversized just to use the pace wasted by the stupid ansi enter.

Right shift on SS is as wide as the left shift on ISO keyboards which is more than enough.

I think you're confusing me with someone else. Please point me to where I said ANYTHING bad about backlit keyboards? It's one of my favorite features on my Macbooks. Hell, I kind of hate my Realforce because I can't see the keys in anything but pure sunlight and I like to at least glance at them once in a while when I play Starcraft if my hand gets off-position.

Also, I hit the right shift on the very left side, making it smaller would only **** me up. I need it the size that it is. The reason I sold the Leopold is, when hitting the right shift on the very left side, the Cherry stabilizers don't stabilize very well and it requires quite a bit more force to push the key down.

Re: backspace - I touch type QUITE well but I still make plenty of mistakes. I type rather quickly and make mistakes here and there. My WPM is so high because I can hit backspace so quickly.

[Viper2]

I think these videos put any concerns about the Thermaltake Meka G1's build quality to rest:


[video=youtube;VJGQBLRPX7I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJGQBLRPX7I&playnext=1&list=PL84EDFFCD34DF0E8E[/video]

[video=youtube;jV62woudTR4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV62woudTR4&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;JH3jbIU_iZ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH3jbIU_iZ0&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;c_6iR3iNaeA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_6iR3iNaeA&feature=related[/video]


Now let's see a Filco withstand that!

[RiGS]

SS got tested for truck abuse.
However thumbs up for the Meka G1!
Black switches are the best!

[mmmty]

I don't believe it. Noodles, take your Meka G1 outside and drive a car over it.

[The Solutor]

I think you're confusing me with someone else. Please point me to where I said ANYTHING bad about backlit keyboards?

 
Damn english with its usage of "you"...

"You" was intended as geeckhack users, in general.

[theferenc]

Um, Solutor, try to get your digs aimed at the correct people.

I'm the one that said touch typists generally don't need backlit keyboards, and I still stand by that. Touch typing doesn't mean you don't make a mistake. In fact, you can type exactly the keys you intended to type, but still use the backspace key extensively, simply due to changing the wording, for example.

Also, if you think people that spend their days in a shell all day use enter more than pipe, you sir are on crack. And not that clear on how a shell is used, really. Average pipeline for what I do is probably 7 commands. I know people where it's as high as 15. And that's counting single command execution lines, as well, such as cd or ls.

Besides, if you want to know how often you hit what keys, just use a key counter. For myself, backspace and pipe are both used a lot more than enter. Hell, most of my keys are used more than enter. That's a general conclusion I drew quite some time ago, after using a key counter for a week continuously.

Then again, I'm not the average typist. I spend most of my day writing C/C++ code or LaTeX source files. Sure, enter gets used, but less than most other keys.

[The Solutor]

Also, if you think people that spend their days in a shell all day use enter more than pipe, you sir are on crack.

FYI I use linux since the days of RH 5 or so, I'm a sysadmin and also a kernel contributors (although with just tiny things) and obviously I use the shell a lot even if I'm not a command line integralist.

And I can't really see how pipe can be used more than the enter key or more than than an average letter.

Unless you are used to write whole programs on a single line it's a key like another.

[HaveANiceDay]

Gentlemen!
I've got a large penis, and my keyboard is equally hard.

Thank you.

[theferenc]

Just count. For a pipeline of length 5, you have 4 pipes, a single enter. Enter should be one of the least used keys on your keyboard, honestly. At least, if you're doing it right.

[The Solutor]

I think I've never wrote a pipeline longer than three, so two pipes.

Btw often what I wrote needs corrections, refinements, change of parameters, so a single line wrote is usually recalled and reentered many times, so, as usual the most used keys are enter and the UP and LEFT cursor keys.

Often i use command lines written two years before just recalling them. Bash is nice and meant for lazy users, and I'm one of them.

[alaricljs]

for loops and pipes ftw.   I also have a tendency to not use enter much in VI, oddly enough I just paste a ton of empty lines in and navigate into them.

[theferenc]

Me too, but I didn't want to go there, assuming I would get called a troll or some such. Also, in emacs I tend to hit meta 1 0 0 ctrl-o, which gives me 100 blank lines to play with. Not sure how to do it, but I'm sure vi can do something similar.

[The Solutor]

assuming I would get called a troll or some such

We are just discussing, no need to call troll someone or to be called troll by someone.

[theferenc]

I wasn't actually implying you would. But considering I know how rarely I hit the enter key, and I know I'm abnormal in that regard, that would come across as...fishy. The only reason I even mentioned it was become someone else does the same thing, basically.

[BucklingSpring]

My first Cherry board was a Deck with MX Black. Still rock solid after about 6 years.
No pinging, ringing, failing stabilizers or dead leds.

[Viper2]

SS got tested for truck abuse.
However thumbs up for the Meka G1!
Black switches are the best!

Well I'm sure the Meka G1 would hold up to a truck as well.  I have owned the SS 6Gv2 and now own the Meka G1, and if anything, the Meka G1 is slightly more heavy duty and weighs a bit more than the SS 6Gv2.

[Viper2]

My first Cherry board was a Deck with MX Black. Still rock solid after about 6 years.
No pinging, ringing, failing stabilizers or dead leds.

Yeah, the Deck keyboards definitely look very solid and well built.  I think it's a bit odd that they get so much hate on these forums just because their keycap font is a bit unique and apparently some people have had an issue with their spacebars (which it seems can be easy fixed with a quick reset of the spacebar itself).

Again, Deck is another brand of keyboards that look better than Filco to me.

IMO, Filco = waaayyy overrated

[alaricljs]

Me too, but I didn't want to go there, assuming I would get called a troll or some such. Also, in emacs I tend to hit meta 1 0 0 ctrl-o, which gives me 100 blank lines to play with. Not sure how to do it, but I'm sure vi can do something similar.

Same number of key presses, but no chording:  y y 1 0 0 p  (yy - yank 1 line) (100p - paste 100 copies)

[The Solutor]

Again, Deck is another brand of keyboards that look better than Filco to me.

 
Well... esthetically Filcos are not that bad, wile Deck is just ugly but on everything else is not that hard doing better than filco.

Back to Deck was the first BL microswitch keyboard available and this is obviously a good thing but years and years of production w/o a single improvement is really a shame.

[theferenc]

Same number of key presses, but no chording:  y y 1 0 0 p  (yy - yank 1 line) (100p - paste 100 copies)

Thanks! It's always good to build up a library of equivalence between emacs and vi.

[daerid]

See, after hearing you explain yourself, Solutor, that makes sense why you use the enter key so much. Me, I'm a vim guy, so the only time I hit enter is when I need a newline in my code, or I enter a command in the terminal. I actually like typing, and never really got around to learning all of bash's shortcuts, so I generally type in all my commands by hand.

And yeah, I haven't had to look at my keyboard since Freshman year of high school (1994), but I still make plenty of mistakes here and there. So yeah, I pretty much hit that backspace key all the time.

[The Solutor]

See, after hearing you explain yourself, Solutor, that makes sense why you use the enter key so much. Me, I'm a vim guy, so the only time I hit enter is when I need a newline in my code, or I enter a command in the terminal.

I use vi/vim only when I'm forced to, as it is universal on unix world, other than that my preferred editor is mcedit (the one integrated in mc). I opened emacs maybe one time in my life, the first time I used linux back in '97 or so, at the time I not even understood what was its purpose (i still have doubts anyway ) and i never reopened it.

I think computers and software should be tailored to fit the users needs, not viceversa so I don't like anything which is purposely cryptic like vi, emacs, or even autocad.

I actually like typing

I like it also, but not at the point of writing something unneded, the end and the means should be never inverted.

I think that

[spitfire6000]

I was myself looking for a black switch board, my first one of its kind...and I ended up settling on the filco ninja linear black switch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Filco-FKBN104ML-EFB2-Majestouch-NINJA-Black-Switch-/250842097850?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3a675aa8ba

Got it off amazon, for 160...but i think its well worth it. Its got some good upgrades to the majestouch-2 which is itself a A+++ board.

[woody]

US ANSI works well for Unix users... I need my big ass pipe key:  |\  !

Aye, that key is critical for *nix work.

Careful, Chobopants. That might downgrade the HHKB from the beard-approved position #1.

[alaricljs]

Me, I'm a vim guy, so the only time I hit enter is when I need a newline in my code, or I enter a command in the terminal. I actually like typing, and never really got around to learning all of bash's shortcuts, so I generally type in all my commands by hand.

By default bash's shortcuts are emacs style... you can set them to vi style with:  set -o vi

[spitfire6000]

I do not believe the person who ran their keyboard over with the car...your switches are ruined. They will NOT last even 20 million key strokes. Most likely, you put cracks in a good amount of them.

What does running over a keyboard with a car prove anyways? Thats like hitting a television set with a baseball bat and saying see? it still works, so its better than product B and C.

If a filco can look and feel better than the thermalake and thus be a better keyboard, it's capacity of being roadkill is inconsequential.

Also on a side note: you definitely ruined that keyboard. It will never last 50 million keystroes or even 20 million, since you almost definitely cracked some of the switches in their plastic parts. At the very least you bent them, which will equal bad keyboard down the road if not already.

[Chobopants]

Careful, Chobopants. That might downgrade the HHKB from the beard-approved position #1.

Haha. As a vi user the HHKB is PRETTY good but it definitely feels more customized for emacs (though it's pretty close). At work I share my time equally between vi/iterm and Cocoa applications. While emacs keybinds are supported by default in most OS X text fields, not all programs support emacs/vi commands and sometimes you just need those damn arrow keys.

In vi you can just hit o/O to start a new line and jam around. J to join them and do the opposite. But yeah, what was said above. If you know you need * blank lines just do something like:

o ESC yy *p

and you'll get *+1 blank lines in your buffer. As always there's about 10 different ways to do anything you want to do.

Also, claiming that you're a *nix guy and are still skeptical about the uses of both vi and emacs makes me skeptical that you're actually a *nix guy. The buffer editing powers that that vi/emacs grant you put you on another plane of control that I haven't seen any other pure text editor accomplish to this day.

How powerful is emacs? Just watch this video of a guy editing video in it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vumR5Hcz7s

[theferenc]

As they say, emacs is a better operating system, but UNIX has a better editor.

[woody]

As quoted in my post, all the friendly poke was in the direction that HHKB has regular pipe [|\].

Also, claiming that you're a *nix guy and are still skeptical about the uses of both vi and emacs makes me skeptical that you're actually a *nix guy.

Is this "you" targeted at me or in general?

[daerid]

I believe that was targeted at The Solutor.  Regardless, I'm just happy that there are plenty of keyboard's in ANSI layout.

[The Solutor]

Also, claiming that you're a *nix guy and are still skeptical about the uses of both vi and emacs makes me skeptical that you're actually a *nix guy.

 
Why you should label people ?

What is a *nix guy ? And is good to be a *nix guy ?

Personally I'm proud to be a flexible person, I use Solaris as OS2,  win311 as beos, as any mobile OS.

And being flexible mean that I did some world first, no matter on what OS i was.


Vi, emacs or whatever are just instruments not football teams, treat them consequently.

You feel good with emacs ? God for you. I like something other ? Good for me.

There's no conflict.

How powerful is emacs?

Surely is powerful enough to edit the user preferences (not intended as some .ini files in some home directories)

[Chobopants]

As quoted in my post, all the friendly poke was in the direction that HHKB has regular pipe [|\].


Is this "you" targeted at me or in general?

At Solutor.

[Viper2]

What does running over a keyboard with a car prove anyways?

It proves that the keyboard is damn durable since it looks fine and still works afterward.

If a filco can look and feel better than the thermalake and thus be a better keyboard, it's capacity of being roadkill is inconsequential.

That's the whole point.  The Filco Cherry MX Black and Steelseries 6Gv2 most likely have identical innards.  Therefore, since IMO the Thermaltake Meka G1 clearly feels superior to the 6Gv2 (most reviews comparing the two confirm this as well), it is most likely superior to the Filco as well.  And which keyboard looks better is a matter of personal opinion.

Also on a side note: you definitely ruined that keyboard. It will never last 50 million keystroes or even 20 million, since you almost definitely cracked some of the switches in their plastic parts. At the very least you bent them, which will equal bad keyboard down the road if not already.

What's with all this "you" stuff?  I didn't make the videos and I would never run over my keyboard with a car or intentionally try to damage it in any way.

[daerid]

That's the whole point.  The Filco Cherry MX Black and Steelseries 6Gv2 most likely have identical innards.

[*emphasis added]

To quote John Gruber: Claim Chowder

I find that hard to believe, unless you can show some substantial evidence to back that up.

[spitfire6000]

My bad viperz, i was in a rush didnt have time to see that you werent the one who made that video, although awesome it was.

The filco ninja mx black isnt the same inside as the steelseries.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Filco-FKBN104ML-EFB2-Majestouch-NINJA-Black-Switch-/250842097850?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3a675aa8ba
"Double layers is adopted for a new board. Through a hole of each switch has been firmly soldered.
With this, it can release any excess load or vibration that you make when you type in to a board not only to a metal plate inside.
It enables you to enjoy a better typing feel!
We also brought the rate of its data transfer for PC to the highest which provides you faster response.
This function as well as N-key rollover meet for the professional gamers."

Also "A completely dedicated electronic circuitry to this model !
On our models a diode is soldered on the printed circuit for every key switch to prevent from countercurrency."

Asian - translation, but it gets the point across. I don't think the steelseries has those new features.

[The Solutor]

You know that most part of those "improvements" are just marketing BS ?

Keyboards are not cars, when you have the same core component (aka the same switch) almost anything else are just details, some of them noticeable, some of them pointless.

No one will ever notice if the pcb is dual layered or single layered during normal typing, but most users will notice a poor keycap or an unpleasant sound.

[spitfire6000]

You know that most part of those "improvements" are just marketing BS ?

Keyboards are not cars, when you have the same core component (aka the same switch) almost anything else are just details, some of them noticeable, some of them pointless.

No one will ever notice if the pcb is dual layered or single layered during normal typing, but most users will notice a poor keycap or an unpleasant sound.

Very true, most people will never notice, then again most people will never buy a filco.

Did you know that most people who bought the razer blackwidow ultimate think its an amazing keyboard? Yea can u imagine? The razer was my first mechanical board, and within the first 5 minutes of opening it...I noticed that some of the keys were busted and mushy. Most people never noticed, and hence razer gets away with another robbery.

Razer and thermalake advertise 1000hz polling rate on their keyboards. Now THAT right there is pure marketing BS. Most people dont know that the 1000hz refresh rate does absolutely nothing but slow down ur cpu.

If the new features on the filco ninja are just marketing hype, at least it is done in a classy tasteful way. But either way it is not proven that they are in deed just hype, for all we know its real.

[Viper2]

Wow, why can't people on this forum accept the fact that Thermaltake Meka G1 may in fact be the best Cherry MX Black keyboard in existence at the moment?  It's as though they cannot fathom that any keyboard could be better than their beloved Filco.  Heck, if Filco had created the Meka G1, many people on here would probably be raving about how great it is.

Anyways, whatever, if you all think the Filco Cherry MX Black is better than the Meka G1, that's fine.  I know with near certainty that the Thermaltake Meka G1 is the superior keyboard.  It would take a heck of a design difference from the Steelseries 6Gv2 for the Filco to beat the Meka G1, and I highly doubt the Filco is that much different than the 6Gv2.

Anyways, I am done discussing this topic.  It's been fun.

[The Solutor]

Very true, most people will never notice, then again most people will never buy a filco.

Did you know that most people who bought the razer blackwidow ultimate think its an amazing keyboard? Yea can u imagine? The razer was my first mechanical board, and within the first 5 minutes of opening it...I noticed that some of the keys were busted and mushy. Most people never noticed, and hence razer gets away with another robbery.

 
The rule is always the same, never buy the cheapest item in a category,  never buy the most expensive or the much hyped one.

No matter where you look, BW for mainstream keyboards, Filco or Topre for the elitist ones, Asus for mainboards, iphones for smartphones, pioneer for car stereos and so on.

You will end always with an inferior, product, or in the best case with an overpriced one.

Razer and thermalake advertise 1000hz polling rate on their keyboards. Now THAT right there is pure marketing BS. Most people dont know that the 1000hz refresh rate does absolutely nothing but slow down ur cpu.

To be honest while both are mainly marketing BS, at least the 1000Hz polling rate is a true technical feature, while a double sided PCB is just a build detail which frankly has more drawbacks than advantages.

If the new features on the filco ninja are just marketing hype, at least it is done in a classy tasteful way.

The clean look of filcos is likely the only not debatable feature of those boards, i never criticized it but is not enough to put them definitely out of the crowd.

[theferenc]

Wow, why can't people on this forum accept the fact that Thermaltake Meka G1 may in fact be the best Cherry MX Black keyboard in existence at the moment?  It's as though they cannot fathom that any keyboard could be better than their beloved Filco.  Heck, if Filco had created the Meka G1, many people on here would probably be raving about how great it is.

Anyways, whatever, if you all think the Filco Cherry MX Black is better than the Meka G1, that's fine.  I know with near certainty that the Thermaltake Meka G1 is the superior keyboard.  It would take a heck of a design difference from the Steelseries 6Gv2 for the Filco to beat the Meka G1, and I highly doubt the Filco is that much different than the 6Gv2.

Anyways, I am done discussing this topic.  It's been fun.

I don't think it's that they refuse to accept it may be. In fact, I think most of them are willing to concede it might very well be. But you're basing that assessment on assumptions, for which you have no proof. That's the problem people are having.

Personally, if it has Cherry switches of any kind, I think it sucks. That doesn't mean it does. It just means it sucks for me. The Meka G1 is the best Cherry MX black keyboard *for you*. And that's awesome, I'm glad you found one. But don't confuse your opinions with facts, and don't assume your opinions are shared.

[daerid]

Wow, why can't people on this forum accept the fact that Thermaltake Meka G1 may in fact be the best Cherry MX Black keyboard in existence at the moment?  It's as though they cannot fathom that any keyboard could be better than their beloved Filco.  Heck, if Filco had created the Meka G1, many people on here would probably be raving about how great it is.

Anyways, whatever, if you all think the Filco Cherry MX Black is better than the Meka G1, that's fine.  I know with near certainty that the Thermaltake Meka G1 is the superior keyboard.  It would take a heck of a design difference from the Steelseries 6Gv2 for the Filco to beat the Meka G1, and I highly doubt the Filco is that much different than the 6Gv2.

Anyways, I am done discussing this topic.  It's been fun.

These are not FACTS. Nothing that anybody has argued here is FACT. Not you, nor I, nor anybody else. This is all OPINION. The concept of the "best" keyboard, the "superior" keyboard, that's all OPINION. It is based on personal preference. There is nothing here that is absolute.

Why can't YOU accept that?

[Shazb0t]

I have had both a Filco Cherry Black board and the 6GV2.  They do not feel the same.

[ethics-]

What I don't understand is how you can justify coming to a forum filled with keyboard enthusiasts, ask for their advice on which keyboard to get, disregard said advice completely, and then act like you have superior knowledge on the subject.

[ethics-]

Almost forgot this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

[RiGS]

I have had both a Filco Cherry Black board and the 6GV2.  They do not feel the same.

 

It seems you preferred the SS over the Filco.