Ergo Clears mod question

[Gerk]

I have a Leopold TKL w/ clears in transit and I'm thinking that I will want to do some work on it, specifically convert the clears to ergo clears.  I've been reading up on it but want to verify that I have things right before I pull out the soldering gear and start pulling apart my donor board ...

The first question (I'm sure there will be more as time goes by) is can I use the springs from blues?  I read in one place that the blues and browns use the same springs, but then read somewhere else (don't think it was on GH) that there is a difference and that ergo clears should use only springs from browns ... don't want to start ripping all the blues of out of my Razer if they are not going to give me the right springs to do this mod  

I've yet to take apart either board yet (I don't have the TKL w/ clears yet anyway) ... but I know the Leopold is plate mounted so there will be de-soldering and re-soldering involved but not sure about the Razer ... will find out soon enough though.  Also I'll probably end up tossing the springs from the clears into the blues, which should make for an interesting finger workout LOL

Anyone have a good how to they can point me to?  I did search here but wanted to make sure I have all the resources at hand before I jump in two feet first.  The wiki page I found points to pictures that don't seem to exist.  I'll dig further on my own as well but thought if someone already knows the best place to find this and would share I'd be very happy

[fossala]

Blues use the same as brown and red.

[bloodygood]

Well before Ripster appears and suggests one if his many Wiki's some clarification might help.
1. Are you looking for a How-to for soldering?
2. Are you looking for how to disassemble Mx switches?
Because I know there are videos in the wiki for disassembling Mx switches but not necessarily a guide for soldering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivKt63dLvA
There are 2 tabs on both sides each have a sort of L shaped lip that needs to be pulled slightly away from the housing and that will release that side. You can do both on one side at the same time, but when you try to do the 2 on the opposite side I tend to unhook 1 at a time as this makes it a little easier to slip off without the spring popping the housing up.

[Gerk]

I guess both wouldn't hurt.  I'm far from a newbie when it comes to soldering, but I've never attempted desoldering a switch before and want to make sure I don't do anything bad to it  I saw a video on youtube for the switch disassembly but that guy seemed like a bit of a hack too ... again want to make sure I'm not going to be doing anything bad to my switches as I don't have a lot of spares for the blues to deal with (and no spares of the clears).

I find that the wiki's are incredibly hard to find the actual info in ... that's one of the problems with this whole embedded wiki approach :/  I find the embedded ones are tough to search (bulletin's search SUCKS), and it's really hard to search them via google and limiting to wiki information.

[bloodygood]

The main thing to know when soldering de-soldering Mx switches is that there are 2 pins that are soldered
This is what they look like from the top of the PCB (Grey side pins are for PCB mounted)
And this is for plate mounted.
It does take time to de-solder as the Mx switches have a diode or a led for each individual switch. So that means there will be a total of 4 pins to de-solder per switch.

[Gerk]

Thanks, that's great info.  Trying to locate a solder sucker right now .. I have some desoldering wick but someone someone my solder sucker seems missing in action :/  Going to pop open the razer case this weekend to see what I'm up against on that front.

[Lanx]

sucker is great, i for some reason couldn't use a solder wick for the life of me, maybe it took too long? sucker you just go and go and go and it's fast. Some notes of caution. If your doing a full keyboard or more than 20 switches, keep a small flathead or something around cuz all that solder will be "stuck" in the solder sucker, so you have to "dig" it out, just a few scraps, usually just the action of pushing down on the plunger dislodges a few bits of solder, but if you go and go, it'll build up too fast, so do a swipe with the flathead every 20 switches or so (or when you feel there is less sucking power, no joke, this is actually what it feels like if it gets cloggy).

solder suckers i think can be 10bucks at rip off radio shack, or 5bucks on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=solder+sucker&x=0&y=0

[Gerk]

They won't ship those to Canada  There are some listed on amazon.ca but most say 10-14 days before shipping and I don't want to wait that long for a $4 solder sucker.

I have a buddy with a hot air desoldering setup that will let me do the big desoldering at his place (but I don't want to melt down his solder sucker, rather use my own)  

I'll track one down.  They seem to be surprisingly hard to find in my area .. none of the major stores that have that sort of stuff near me know what I'm talking about LOL.  They all sell soldering irons and guns but no one even has wick let alone a solder sucker/pump.  I will locate something though, might just have to go a bit further to pick it up is all.

[Lanx]

go google like local rc hobby shop or something in toronto cn then
http://www.google.ca/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=toronto+cn+rc+hobby+store+local&pbx=1&oq=toronto+cn+rc+hobby+store+local&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=13315l14501l2l15484l6l6l0l0l0l5l911l3111l3-1.0.3.1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=10539f2b624eed6&biw=1920&bih=1040

if you don't have some radio shack, then a rc hobby store would prolly have a solder sucker, those guys do lots of soldering work.

[Gerk]

Yep, think I located one.  I need a new iron too (the one I have right now is more for cable work - think it's a 45w and I should probably be using a 25w for this stuff, probably too hot for electronics).  I found a "the source" (radio shack) near me that has a couple of pumps and a couple of kits, going to go look at them and see if they actually do have them in stock, thanks

[Lanx]

i don't think wattage really matters, just need it hot enough to melt the solder cuz it's not like your soldering/desoldering stuff near chips, just a big dumb cherry switch, oh and seems like the diodes can take lots of punishment.

[Gerk]

Ok good to know.  I also found a cheap soldering station with adjustable temperature so I think I'm set.  My current iron is pretty hurting anyway and this soldering station is an upgrade, the iron I have is a super cheapo and doesn't owe me anything at this point.  The station is still cheap but at least it's a brand name (Weller) and will be new hehe.

[fossala]

Just my 2cent I thought I originally liked ergo-clears but the kept having some lag bouncing back up and instead of going up with my fingers they would go up just after and hit my fingers. I couldn't get over this so ended up with strait up clears.

[Clickey]

I plan on posting a guide to plate mounted ergo clears one of these days. The razer is plate mounted, so you will have to desolder both sides. Leopolds dont have diodes, and razer will only have LED's to desolder, if yours is the ultimate. Make sure you dont desolder non-switch components, because you can mess up the matrix. The capslock/scroll lock lights need to be resoldered in the right orientation of they wont light. Good luck.

[Gerk]

It's not the Ultimate, just the standard one (I got it on sale just after last xmas so it was a cheap set of cherry blues to harvest, I always hated the board anyway)

I am now equipped with a solder sucker and a new heat controlled iron so I should be good to go.  If I have questions once I get into the board I'll post, thanks everyone.

[BiNiaRiS]

Just my 2cent I thought I originally liked ergo-clears but the kept having some lag bouncing back up and instead of going up with my fingers they would go up just after and hit my fingers. I couldn't get over this so ended up with strait up clears.

It's the leafs inside the switch and after some use that usually goes away. If not, you can open it up and push the leaf back to relieve the pressure on the spring which will 100% fix the issue. This issue is much more common with brand new switch housings.

Also, use a low wattage soldering iron, 25w or less. A VERY small tip will also make the process a lot easier. I use this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Coopertools-SP12-Mini-Lightweight-Solder/dp/B00002N7S9/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1321761337&sr=8-4

I might eventually get this one since it's quite a bit nicer:
http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WM120-120v-Pencil-Soldering/dp/B0000WT586/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1321761325&sr=8-2

It's not the Ultimate, just the standard one (I got it on sale just after last xmas so it was a cheap set of cherry blues to harvest, I always hated the board anyway)

I am now equipped with a solder sucker and a new heat controlled iron so I should be good to go.  If I have questions once I get into the board I'll post, thanks everyone.

Make sure you find a good quality solder sucker. I went through a few before I found a nice one. The first 2 I used were crap and 25% of the time when you pressed down the spring they popped back up. When you are desoldering 100+ switches it starts to become a real pain.

[Lanx]

Make sure you find a good quality solder sucker. I went through a few before I found a nice one. The first 2 I used were crap and 25% of the time when you pressed down the spring they popped back up. When you are desoldering 100+ switches it starts to become a real pain.

what brand did you find was good?

[BiNiaRiS]

what brand did you find was good?

The one i found and ended up keeping was at a small surplus electronics store near me. It's silver and black and almost all metal. The action is smooth and when you compress it you can beat on it and it won't release. The part that you push down on is also rounded which makes it a lot more comfortable to use.  I can't find the baggie it came in so I don't recall the brand. I paid under $10 for it.

They aren't complicated so just try them and make sure they feel well built. There are a lot of plastic ones and the first one I tried was like $5 at Frys. It was made out of aluminum but was crap.

[Clickey]

Hakko is the best brand I have tried, they are usually more expensive, but with a soldering iron, going cheap will make your job a lot harder.

Also make sure you take care of the tip or it will get oxidized fast and won't transfer heat.

[dorkvader]

Also, use a low wattage soldering iron, 25w or less. A VERY small tip will also make the process a lot easier.

I disagree: A low wattage soldering iron means that you'll have to work slower, which increases the chances of destroying a chip. Ewen though that's not an issue here, you can melt the solder pretty much instantly with a higher wattage iron, which means less heat spreading to unwanted parts of the board. Overall, I recommend it.

Still, either way should be fine, especially if you're careful.

Keep in mind that a smaller tip will transfer less heat to the solder and board, but if you get the right one for your application (sometimes chisel are better. sometimes conical) it will be okay, anyway. Often, you can prevent heating up the PCB traces with a smaller tip.

[BiNiaRiS]

I disagree: A low wattage soldering iron means that you'll have to work slower, which increases the chances of destroying a chip. Ewen though that's not an issue here, you can melt the solder pretty much instantly with a higher wattage iron, which means less heat spreading to unwanted parts of the board. Overall, I recommend it.

Still, either way should be fine, especially if you're careful.

Keep in mind that a smaller tip will transfer less heat to the solder and board, but if you get the right one for your application (sometimes chisel are better. sometimes conical) it will be okay, anyway. Often, you can prevent heating up the PCB traces with a smaller tip.

I can desolder an entire board with that little 12w no problem. 12w is low though, but almost anyone will tell you not to get anything over 30w if you are working on electronics. Work8ing with a lower wattage iron is less dangerous that higher wattage.

[Clickey]

I can desolder an entire board with that little 12w no problem. 12w is low though, but almost anyone will tell you not to get anything over 30w if you are working on electronics. Work8ing with a lower wattage iron is less dangerous that higher wattage.

I have to agree with Dorkvader on this one, that 12w will not work on a Filco and it will take so long to melt the solder (if you even can), you will end up damaging the trace/PCB. A larger tip is also better because it transfers/holds more heat, as long as it is not too big that it can't be accurate. I use an 85W Hakko with a wedge tip which makes the job quicker, cleaner, and easier.

Leaded solder melts pretty easy (cherry, ALPS, any older board), but the lead-free crap on Filco is really hard to get off. The lead free stuff in a Leo/Noppoo is easier to remove than Filco, but still not as easy as the ancient boards.

[Gerk]

The Razer seems to be in the class with the Filco as far as getting the solder off.  I did a bit of work on it over the weekend and I learned one thing ... if I'm going to proceed with this I'm going to plead with my buddy to lend me his reworking station for a few days when it's time to do all the serious work  For now I think I'm going to 1) wait until the board arrives (a week in customs and counting), and 2) probably only mod a couple of switches to try them out and see if it's worth the work for what I'm looking for ... not even sure I'll like them yet or that I won't like the straight clears better.