Why are PBT keycaps so....

[wompwomp]

expensive...

Gosh darnit!

The only set I could find is $49.99 plus $10 for shipping. That's half the price of my keyboard itself just for little plastic peices!

[bloodygood]

Wait a minute, are you saying PBT is just plastic pieces? Then perhaps you should go for ABS then if the quality of the material isn't important enough to you. While yes I believe that the price should be lower, it depends on what you are getting. If I could get a set of custom color scheme 87 keys for 39.99 + shipping I would definitely do it for PBT keycaps. But at the moment the options appear to be $15 for 37 keys of many options for colors, and up for 87 key sets but those are all either black or white no other colors I have seen.

[alaricljs]

Wait... \KL is running an 87 PBT buy... nice shade of blue    not cheap tho.

[slueth]

I got em, that's like a dollar each keycap :0  Dyesub with sexy blues.  Most keycaps you can buy online are just lasered.

[pitashen]

PBT is more durable, a lot more. They also give you a more humble resonance of the keyboard noise (lower in tone), which I like. If none of the above matter to you, feel free to skip along.

By the way feel free to drop by WASD website. They offers keycap sets, which that much cheaper. But u do get quite a bit of customization from WASD.

[Pylon]

Aren't Cherry Corp lasered PBT caps pretty cheap? You can get a used point of sale G80 with them for <$50 on Ebay.

[bloodygood]

PBT is more durable, a lot more. They also give you a more humble resonance of the keyboard noise (lower in tone), which I like. If none of the above matter to you, feel free to skip along.

By the way feel free to drop by WASD website. They offers keycap sets, which that much cheaper. But u do get quite a bit of customization from WASD.

You might want to also mention that WASD sells ABS keycaps and not PBT keycaps. On a side note, that is why I created the other thread suggesting we help find a PBT supplier for WASD.

[wompwomp]

Wait a minute, are you saying PBT is just plastic pieces? Then perhaps you should go for ABS then if the quality of the material isn't important enough to you. While yes I believe that the price should be lower, it depends on what you are getting. If I could get a set of custom color scheme 87 keys for 39.99 + shipping I would definitely do it for PBT keycaps. But at the moment the options appear to be $15 for 37 keys of many options for colors, and up for 87 key sets but those are all either black or white no other colors I have seen.

Well, in reality, PBT still is plastic. And I'm just looking a regular black set, preferably engraved.

[AvenZerg]

Well, in reality, PBT still is plastic.

Indeed.. i think this subject is comparable with jeans brands, you can all wear em and they look practically the same. it really depends if you want to pay that little extra for (perhaps) slightly better durability.

[dorkvader]

Indeed.. i think this subject is comparable with jeans brands, you can all wear em and they look practically the same. it really depends if you want to pay that little extra for (perhaps) slightly better durability.

Jeans brands mater to me, who has long legs and a tiny waist. Do you know who makes a US 24X32? no-one that's who.

If I want my pants to actually fit, I need to get them tailored, as such my dress slacks are the most comfortable.

Also, I prefer the WYSE doubleshots to SP, as they're thicker, and therefore less worrisome.

[IvanIvanovich]

Jeans brands mater to me, who has long legs and a tiny waist. Do you know who makes a US 24X32? no-one that's who.
.

Diesel does. But at around $200 a pair on average.

But more on topic, keycaps can be similar to fashion. Some of it is function, but lets be honest and admit most of it is style when it comes down to it. You can get your basic ABS keycaps, like Levis and they are alright, and you can get your deluxe keycaps like doubleshots like a top brand fashion house, something like D&G.

[dorkvader]

That's a good point. I shelled out for WYSE keycaps mainly just for the arrow keys. I don't really look at them much (or use them that much, as they're on my "testing on games" board) but it looks good to anyone else that sees it.

(about the jeans, Diesel only goes to 26W, which would probably fit, though almost all jeans I've seen that are that slim in the waist are also too small to fit around my thighs. Are there no athletes in America? Also, it would probably still be cheaper to get them hand tailored. I know a guy.... Or cheaper still to buy a sewing machine. but this is beside the point.)

[alaricljs]

(about the jeans, Diesel only goes to 26W, which would probably fit, though almost all jeans I've seen that are that slim in the waist are also too small to fit around my thighs. Are there no athletes in America?)

Athlete... seriously?  I get that you're skinny but 24/32 ?? I wear a 32/32 and without some serious bone structure mods or organ relocations I'm not about to get it any smaller.  If you're wearing your jeans above your hips... well... gack, you're doing it wrong   Personally I think that particular style is as out of place as having your ass not contained by your pants.

[dorkvader]

I recommend any questions directed specifically to me be directed that way via PM. I want to keep this on topic!

PBT is a much more expensive polymer than ABS. That's another good reason it's expensive. I don't know why it's so much more expensive, but I do think the material itself is more.

[peda]

Diesel does. But at around $200 a pair on average.

Well worth it though!

Normally at a certain point price doesn't equal quality but 200$ diesel jeans are well within the limit.

On topic: they are not so expensive.  If you divide it down, you'll be most likely around 1$ a keycap.

It is a perspective thing. People don't complain about a 4$ individual keycap but 80$ for a set for a full keyboard is considered expensive.

[bloodygood]

$90 for a keyset!  And you STILL get a ****ing ABS spacebar!

$110 for Realforce Keys, $78 for HHKB!  And you STILL get a ****ing ABS spacebar!

Versus $25 for Unicomp PBT keyset (and PBT spacebar)

*snip*

So wait a minute, the KBC sells ABS spacebars? I know they sell PBT 37, 87, and 104 sets. But I was pretty sure that those included PBT spacebars not ABS.

[bloodygood]

Why would you have thought that?

You must have been listening to KL.  I'm the Number One Expert here......

Looking at your PBT Versus ABS Keys I do not see where it shows that KBC makes ABS spacebars. Also where did you pick up your PBT spacebar then, as in that wiki it only says that you acquired one.

I now have the PBT spacebar on so we'll see how long that lasts.

[Internetlad]

People don't complain about a 4$ individual keycap but 80$ for a set for a full keyboard is considered expensive.

Jokes on you, I have no problem complaining about that.

I'm cheap.

[keyboardlover]

You must have been listening to KL.  I'm the Number One Expert here......

I never said KBC spacebars were definitely ABS. Just asked if you had proved them not to be. Which you claim you have but I've yet to see evidence.

[dorkvader]

Please reread the PBT vs ABS article.  You DO know Slux was banned for always questioning sources.

Why, I'd like to see some evidence! If you were intelligent, you'd know that.

Gotta love that guy.
---
I really don't know why you always try to bait \KL, ripster. It's like you latch on to a misunderstanding, and won't let go.

Finally, my PBT unicomp spacebar has defects on it. That's why Topre, SP, KBC, etc makes it out of ABS. I'm okay with that.

[alaricljs]

Give me my wonderful feeling and similar sounding PBT space bar in spite of the wavy gravy...  Which is why I got my Ducky set  And all that aside, I don't see much in the way of defects on it.

[IvanIvanovich]

KBC makes BOTH abs and pbt spacebar. I have had each. When you buy KBC keyset, all keys are the same material in that keyset. I know it was pbt because abs does not have that awful shrinkage problem. That thing was all wavy and dimpled, looked like ****.

Has anyone had a full pom keyset from KBC? Is the spacebar pom too?

[keyboardlover]

SP says they can't do a PBT spacebar...IIRC they mentioned warping issues. Kudos to KBC for being able to do it.

[Oqsy]

Jeans brands mater to me, who has long legs and a tiny waist. Do you know who makes a US 24X32? no-one that's who.
If I want my pants to actually fit, I need to get them tailored

I recommend any questions directed specifically to me be directed that way via PM. I want to keep this on topic!

Hello pot, let me introduce you to kettle. I think you two have some things in common.

In other words, wtf?
An analogy is made using jeans, you latch on literally to try to make a point, and then scold someone for responding because its off topic?  

Nice try.

On topic: I prefer PBT in all possible situations, and will pay for the luxury without remorse. This does not mean I own exclusively PBT caps, as I have several ABS caps that I like a lot, but I'd like them more if they were PBT

[dorkvader]

Hello pot, let me introduce you to kettle. I think you two have some things in common.

In other words, wtf?
An analogy is made using jeans, you latch on literally to try to make a point, and then scold someone for responding because its off topic?  

Nice try.

No, it was a good analogy, and I realized that I was taking it off topic. I didn't want to scold anyone; my intention was to prevent further discussion on the jeans point. I made a mistake and tried to fix it.

So KBC is able to make spacebars without warpage? I know that unicomp has some issue with shrinkage: there is a small defect on my spacebar. That's pretty cool. I may want to order some KBC keycaps (or just spacebars) in the future.

[rvrebel]

I have been wanting to get my hands on some PBT keys but didn't like the idea of spending half the cost of a new keyboard.

I visit a few electronic recycling shops every couple of weeks to check out their stock. Stumbled on a brand new Cherry G81-3000 for only $2.95. I was trying to look up if they were definitely PBT or ABS but it was inconclusive. This morning I was scrounging around to find acetone/brush. Turn on a bright light, look at the underside of a cap and as clear as day in the mold it says "PBT"!

Other nice finds in the past were a near new Dell AT101 ($2) and a Chicony style clicky keyboard with a Chinese layout.

[alaricljs]

And be aware that ALL the Signature Plastic group buys will have ABS keys.

So which key in this set is ABS?

[dorkvader]

See my PBT Versus ABS Keys - FIGHT! Comparing KBC PBT and Filco Keys wiki for a full explanation of PBT "dimpling".

Yep, I reread it:

PBT is subject to molding warpage and shrinkage as the plastic cools in the mold. As a result the molds must be a tad larger and the process closely monitored. KBC had some problems with early batches. However PBT shrinkage has been around FOREVER and is not in my opinion that big a deal

Personally, I agree that it's not a big deal. I like the dimple on my spacebar, but I can't fault others for not liking it, and I certainly can't fault a company for not wanting that level of quality control in their product.

Still, if merely adding extra stabilizers and making it filco-leopold compatible is sufficient to negate the warpage and shrinkage, maybe we should petition SP and others to do likewise?

Also the "#1 keyboard expert on the planet" is wrong (again: must be in the 5%): there are many keysets from SP that you can get entirely in PBT, they just don't do PBT spacebars. Also, the PBT portal keys are amazing.