ACER "switches" ...?

[Captain Hat]

Been playing around with a bunch of ACER boards we got at work, one of the keystems broke off so I figured I'd take a look inside and see if I could get inside a switch, see how they worked...  Well, this may already be common knowledge here but I was a little surprised by what I found:

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The ACER "switches" are really just tactile mechanisms (very simple, composed of a spring, a tactile/click plate, a slider, a switch cover and a little clear plastic rocker arm thing) which clip into the body of the keyboard and sit over a normal three-membrane contact sheet.  The membrane itself is depressed by the rocker arm rather than directly by the key slider, so there is some benefit to it (the key will actuate before bottoming out, and it will exert less force on the membrane than a rubber dome).

Is this widely known, or has nobody taken one of these apart before?   I'm guessing toe former, but then I got to wondering why more people don't use ACER tactile blocks to mod rubber dome boards- I knwo thre are a lot of very nice layouts on dome boards that you can't get mech setups for, and rewiring full-on switches can be a nightmare, surely this is a much easier solution?  Just shove some of these in instead of the rubber domes.  You jsut have to fit them into the case and fiddle about with the vertical positioning a little.  I know they're not the best in terms of feel, but when it's this simple it's got to be a good idea, right?

What do you guys think?

[enoy21]

Can you get a close up picture of a single switch ? I can't seem much looking at the whole board.

[kriminal]

it similar to alps switches i believe i have a pic up in the pictures forum
edit

however watching those pics over it seems to be different.. a closer up pic will help indeed

[spolia optima]

The Acer switches are pretty well-known. If you ask me, it counts as a "mechanical" in the same way that the Fujitsu Peerless and IBM beam spring counts as 'mechanical'.

Personally, I think the best way to improve standard rubber domes is with grease on the sliders. For a perfect example of this, see the Cherry G86 series

[Captain Hat]

These are the internal parts of the ACER tactile mechanism (inset bottom left is a closeup of the underside of the complete thing):

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The top of the slider is ALPS-compatible, as has been mentioned:

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And yeah, I know IBM's beam springs work the same way so I'm not trying to argue that these aren't mechanical, I was just wondering how common knowledge this was:  Also, why people don't use it more often.  I mean it looks to me like a dead easy mod to fit these to any given rubber dome, and given that I know there are some ergo boards in particular that you can't get anything but domes for, it seems to me like an easier solution than trying to rewire the whole thing.

[spolia optima]

Thanks for the update! It's cool to see how those things work.

[spolia optima]

I just assumed...hmm...
Once again, keyboard science to the rescue!

[Findecanor]

IBM beam spring? That one does not have a membrane. It works by moving a metal plate away from a capacitative sensor. Definitely mechanical.

IBM Model M, that one has buckling springs with hammers that hit membranes. IBM Model F on the other hand, has buckling springs with hammers that are detected by capacitative sensors. Both types of keyboards are considered mechanical because they have buckling springs -- not because of their detection mechanisms.

Another switch type that is considered mechanical and has membranes is the Cherry MY switch, used in Cherry G81 - series keyboards. It has a coiled spring and a leaf spring, where a bump on the leaf spring presses the membrane.

[Clickey]

Acers are probably the most underated switch on this forum. They feel great, they sound great, and they are cheap. People only seem to ignore them because of the membrane, which makes no sense because the same people bob on the D of Topre which is a rubber dome.

I bet less than 1% of GH'ers have actually bothered trying them.

[Captain Hat]

They're actually a lot lighter than most of the ALPS boards I've tried, in terms of the actuation force, and the "click" action's really nice, I do like the ACER boards.  The one single issue I've noticed is that not all of the keys "click" properly on actuation.  I probably shouldn't mention the faults, as I'm trying to sell the things (I've got 25 or 26 on eBay in various conditions) but at the end of the day I'm compulsively honest about a lot of things and I see no reason why this should be any different.

Oh, and the ALPS stems on the keys are a little weak perhaps?  I may have just treated them a little roughly, but of the 26 or 27 boards I've had through I've had three key stems break.

[Captain Hat]

Oh, I'm fully aware of that (on both counts:p), but I've still not had a stem break before these boards came across my desk.  Well, not that I was there to see, anyway.

[Clickey]

Well they are cheaply made, the keycaps are definately crap. They are lighter than ALPS, but still have the more satisfying click. The switches are great but the boards are cheap, much like with most Chicony boards. Which is the only reason I don't use my Acer as my daily driver.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Out of people who have tried them alot complain about just how crap they supposedly are. One example would be what Captain Hat mentioned. Another would be complaints of how far off the signal is from the click and such. I think that has more to do with the state their copy is in rather than the switches themselves. Mine is in great shape, and it seems to me that as far as that goes cherry switches are further off.

But yeah they do generally seem to be largely ignored.

[Findecanor]

It's because they look like ALPS.

It was some time since I last used mine, but I think that they feel a lot like ALPS too, and I don't like ALPS.

[Clickey]

It was some time since I last used mine, but I think that they feel a lot like ALPS too, and I don't like ALPS.

Unless they are in bad condition, they are lighter than ALPS, and the click is slightly different.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Well, I just pulled mine out. Yeah, it doesn't feel like alps at all. The trigger point is way lower than alps ever was. I think "lighter" highly depends on which alps (or acer, but I think there are just color differences for acer and not functional) variant is being compared. Lighter than stock white alps though, yeah. I think the noise is more than slightly different.

[andrewjoy]

I have just ordered one of them on ebay thinking of using it in work. Going to modify it tho  dye the keys so they look like an acorn A3010 ( cannot post a link as i am new)  may also try to silence it a bit any ideas anyone ?

[andrewjoy]

I have just finished cleaning this keyboard and getting it into a nice state before i tested it

The stems on the key caps are quite weak i broke the ones on F6 and F10 when i was pulling the caps for cleaning ( this was my own fault for not using a key cap puller) however i managed to fix them with a bit of glue.

I must say this board is quite nice i don't think its going to replace my black widow however for the price this keyboard is amazing i do like the acer style switches. They are quite underrated as a switch.

Does anyone know what the caps are made out of ? I would like to dye the keys but i don't want to melt my key caps

[False_Dmitry_II]

They are ABS. Have fun melting them.

I actually just finished modding mine, I don't think I ever will again (or I'll figure out a faster way) because the switches sit in the top half of the plastic case, and I had to pop each and every one off to paint it. I painted the keys with stabilizers that I had to use and the function row the same. The rest are keys stolen from an aekii that I dyed green (though it got darker than I wanted, but is still fully readable). I'm just glad it's finally back together again.

[andrewjoy]

i am going green function keys too acorn style means i will have to re glue the F10 key but meh

 could you post pics ?

[False_Dmitry_II]

Unless you've got a source of pbt keys then the most likely result really is melting them. Or at least I've never managed to have them survive - even the MEK method was far too strong when I tried it, maybe you can attempt it more dilute. I wouldn't try it on the irreplaceable keys, just ones that you can steal stuff from a dell or whatever.

Painting works fine for anything, but you'll lose the legends.

I will one day post pics, probably right after I have them.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

i am going green function keys too acorn style means i will have to re glue the F10 key but meh

Hm, the A3010 has black function key legends. I wanted to go for the BBC Micro look on a Customizer, but then you need white legends on fire orange, and that's even more unlikely than white-on-black IBM keys (only place you'll get them from is dead M13s). Strangely I've seen group buys here with keys in the exact same olive drab shade as the Beeb's arrow and copy keys, but only for Cherry switches. (The FILCO case is too small to pass off as a Master Compact) (I didn't realise this, but my Packard Bell 486 rubberdome keyboard has Cherry compatible keycaps due to the use of plungers within the keys; the keycaps themselves have strengthening spars inside, which is unusual.)

However, the A3010 has the most gorgeous shade of blue-green for the function keys ...

[DryDry]

acer swtich is same as alps switch,we always think it is one kind of alps switch.

[andrewjoy]

However, the A3010 has the most gorgeous shade of blue-green for the function keys ...

Yeh i had one i regret getting rid ,was it rubber dome or mech i could never remember i was far too young ?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

acer swtich is same as alps switch,we always think it is one kind of alps switch.

No.

Yeh i had one i regret getting rid ,was it rubber dome or mech i could never remember i was far too young ?

Dome I think ... I think the Amiga models were also dome switch. The BBC Micro used various types of linear mechanical switches though. (I only had an A440/1 (?) and that just had effectively a cheap dome switch PC keyboard with different internal wiring to accomodate the through port for a mouse.)

[poxeclipse]

Acers are probably the most underated switch on this forum. They feel great, they sound great, and they are cheap. People only seem to ignore them because of the membrane, which makes no sense because the same people bob on the D of Topre which is a rubber dome.

I bet less than 1% of GH'ers have actually bothered trying them.

I'm using an Acer 6311, black Acer switches, since 1995. Very soft, I would say "delicate", switches, not for working class typists.
Still in great shape.