PLZ HALP!! Need Avant Stellar Replacement Board

[WingZero]

Okay, so I've been scouring these forums for months now trying to figure out what my next keyboard will be now that CVT got eaten up by some mother licking company. My stellar is breaking down and has various problems that I'd rather not go to the trouble of trying to find someone to fix.  As a result, I am looking for a replacement...

I LOVE the Avant Stellar. I like the sound and the feel and both of these things are important to me although the FEEL would take priority.  One thing I have a hard time picturing myself without is the F keys being on the left side.  I play an old skool spaceship game (Continuum aka SubSpace --> http://www.trenchwars.net) that makes use of the function keys and being able to rest my pinky on F7 is so rewarding.  This game also requires a unique usage of the non-numpad arrow keys in the triangle shape. I have come to terms with the fact that I probably won't be able to find another keyboard that has everything I want AND the left side function keys so I'm prepared to give them up.  I've never been able to sample a cherry keyboard so I'm really uncertain as to which switch I'd like best.  So I went to Best Buy today and tried to do a little sample of the widow and when I touched the arrow keys I got a big sad face.  It just didn't feel like my avant.  It felt so breakable but maybe that's something I can get used to but I tend to type pretty hard and with purpose.  I like tactility and knowing when I've hit a key.  I thought the 7G might be the kb for me but I dont know now.

Summary:
 - Tactile. I want to feel it.
 - Sturdy stiffness. I don't mind ripped shirts and green skin (hulking if u missed that reference).
 - Sound. Why else would I be on these forums?
 - Left Side F keys
 - Big enter key is a plus (basically anything resembling the avant layout)

That was a prioritized list but I'm willing to change my ways if you guys talk me into it.
I can't think of anything else but please help me decide! Thanks for reading.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Uh, you could just go get one from ebay.

Or an AT F IBM

Or a Northgate Omnikey.

All older type boards, but that's more or less just what you're actually after. For the record, that's probably a complicated white alps board. Most of the new stuff now are all cherry boards instead, so it might be difficult for you to find what you're after.

[The Solutor]

If you like the Stellar why not just buy a new one ?

[The Solutor]

And you guys might want to check Ebay before suggesting it. None there right now.

The keyboard is available, although not cheap (I believe it never was).

Avant Stellar (recent at least) are all ALPS Simplified Type1 Clicky Whites (Fukkas).

A new one doesn't mean necessarily a brand new one.

An used one in good condition should be more than enough to satisfy the OP requirements.

[TexasFlood]

Uh, you could just go get one from ebay.
Or an AT F IBM
Or a Northgate Omnikey.

Good recommendations.  Like this one, admittedly a bit odd looking but bet it feels fine, currently at $12.50+shipping.

If you like the Stellar why not just buy a new one ?
The keyboard is available, although not cheap (I believe it never was).

Took the words out of my mouth.  You don't really say why you aren't considering this, sort of acting like it's not available, but it is.   Or there is are numerous repair services on ebay such as this one.  Again you don't seem to want to go this route without clearly articulating why.

[TexasFlood]

Uh, you could just go get one from ebay.
Or an AT F IBM
Or a Northgate Omnikey.

Good recommendations.  Like this one, admittedly a bit odd looking but bet it feels fine, currently at $12.50+shipping.

If you like the Stellar why not just buy a new one ?
The keyboard is available, although not cheap (I believe it never was).

Took the words out of my mouth.  You don't really say why you aren't considering this, sort of acting like it's not available, but it is.   Or there is are numerous repair services on ebay such as this one.  Again you don't seem to want to go this route without clearly articulating why.

[TexasFlood]

Are you suggesting ErgonomicResources.com is a scam? What proof of this do we have except for a post from a guy who said he made a phone call?  It might be true but that seems thin.

But yes nothing wrong with calling Northgate Computer repair first.  And +1 for the classic jibjab, not sure how it relates, but it doesn't have to, it's a classic! :wink:

[The Solutor]

Are you suggesting ErgonomicResources.com is a scam?

This is the company who bought CVT, i presume they know if they have boards to sell.

[WingZero]

Sorry I didn't think to include my reasons as to why I didn't want another avant stellar.  I play this game a lot and as a result, my up arrow key breaks constantly.  When CVT was there I could shoot them an email and they'd send me new key caps no problem.  Frankly, I don't want to have to worry about not being able to replace a broken key cap in a timely fashion and I also want the comfort of knowing that the company who made the keyboard is still around if I ever should need to call them.  My Avant had to be sent to CVT once in order for them to fix it and it still doesn't work properly.  I've never been able to use macro mode.

I was hoping to find a new keyboard to love but I can't seem to figure out if I'll like the cherries or not and if I would then which style would it be.  I also don't have as much cash to throw around as I did back when I originally bought the keyboard so I was hoping to find one to love at 150 or less.

P.S. I didn't include my budget originally because I was hoping to hear about potential dream boards (maybe someone would say something about Topre?).  I was also hoping to hear about the subtle differences between the White ALPs versus the Cherry line of switches.  Maybe I don't need to type so hard?

[WingZero]

Maybe you shoulda put in your prioritized list you didn't want another Avant Stellar?

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned Avant Stellar at all... I just want to know my options.  I am extremely indecisive but listening to experience definitely helps.  I guess what I should really be asking is: if I like the feel of white alps then what switches that are more commonly available today might I like or be able to adapt to easily?  

I've only pushed a blue cherry through a hole in a box so I don't even know what cherries really feel like.  The thought of typing lightly scares me a bit because I tend to start pounding almost once I get going but that is probably just a habit from the avant.  The idea of gliding over the keys sounds intriguing though and I'd probably end up liking it but I'd appreciate some opinions from people who may have some experience with the avant and might be able to give me some confidence in a different keyboard.  

When I play my game I hold my right hand flat and kind of hover over the keys.  I generally play best once I find the sweet spot and can make tiny movements to change direction.  Being able to due a bunch of tiny direction changes really fast is important.  Kinda hard to explain I guess.

Also, I think the cherries will be a lot less likely to break since it looks like the keycap is the female part instead of the male part.

[TexasFlood]

When CVT was there I could shoot them an email and they'd send me new key caps no problem.  Frankly, I don't want to have to worry about not being able to replace a broken key cap in a timely fashion and I also want the comfort of knowing that the company who made the keyboard is still around if I ever should need to call them.  My Avant had to be sent to CVT once in order for them to fix it and it still doesn't work properly.  I've never been able to use macro mode.

I was hoping to find a new keyboard to love but I can't seem to figure out if I'll like the cherries or not and if I would then which style would it be.  I also don't have as much cash to throw around as I did back when I originally bought the keyboard so I was hoping to find one to love at 150 or less.

P.S. I didn't include my budget originally because I was hoping to hear about potential dream boards (maybe someone would say something about Topre?).  I was also hoping to hear about the subtle differences between the White ALPs versus the Cherry line of switches.  Maybe I don't need to type so hard?

Maybe you shoulda put in your prioritized list you didn't want another Avant Stellar?

Yup, my impression of your first email was you really loved the Stellar, nothing else compared and now you didn't seem to want either your old or a new Stellar.  Kinda left me scratching my head.  Saying you want an active company to support you immediately takes a lot of choices out of the mix.  For the most part you'll be looking at cherries or perhaps a Unicomp buckling spring.  I've never used a topre, they sound nice but too pricey for me and it sounds like maybe for you.  There is plenty of stuff to read about all these switches and keyboards already here, in posts, the wikis and reviews.  Ultimately I think you're really should find a way to try at least buckling springs & blue cherries, brown if you can find one to try, I bought a MX11800 just so I could try browns and I like them a lot.  If you like mechanicals but not the cherry blue click you might as well.  Buckling springs are classic of course a loud spring buckle noise.

And you can bottom out cherries all you want, makes some noise, which you can optionally silence with o-rings as I'm planning to try, but won't snap off as far as I know, :-D.  Many folks end up deciding between blue an brown cherries then just need to pick the company & layout.  Lately red cherries seem to be catching on as a smoother alternative to browns, but harder to come by so tend to be more expensive.

[The Solutor]

Being able to due a bunch of tiny direction changes really fast is important.  Kinda hard to explain I guess.

Nope, blues aren't for you then. Too much hysteresis.

You should consider cherry clears (decent tactility stiffer spring than alps) or Ergo clears ( very good tactility, very close to alps feeling, slightly softer tough, are modded switches not existent in "nature") or Tactoblacks (likely the closest to alps feeling). All of them aren't clicky.

[TexasFlood]

When CVT was there I could shoot them an email and they'd send me new key caps no problem.  Frankly, I don't want to have to worry about not being able to replace a broken key cap in a timely fashion and I also want the comfort of knowing that the company who made the keyboard is still around if I ever should need to call them.  My Avant had to be sent to CVT once in order for them to fix it and it still doesn't work properly.  I've never been able to use macro mode.

I was hoping to find a new keyboard to love but I can't seem to figure out if I'll like the cherries or not and if I would then which style would it be.  I also don't have as much cash to throw around as I did back when I originally bought the keyboard so I was hoping to find one to love at 150 or less.

P.S. I didn't include my budget originally because I was hoping to hear about potential dream boards (maybe someone would say something about Topre?).  I was also hoping to hear about the subtle differences between the White ALPs versus the Cherry line of switches.  Maybe I don't need to type so hard?

Maybe you shoulda put in your prioritized list you didn't want another Avant Stellar?

Yup, my impression of your first email was you really loved the Stellar, nothing else compared and now you didn't seem to want either your old or a new Stellar.  Kinda left me scratching my head.

Saying you want an active company to support you immediately takes a lot of choices out of the mix.  For the most part you'll be looking at cherries or perhaps a Unicomp buckling spring.  I've never used a topre, they sound nice but too pricey for me and it sounds like maybe for you.  There is plenty of stuff to read about all these switches and keyboards already here, in posts, the wikis and reviews

Ultimately I think you're really should find a way to try at least buckling springs & blue cherries, brown if you can find one to try, I bought a MX11800 just so I could try browns and I like them a lot.  If you like mechanicals but not the cherry blue click you might as well.  Buckling springs are classic of course a loud spring buckle noise.

And you can bottom out cherries all you want, makes some noise, which you can optionally silence with o-rings as I'm planning to try, but won't snap off as far as I know, :-D.  Many folks end up deciding between blue an brown cherries then just need to pick the company & layout.  Lately red cherries seem to be catching on as a smoother alternative to browns, but harder to come by so tend to be more expensive.

[TexasFlood]

When CVT was there I could shoot them an email and they'd send me new key caps no problem.  Frankly, I don't want to have to worry about not being able to replace a broken key cap in a timely fashion and I also want the comfort of knowing that the company who made the keyboard is still around if I ever should need to call them.  My Avant had to be sent to CVT once in order for them to fix it and it still doesn't work properly.  I've never been able to use macro mode.

I was hoping to find a new keyboard to love but I can't seem to figure out if I'll like the cherries or not and if I would then which style would it be.  I also don't have as much cash to throw around as I did back when I originally bought the keyboard so I was hoping to find one to love at 150 or less.

P.S. I didn't include my budget originally because I was hoping to hear about potential dream boards (maybe someone would say something about Topre?).  I was also hoping to hear about the subtle differences between the White ALPs versus the Cherry line of switches.  Maybe I don't need to type so hard?

Maybe you shoulda put in your prioritized list you didn't want another Avant Stellar?

Yup, my impression of your first email was you really loved the Stellar, nothing else compared and now you didn't seem to want either your old or a new Stellar.  Kinda left me scratching my head.

Saying you want an active company to support you immediately takes a lot of choices out of the mix.  For the most part you'll be looking at cherries or perhaps a Unicomp buckling spring.  I've never used a topre, they sound nice but too pricey for me and it sounds like maybe for you.  There is plenty of stuff to read about all these switches and keyboards already here, in posts, the wikis and reviews

Ultimately I think you're really should find a way to try at least buckling springs & blue cherries, brown if you can find one to try, I bought a MX11800 just so I could try browns and I like them a lot.  If you like mechanicals but not the cherry blue click you might as well.  Buckling springs are classic of course a loud spring buckle noise.

And you can bottom out cherries all you want, makes some noise, which you can optionally silence with o-rings as I'm planning to try, but won't snap off as far as I know, :-D.  Many folks end up deciding between blue an brown cherries then just need to pick the company & layout.  Lately red cherries seem to be catching on as a smoother alternative to browns, but harder to come by so tend to be more expensive.

Nope, blues aren't for you then. Too much hysteresis.

You should consider cherry clears (decent tactility stiffer spring than alps) or Ergo clears ( very good tactility, very close to alps feeling, slightly softer tough, are modded switches not existent in "nature") or Tactoblacks (likely the closest to alps feeling). All of them aren't clicky.

Hmm, I have yet to try clears or ergo clears and never even heard of tactoblacks.  Maybe it's time for me to try some new things, :wink:.

[The Solutor]

Hmm, I have yet to try clears or ergo clears and never even heard of tactoblacks.  Maybe it's time for me to try some new things, :wink:.

Clears are too stiff for my likings, and the stiffness masks also part of the tactility, sorta of browns on steroids.

Ergoclears are likely the best kind of cherry switch, good tactility, tiny hysteresys, soft spring.

Tactoblacks are clear stem + black spring, are a middleway between the two, and the springs are just slightly stiffer than the alps ones

[WingZero]

Ah, ty texas and solutor, this is the sorta info i was after.  As I've said, I have scoured these forums for months thinking that I should be able to find what I need to hear but it only lead to frustration.

So what keyboards are being made with clear cherries? I haven't read anything about ergo clears but I clickyness is something I am after.

Should I suck it up and just go with browns?  They seem to be the crowd favorite and I tend to overthink things so perhaps they are exactly what I'm looking for.  I know whatever I end up getting I'll probably just keep regardless of whether or not it was the right choice which is why I try to do as much research beforehand as possible.  

What exactly is meant by hysteresis? I read a bit about it but perhaps you can clarify for me.

[The Solutor]

So what keyboards are being made with clear cherries?

A lot of cherry made boards in Europe, just the Deck legend tactile in the US. If you are in the US you can find a lot o of Cherry POS boards sold on ebay, usually they are also programmable.

I haven't read anything about ergo clears but I clickyness is something I am after.

Look at the cherry wiki in the wiki section, you can't buy an ergo clears board. You need a clear one plus a brown/blue/red board to swap the springs (on pcb mounted boards this is feasible w/o any soldering, like on alps.

The same applies to tactoblacks, you need a black donor board.

Should I suck it up and just go with browns?

I can't suggest that route, browns are switches w/o any personality, they are insipid.

Are usually the first choice for newcomers, a person used to alps can be only deluded by them.

What exactly is meant by hysteresis? I read a bit about it but perhaps you can clarify for me.

The point when the switch actuates (pushing the key) is usually different from the point when the contact is opened (releasing the key) especially on tactile switches.

Also alps are affected. but while those points are relatively close on Alps, and cherry brown, clears (and derivatives), on blues those points are relatively distant.

A blue switch, once actuated, needs to be released almost completely to start a new cycle, so they are not good for dublle tapping and for fast tiny corrections you talked above.

[TexasFlood]

So if you've been poking around here for months, you should have found articles in the wiki like "Keyboard Peak and Activation Forces" and "Cherry switches and boards".  I went to the latter to look up Ergo clears and Tactoblacks.  I hadn't really been paying attention so seems these are both modified switches I don't think you're going to find on new major vendor keyboards.  Clears on the other hand can be had on keyboards such as the Cherry g80-3000 LQCEU-0 reviewed below (also from the wiki.  Check out the former article for characteristics of switches for comparison.  Also take a look at the reviews

[TexasFlood]

So if you've been poking around here for months, you should have found articles in the wiki like "Keyboard Peak and Activation Forces" and "Cherry switches and boards".  I went to the latter to look up Ergo clears and Tactoblacks.  I hadn't really been paying attention so seems these are both modified switches I don't think you're going to find on new major vendor keyboards.  Clears on the other hand can be had on keyboards such as the Cherry g80-3000 LQCEU-0 reviewed below (also from the wiki).  Check out the former article for characteristics of switches for comparison.  Also take a look at the reviews.

[TexasFlood]

So if you've been poking around here for months, you should have found articles in the wiki like "Keyboard Peak and Activation Forces" and "Cherry switches and boards".  I went to the latter to look up Ergo clears and Tactoblacks.  I hadn't really been paying attention so seems these are both modified switches I don't think you're going to find on new major vendor keyboards.  Clears on the other hand can be had on keyboards such as the Cherry g80-3000 LQCEU-0 reviewed below (also from the wiki).  You can find other good videos on youtube which can give you some idea of the look & sound of a keyboard but you're better off getting your hands on as many as possible.  Check out the former article for characteristics of switches for comparison.  Also take a look at the reviews.

[TexasFlood]

Just the Deck legend tactile in the US.

That's a good looking keyboard, I've thought more than once about getting one.  It's just I already have a lot of nice boards and hard to justify it as cheap as I am. But it's TEMPTING! :wink:

[False_Dmitry_II]

Hmm tactoblacks. How far/close is that spring to clears? Most times I saw they are generally lumped together.

@OP

If it really has to be a current board (though if you break caps that often, something tells me you should just buy a parts board and just go through every key on it and eventually get another one. I can't really see many companies putting up with people breaking stuff and then expecting a replacement free.) then I'd think a unicomp or some random simplified white alps would probably be closest.

You also just tossed every single thing I mentioned out. As such it is now impossible to find a board with a layout even slightly close to that. Unless you build a completely custom board or something, but that's worse than just buying something old.

[TexasFlood]

Just the Deck legend tactile in the US.

That's a good looking keyboard, I've thought more than once about getting one.  It's just I already have a lot of nice boards and hard to justify it as cheap as I am. But it's TEMPTING! :wink:  And again, probably sounding like a broken record, but looking at the resources available on geekhack there is Deck Legend Ice review, a Deck Legend w/ Cherry Clear audio clip, a comparison of Deck Legend Linear vs. Filco Majestouch FKBN104ML/EB vs. SteelSeries 6Gv2 and comparison of the XArmor U9BL-S vs Deck Legend, all found with 5 minutes of searching.

[didjamatic]

Man, if you love your Avant Stellar you need to get your hands on a good Northgate.

There's always Northgate Bob as Ripster mentioned.  Looks like he has 6 CVT boards and plenty of Northgates.  A good Northgate will last you a lifetime.  Be sure you get the arrow cluster or Omnikey cluster that you prefer.

Here's an example of a good one.  Not sure about the seller though.

If you're really in a bind I have quite a horde but I generally don't like to sell my Northgates.

[TexasFlood]

Man, if you love your Avant Stellar you need to get your hands on a good Northgate.

There's always Northgate Bob as Ripster mentioned.  Looks like he has 6 CVT boards and plenty of Northgates.  Get an Ultra T, Ultra + or anything with dip switches along the top edge (non-trap door) and it will last you a lifetime.  The other Northgates will last you half a lifetime.  Be sure you get the arrow cluster or Omnikey cluster that you prefer.

Here's an example of a good one.  Not sure about the seller though.

If you're really in a bind I have quite a horde but I generally don't like to sell my Northgates.

As you know, I considered selling my Northgate but couldn't bring myself to in the end.  Not only is it a quality keyboard but really my first love with regard to mechanical keyboards.  Well of course I'd typed on some good mechanicals, like various IBM buckling springs but this was the first one that really made me want to bring one home.  Sadly I was misguided and banished it to the basement for years but it waited for me, well I guess what choice did it have.  But anyway, it was good as new years later when I discovered geekhack and remembered the lonely banished Northgate. :biggrin: anyway... Blues ALPS Northgates are supposed to be great, you have one do you know, didjamatic?  There is one on ebay, been there a while, wonder why?

[didjamatic]

I'm suspicious of the authenticity of that $500 keyboard on ebay.  it's a unique version so it could be legit but to me it looks like it should have white switches instead of blues.  IIRC (but could be mistaken) the same seller sold an Ultra T or similar with blues and that never existed.

[REVENGE]

I'm suspicious of the authenticity of that $500 keyboard on ebay.  it's a unique version so it could be legit but to me it looks like it should have white switches instead of blues.  IIRC (but could be mistaken) the same seller sold an Ultra T or similar with blues and that never existed.

Like I said: dye slider -> ?? -> PROFIT.

WingZero: I wouldn't invest too much in just talk. Rather, if you have the opportunity, go down to a store like Fry's or Microcenter and actually type on some of the keyboards they have there. Given that you can afford it, you can also buy some of the cheaper boards of each switch type to try them out. I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to acquire one each of Black, Blue, Brown, and Clear boards for under $100. At the end of the day, each make of keyboard is different from another. Both my KBC Poker and Qtronix Scorpius 35s have Cherry Blue switches, but key feel is vastly different between them.

[didjamatic]

Frys won't have anything on par with a Northgate.

[TexasFlood]

Like I said: dye slider -> ?? -> PROFIT.

WingZero: I wouldn't invest too much in just talk. Rather, if you have the opportunity, go down to a store like Fry's or Microcenter and actually type on some of the keyboards they have there.

Frys won't have anything on par with a Northgate.

No, they won't.  You can probably expect some cherry black and blue :boxing:
And I see Frys offers a Hello Kitty Pink Keyboard "with stars" :nono:

[didjamatic]

and i see frys offers a hello kitty pink keyboard "with stars" :nono:

 lmao

[Exciter]

Summary:
 - Tactile. I want to feel it.
 - Sturdy stiffness. I don't mind ripped shirts and green skin (hulking if u missed that reference).
 - Sound. Why else would I be on these forums?
 - Left Side F keys
 - Big enter key is a plus (basically anything resembling the avant layout)

That was a prioritized list but I'm willing to change my ways if you guys talk me into it.
I can't think of anything else but please help me decide! Thanks for reading.

I too have an Avant Stellar and before that I had a Northgate Ultra. I know this is kind of an old thread but if you're still looking for an excellent keyboard I have used a Unicomp 104 customizer.
You can get it at pckeyboard.com
It has the old IBM buckling spring keys, is heavy duty with a steel plate. The only thing it doesn't have is the left side function keys and an oversized enter key. But it's also a great deal at $79.
My northgate served me well for at least 14 years and the unicomp keyboard would probably stand up as long. The Northgate would probably still keep going if I didn't spill beer on it.

[slueth]

You could of probably of fixed it, but Unicomp could use your business.