Author Topic: Model m ping (Read 6710 times)

Retox · « **on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 16:04:15 »

I know that there is some anti-ping-thread sentiment here at GH, but I just got my model m in the mail. let me say first off that I absolutely love it..... with one exception.

After I release every keystroke there is a metallic pinging sound. I know that there have been some attempts to quiet this in the past such as greasing the spings and the bolt mod, but which one is the best.

Thanks to the community in advance for the help. The sound is driving me crazy.

tsangan · « **Reply #1 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 16:11:58 »

It can't be un-heard... DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN
[video=youtube;G-lN8vWm3m0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0[/video]

Tony · « **Reply #2 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 19:18:45 »

For a model M, every key ping. Louder than blues.

pitashen · « **Reply #3 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 19:21:59 »

OP, it seems you are the one who is "anti-ping." I, on the other hand, am one of those who live joyfully with the mechanical keyboards DESPITE the ping.

That being said, you might want to consider cherry switch boards if the ping bother you that much and you cannot find a way to eliminate it to your liking.

Retox · « **Reply #4 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 19:54:48 »

The day I opened the box and pressed all the keys, one at a time to make sure they were functional, I was not focused on anything other than the fact that it felt amazing (the model m is my first mechanical keyboard). After about four day with it though, I can't shake the feeling that it's a little bit sloppy and cheap. I spent some time wondering why I thought this despite the outstanding build quality and solid feel, then I narrowed it down to three reasons (again, this is only IMHO).

-wobbly spacebar with deep, plasticky note on depression (unfixable to my knowledge)
-sound of plastic jiggling when my fingers first hit the key (most likely due to two-piece keycap)
-Metal ping produced upon key release

Since I know that there is a fix for the third reason and the other two are really both unfixable and non-issues from my point of view, I chose to try to eliminate the ping. I don't see what's wrong with wanting to make my keyboard seem as high quality and satisying as possible to me, the owner.

Quarzac · « **Reply #5 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 19:58:48 »

Oddly enough, before I started using Cherry switches my incredibly pingy Model M didn't bother me. I went back to type on it today and found that I was missing keystrokes because I was only tapping some of the keys and the ping was much more noticeable because I was without it for so long.

Retox · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 20:01:45 »

hmmm... i've been missing keystrokes too. I feel myself being overcome with a strong urge to try lighter switches..... but I refuse to let this keyboard obsession bankrupt me.

Quarzac · « **Reply #7 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 20:09:09 »

Quote from: Retox;437651

hmmm... i've been missing keystrokes too. I feel myself being overcome with a strong urge to try lighter switches..... but I refuse to let this keyboard obsession bankrupt me.

It will bankrupt you. I found myself elated that I made $220-$230 of profit selling boards. Since then, I have spent $165 on keyboards. My profit is gone thanks to other expenses. Just let it happen.

Tony · « **Reply #8 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 20:09:19 »

The cheaper IBM model M already makes you crazy and unsatisfied.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #9 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 20:23:09 »

Flossing will eliminate some of the ping. I recommend it.

There are one-piece keys to be had. Is it worth buying another board for them? You decide.

Spacebars are a big problem, obviously. Why else all the different mechanisms and discussions?

I would love to find or make some sort of foam or fiber underpadding, but it would undoubtedly raise the activation force to an unacceptable level.

flyball · « **Reply #10 on:** Sun, 23 October 2011, 20:59:48 »

have you tried taking a placebo

Clickey · « **Reply #11 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 00:03:58 »

Buckling Springs are the pingiest, you can get an ALPS or POS cherry board for less than $40 shipped, so if you aren't liking the model M there are plenty of cheap alternatives. My recommend Acers for the best cost-performance ratio.

czarek · « **Reply #12 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 02:49:23 »

Bolt mod + Unicomp springs is the best ping killer. It also makes the keyboard slightly lighter.

Thinkpad Fan · « **Reply #13 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 04:38:50 »

OK, I'll stick my neck out and mention that the "ping" is a FEATURE not a Defect! If it bothers you, that's a misperception on your part. Kind of like "why did Chevrolet cheap out and put a manual transmission in this $70,000 Corvette! How cheap of them!"

The ping would seem to be part of the board's feedback mechanism - the auditory portion - which tells you that you have activated the previous key and you can move on to the next. Ripster just gave me a quote right out of the IBM literature to that effect, and it should be noted that a lot of people report speed improvements of 15-20% over "modern" boards, most that lack the ping. This leads to the next question - Is the ping truely needed to get the full "IBM effect" leading to higher speed, or is the tactile "triggering feel" of the keys sufficent on an IBM style M board without it? The designers of the M were IBM people - anybody ever hear of the Selectric typewritter?

As for cheap - back in "the Day" - that board you are typing on was a $3-400.00 Item - in 1980's dollars! Sorry if you somehow feel/hear cheap. You should open it up and look at it sometime - it's built like a tank compared to anything else here. TPF

And I agree with Ripster - the newer Unicomp boards are less "pingy". Thinkpad Fan

bootstrap · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 05:05:06 »

Quote from: flyball;437685

have you tried taking a placebo

Interesting idea. A placebo would mean another keyboard that feels exactly like a Model M EXCEPT with zero ping, and the experiment would have to be done on both keyboards - blindfolded of course. It will put the McRip Effect to the test.

Chaoticmass · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 10:04:33 »

I'm going to agree with Thinkpad Fan-- the ping is a feature!

IBM spent a lot of time working out how to get people typing faster on their typewriters over the years. Starting with their first electric typewriters IBM always touted the increased typing speeds and greater productivity their typewriters would deliver. The Selectrics earned a reputation for being preferred by the best typists because it allowed users to reach their fastest speeds. When IBM finally discontinued the Selectric and announced its replacement they couldn't disappoint all the loyal users with an inferior keyboard. What they used on the WheelWriter is basically a model M keyboard.

The result of IBM's quest to build a keyboard that typewriter users would love was the buckling spring.

spolia optima · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 11:58:42 »

You can call it a feature all you want, the ping is kind of irritating to me.

In my experience, it happens most on heavily used Ms... So I see it as a sign of wear and tear.

The bolt/floss mod is the best option, should eliminate it almost 100%.

jmw19 · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 24 October 2011, 14:30:14 »

The space bar plasticky noises can be quieted or eliminated by greasing the stabilizer;s contact points - both the bar's and the board's. A little dab of white lithium grease it all it takes, and it helps quite a bit.
My keyboard has one-piece keys, so I don't get the wobble or any noise from separate keycaps, but I get plenty of spring noise when keys return to rest. I've tried the Superfloss mod, and 14-15mm of floss in each spring does eliminate that, while leaving the click as the spring buckles. I found the floss on sale, 2 packs for $6, and white lithium grease is as cheap as they come, so you should be able to quiet things down for very little money, and maybe a couple hours for the flossing.

Thinkpad Fan · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 02:03:10 »

Like everything else, "Ping" is a matter of taste. The white Blue Label M13 IBM/Lexmark built in 1994 I 'm typing on right now has very little ping. Some of my older IBMs do have more - but they have noticably stronger springs, too. So it may be age, all right - the older boards simply have stronger, louder springs! But they feel sooo good!

A bigger question I want to try to answer is which type Model M is actually faster - and less fatiguing to type on at speed, for a long time. Older and stiffer - or newer and lighter. The ping is not a problem when the stereo/radio is turned up loud enough, by the way - and there is always headphones! And the $64,000 question - is the best Model M faster than the other keyboards available? If it is - and it is not any more fatiguing or hard on the hands - it's simply the World's Best Keyboard. Not that I'm an IBM Snob or anything........

In the near future I'm going to hook up a 4 USB connector and a large hotfile rack on my file cabinet next to my desk, so I can use the Model M that suits my mood that day and see what I can find out! TPF

Condoulo · « **Reply #19 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 03:05:40 »

I was just reading through this thread, and up until now I had not realized how pingy the original IBM Model M's were. About a month ago I had decided to order a Unicomp Customizer, and I've been using that as the main keyboard on my desktop for the past month, and after reading ripster's comment on how the Unicomps didn't have as loud of a ping, I decided to pull out the Model M I was using before (The 1390120 manufactured March 25, 1986) and give it a comparison, and it definitely was a lot pingier.

Telstar · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 11:06:30 »

Yes, it pings... but the feedback is basically perfect.
Been using my model M (1993 built that came with my first pc) for >15 years and still kicking.

Internetlad · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 13:22:31 »

when i'm typing at work, I want my keyboard to click, clack, ping and make as much noise as possible, so people KNOW i'm busy.

jaynoon · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 15:35:10 »

The main reason I don't use my bolt-modded Model M is because it still pings on every keypress. The ping drives me crazy, it makes the entire thing feel cheap, which is silly because every other aspect of the Model M feels so heavy-duty.

I'll try out this floss mod one of these days and see if I like it better.

Retox · « **Reply #23 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 17:02:27 »

thank you jaynoon... that's exactly what I was trying to say.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #24 on:** Tue, 25 October 2011, 17:03:06 »

The floss will fix you right up. Takes out the overtones without messing with much else.

I just flossed a 122-key terminal this morning and it was a chore. Beyond the fact that there were 20% more keys to do, after last time, I had stuffed my floss back into the package and so it was not as stiff and straight when I went to thread it into the springs. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

Oh well, better not get into trouble with mentioning that sort of thing in a family forum ......

Retox · « **Reply #25 on:** Wed, 26 October 2011, 19:06:44 »

Quote from: fohat.digs;439195

The floss will fix you right up. Takes out the overtones without messing with much else.

I just flossed a 122-key terminal this morning and it was a chore. Beyond the fact that there were 20% more keys to do, after last time, I had stuffed my floss back into the package and so it was not as stiff and straight when I went to thread it into the springs. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

Oh well, better not get into trouble with mentioning that sort of thing in a family forum ......

based on advice from this exact thread... I went ahead and flossed the keys on my model m. OH MY GOD, let me say right now that it could probably be considered one of the bigger successes in my technological career (a stick of failed RAM crippled my i7-950 build for about three months). But in all seriousness, the ping is completely gone and the tactile feedback is basically unscathed. I say basically because there are a few keys that feel a little bit heavier and less repsonsive, but I can go back and trim some floss off tomorrow once I recover from the chore that was flossing the whole 104 keys.

THANK YOU GEEKHACK... you may have my first born son and shape him into the ultimate chinese speaking keyboard ordering wizard if you wish.

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Author Topic: Model m ping (Read 6710 times)