Type-S or standard for HHKB2 JP?

[ascii]

This forum is worse for wallets than head-fi.org.

I got a Realforce 87U Silent for home a few months ago.  That was the beginning of the end.  Then I had to get another for work- Same model, 87U Silent.  That takes care of two of the main places I use a keyboard now.  Next up:  Macbook Pro and iPad.  I made the mistake of hooking the Realforce up to my iPad for some messaging over the weekend and I'm hooked.  I had originally gone with an RF 87U instead of a HHKB because I wasn't sure if I'd like adjusting to the layout of the HHKB and lack of native arrow keys.

So that brings me to the HHKB JP model and the root of the quest(ions).  I think the Japanese layout version of the HHKB2 Pro would work better.  I could probably get used to the shortened space bar pretty well.  Other keys I should be able to remap if they annoy me.  First question would be:  Anyone here with a JP layout and any input on how well or poorly it adapts (or you adapt) to using it in a US/ANSI environment?

Second up:  Both of my realforce keyboards, as mentioned above, are the silent models.  I've listened to the videos of a guy banging away on a pair of HHKB and HHKB Type-S and didn't really think it was a good indication of the real sound that will be produced.  The question is kind of simple:  I'd like your thoughts and input on whether or not the "Type-S" option is worth the price premium over the standard.  For example:  The "standard JP" is currently ~$310 on geekstuff4u while the "Type-S JP" is pretty much $500*.  As I'm going to need to have either of these shipped to the US, I'd rather only have to do that once and pick the right one the first time.  I'm interested in the sound as well as key press feel.

Anyway, thanks for your input!

(*They have a "Sale" on a Type-S that claims you can pick US or JP layouts, but there is no way to do that.  An email back from them seemed to imply that although the photo indicated JP model, the sale one was something other than the JP layout and they directed me towards the standard JP model for $310 instead.)

[nar]

Well I have a JP layout topre and I use it two ways. When I plug it in on PS/2 it uses the normal JP layout that is useful for japanese and can be remapped for other IMEs as well. When I plug it into USB with a bluecube though, I get this wierd situtation where I have the US/ANSI layout, kind of, on the keyboard (For Example, press the key that is \ on US and ] on JP and you get \).

The JP layout is perfectly fine for typing, but for programming and such with heavy usage of brackets and other special characters. I find it a bit hard to adapt since pretty much every special character is in a different place. Now the wierd situtation I get when I use a bluecube I find is absolutely wonderful. All the special characters are where they should be and the small space bar doesn't bother me at all (In general where I used to hit the center of the spacebar, I know hit to the left, but it's small enough that it doesn't matter). The close by arrow keys are also great.

On another note, you'll see from my signature I'm not using a HHKB JP, rather I'm using the OEM Topre HE0100. It's slightly larger than the HHKB (It has a full set of F keys, and those other keys like Insert/Home/Delete etc...). I'd say the build quality is less than the solid Realforce build quality, but still as good as a Filco or what not. Key thing is it's a short throw 55g weighed switch so it definately feels different from other topres, but if your interested they are very cheap. A used version is up on taobao right now going for 900 RMB (Thats around 140USD).
http://item.beta.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8665571694

[hcry4]

This one?

[ascii]

Thanks for the info, Nar.  That looks like another potential option at a good price.  I anticipate this being a keyboard that lives in my backpack though, more compact is better.

This one?

Yep, that's the one.  

This is the slightly confusing response.  But hey, Type-S JP for $310?  I'll take two

This is *** from GS4U customer service. Thank you for the inquiry and our apology for the confusion.  Item on sale at our GS4U web site is not the correct one. Picture you see on sales item is what you are looking for, Japanese 69 key model and # is PD-KB420WS and price is $310, currently available at our website.  Item on sale is HHKB Professiona 2 Model # PD-KB400WS. and sale price is $496.  We are almost going to sell you the keyboard that you don't want with very high price. Since they make less for the TypeS  in English, price is higher than  Professional JP.
Again sorry for the confusion and thank you for finding our mistake.

So... According to PFU, ( http://www.pfu.co.jp/hhkeyboard/type-s/# ), PD-KB420WS is the correct board.  http://www.geekstuff4u.com/happy-hacking-keyboard-pro-2-japanese.html was the link they sent back.  I'm going to have to guess it's just a miscommunication.  Thoughts?

[hcry4]

Yea, $310 is the price for the regular JP and the Type-S JP that I linked is discounted to $496. I was considering buying it too since it said only 1 left. If you buy it, then I don't have to consider it anymore!

[ascii]

It's a $530 gamble though.  With the odds stacked in favor of getting a standard US model.  I could order a US model from EK if I wanted one of those...

[hcry4]

EK is much faster too; beat the one I ordered from GS4U.

[ascii]

I'd be more than happy to order (a third keyboard) from EK.  But what do you think the chances of them being willing to get me a JP model would be?

[guilleguillaume]

I ordered one of those white Japanese HHKB from GS4U. I'm not an ANSI user so I won't be able to tell if it's suitable for you.

It will be shipped tomorrow and I would be able to share some experience when I receive it. It was this one:

http://www.geekstuff4u.com/happy-hacking-keyboard-pro-2-japanese.html

This is not the Silent version of this keyboard, just the standard. I've never tried Silent models so I can't compare it but don't judge the differende from that vide of a crazy man spamming the poor keys, listen to these ones:

[video=youtube;5QKqXaQw3BM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QKqXaQw3BM[/video]

[video=youtube;tckKjmTraxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tckKjmTraxQ&feature=related[/video]

I enjoy the sound of standard Topre and it's cheaper...the decission was quite easy. There are other users here that use that keyboard but they haven't been online for months.

By the way this is an interesting mod I found:

[video=youtube;G7RaGXm27QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RaGXm27QA&list=FLLW4WlCwh1x33Yo9rr_50yw&index=3&feature=plpp_video[/video]

I love that music! :whoo:

[hcry4]

GS4U is slow, but they'll get you the correct model. They helped me resolve my HHKB wrist rest order when they found that the natural color was discontinued. Gave me a choice of refund but I thought it was easier to just get them both in black.

[ascii]

Nice videos.  I guess I could always do up a set of rings in the laser cutter we have at work.  I sort of "played along" on the RF silent I've got at home.  The most apparent thing is that with the "silent" models I've got, the spacebar is the most loud key on the whole board, followed by backspace.  Just like on those.  The other keys do seem a lot better muffled.  The mod the guy did in the third video does make it sound closer to the silent/type-s, but not QUITE.  I'll probably know in the next few posts.

I know that I'll probably end up ordering through GS4U, just that I'm still contemplating whether having nicer silence is worth ~$248 in this case.

edit:  If the "sale" one was guaranteed to be the JP model, it would have been ordered before starting this post .

[hcry4]

Yea, I definitely prefer Type-S over the regular one, but the price difference is pretty ridiculous. I know if I were to buy another Topre, it would have to be the silent version though. So I can feel your pain.

[nar]

Wait they are selling the JP Type-S for $496 while on sale when the normal JP is $310??
You know that PFU sells JP Type-S keyboards direct for more than $100 less (29,800 Yen), even with buying agent fees to be able to get it you're only looking at a 5-10% fee at most (+ international shipping of course, but I assume the shipping charges are about the same).

Edit:
Here's the link to their direct sales store
http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/direct/hhkb/detail_hhkb-pro-jp-types.html

[ascii]

That's always nice to see... The price difference PFU is listing is a lot more reasonable and logical... Only about $61.  The search is still on

Edit:  thanks for the link.  Now to find a friend in Japan or figure out how to get them to ship to the US

[nar]

That's always nice to see... The price difference PFU is listing is a lot more reasonable and logical... Only about $61.  The search is still on

Edit:  thanks for the link.  Now to find a friend in Japan or figure out how to get them to ship to the US

There are buying agents that can buy stuff for you in Japan and ship it to you, like for Taobao but for most online stores in Japan.

I personally use Sere-nde and Tenso most but you'll need either to be able to understand Japanese or have a way of paying the store (not all stores accept international credit cards).
I saw someone here recommend J-goods, which looking at their prices (They charge a set fee per store/per item as opposed to a simple 5% of the purchase price) is probably best suited for buying a single $380 keyboard

[Dajm]

Out of curiosity: Do you guys know why Elitekeyboards doesn't carry the black HHKB in the silent-version?
Does it not exist in the US or... ?

[hcry4]

They never made it in black. I will absolutely buy it if they do.

[ascii]

I saw someone here recommend J-goods, which looking at their prices (They charge a set fee per store/per item as opposed to a simple 5% of the purchase price) is probably best suited for buying a single $380 keyboard

Just submitted an estimate request with j-goods.net to order one directly from PFU.  It looks like they currently have a ¥1200 fee + 5% of the total cost (minus the fee).  I'll post an update when I have one.

[ascii]

That was fairly quick...  In case anyone is interested:

PD-KB420WS  
(A) Goods price    29,800 JPY
(C) International postage    2,400 JPY
(D) Shipping insurance   50 JPY
(1) Commission fee   1,200 JPY
(3) System usage fee
[(A)+(B)+(C)+(D)]×5%    1,612 JPY
Total amount
(A)+(B)+(C)+(D)+(1)+(3)    35,062 JPY

So at today's rates... that would be ~$444 to order through j-goods

[RiGS]

I ordered one of those white Japanese HHKB from GS4U. I'm not an ANSI user so I won't be able to tell if it's suitable for you.

It will be shipped tomorrow and I would be able to share some experience when I receive it. It was this one:

http://www.geekstuff4u.com/happy-hacking-keyboard-pro-2-japanese.html

This is not the Silent version of this keyboard, just the standard. I've never tried Silent models so I can't compare it but don't judge the differende from that vide of a crazy man spamming the poor keys, listen to these ones:

[video=youtube;5QKqXaQw3BM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QKqXaQw3BM[/video]

[video=youtube;tckKjmTraxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tckKjmTraxQ&feature=related[/video]

I enjoy the sound of standard Topre and it's cheaper...the decission was quite easy. There are other users here that use that keyboard but they haven't been online for months.

By the way this is an interesting mod I found:

[video=youtube;G7RaGXm27QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RaGXm27QA&list=FLLW4WlCwh1x33Yo9rr_50yw&index=3&feature=plpp_video[/video]

I love that music! :whoo:

I like that RO-59 in the third video. It feels also awesome inside my vintage MX blacks.

[RiGS]

Sorry, it's too late, but maybe I can work out something for you.

[kaneotty]

Thank you for watching the my "silent mod" video.
For what of Type-S do you feel fascination?
Are you asking Type-S for a quiet sound?
If it is right, using "silent mod" may find happy.

[video=youtube;G7RaGXm27QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RaGXm27QA[/video]

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

[ascii]

Welcome to Geekhack!

I want the Type-S for the reduced key sound.  I would do a "silent mod" on a used HHKB, but would rather not mod a new keyboard.  The 68 key, Japanese layout is very hard to find here, used or new.

Thank you for making the silent mod and silent mod video.    What type of rubber or plastic did you use to make the rings?

[kaneotty]

I used 1mm silicon rubber.
I think that there is little deterioration, it was judged that it was the best for HHKB.
Silicon rubber is cut at the outside diameter 10mm, and  inside diameter 8mm.

I have Type-S, but like silent mod which I made with oneself.

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

[pandaologist]

Thank you for watching the my "silent mod" video.
For what of Type-S do you feel fascination?
Are you asking Type-S for a quiet sound?
If it is right, using "silent mod" may find happy.

[video=youtube;G7RaGXm27QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RaGXm27QA[/video]

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

What is that music?

[RiGS]

I used 1mm silicon rubber.
I think that there is little deterioration, it was judged that it was the best for HHKB.
Silicon rubber is cut at the outside diameter 10mm, and  inside diameter 8mm.

I have Type-S, but like silent mod which I made with oneself.

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

Does it reduce the key travel before actuation?

[kaneotty]

Music title is "TOWN" from a "Idol Master" of japanese game.
I'm not gamer, I don't know the details of "Idol Master".
What I used on a video is for "Hatsune Miku" remix version.

Original music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Pa5ZHF3Eo

Hatsune Miku remix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JevNmW1KwPE

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

[kaneotty]

Does it reduce the key travel before actuation?

Key strokes decreased from 4mm to 3mm in comparison with before remodeling.
This is because it uses the silicon rubber of 1mm.
I think that there is not the change except it.
By the way, the key stroke of Type-S is 3.8mm.

I'm sorry if I cannot answer your question well.

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

[nhwhaup]

I also love the silent Realforces and have two - one for work and one at home. I can't speak for the HHKB but I've had the regular and like the "silent " so much better.  I agree that the spacebar was not silent. I put soft landing pads on both keyboards so that the spacebars sound the same as the rest.

I have a Poker that I use for traveling but would definitely purchase one more keyboard (which would be the very last) if I could find a HHKB with the dedicated arrow keys.  I found that's the only downfall with the Poker.   So I'm with you.

[RiGS]

Key strokes decreased from 4mm to 3mm in comparison with before remodeling.
This is because it uses the silicon rubber of 1mm.
I think that there is not the change except it.
By the way, the key stroke of Type-S is 3.8mm.

I'm sorry if I cannot answer your question well.

[I'm japanese. My English is poor, sorry!]

Thanks. That's what I thought.

[seferphier]

I also love the silent Realforces and have two - one for work and one at home. I can't speak for the HHKB but I've had the regular and like the "silent " so much better.  I agree that the spacebar was not silent. I put soft landing pads on both keyboards so that the spacebars sound the same as the rest.

I have a Poker that I use for traveling but would definitely purchase one more keyboard (which would be the very last) if I could find a HHKB with the dedicated arrow keys.  I found that's the only downfall with the Poker.   So I'm with you.

because of the sound or the feel?