Stiff HHKB Topre switches (comparison to Cherry Brown)

[Aranair]

Hey guys, received a new hhkb pro 2 delivered from Amazon JP and tenso.com (manufactured in 2011-11)

After using it for a day and some hours pretty intensively, I still feel that the keys are still significantly stiffer than my filco browns. So to confirm that my perception isn't some illusion, I set out to do a simple actuation force test, using the Nickels/coins method (since I have absolutely no access to more accurate equipment)

I used Singapore ten 20cent coins, which are approximately 4.5g each, which makes a nice 45g stack. And some 10cent coins, which are 2.6g each.
This test is NOT to test the actual actuation force of the HHKB or the Filco cherry browns. It is primarily for a personal comparison between the two because the HHKB was feeling way stiffer than the cherry browns. So, before anyone bashes this method, systematic errors are irrelevant because I am doing a comparison and the same error would have been roughly applied to the two switches. Random errors is removed by repeating the experiment a number of times and getting the average. Also, I placed the coins directly above the keys because thats what I'm concerned with and not directly on the domes/switches. (again should be irrelevant because I'm using the same method on both)

On average, for the Filco Cherry browns, it took the main stack + two 10cent coins to actuate which adds up to about 50g? (the ten cent coins seem abit worn out so I rounded it off to 2.5g lol)

For the HHKB, not outside of my expectation, it took the main stack + five to six 10cent coins to actuate and bottom out, which adds up to almost 65g and more.

This confirms my perception that the Topre switches these new HHKB use, seems to be quite significantly harder to depress than my Browns so much so that I found it quite fatiguing in a short while, say an hour of typing. Not to mention that I am bottoming out ALOT more which really isn't that healthy even though the sound is satisfyingly nice-sounding.

Do you guys think that it needs even more time to break in? Are there any other known reasons that the Topre switches behave this way? And most importantly, are there any ways to change this? (way too fatiguing for me)

Also, if anyone would like me to repeat the experiment in some other way, and its not too troublesome I may consider

[limmy]

I would recommend using the board at least a week. Many people recommend that. However, when I first got my HHKB, I didn't feel any discomfort. It was only after 3 years or so when I began to feel the stiffness as well as friction on the sliders.

If you want to see whether rubber itself is stiff, I would recommend taking the keys off and then measure with the weight. In order to minimize the effect of friction and focus on the force from rubber dome, I would slightly shake the weight. If the keys are on, the weight is likely to press the sliders against the wall of the housing due to the angle of the keys.

Also, it seems rubbers age(harden) faster in high temperature environment. I say that since you are in a comparably hot country.

If it turns out it is the friction, you could lubricate it. But I don't personally think it is the friction because it is a new board.

[Aranair]

Thanks Ripster, appreciate that. Hopefully it'll go away in a day or two as well. That slight stiffening is causing much discomfort imo.

Mmm, I was going to give it abit more time to break in but I saw someone with an informal test with results showing that rubber domes tend to stiffen over time and so I thought it should be the "softest" when its new!

Also, thanks for the suggestion, limmy. The part about friction could be true. I do find that when I turn the coins or move the coins slightly in any direction sometimes it just actuates. I'll try it out with the keys off tonight (damn that means I need to dismantle a whole lot of things.)

I doubt temperature is the problem. Its JUST been delivered from Japan which I believe is relatively cool and its been in my air-conditioned room ever since ;P

I'll continue to post some thoughts and maybe results here, in case anyone with a new topre board is feeling the same.

[limmy]

I was recommending to take the key caps off, not the whole disassembly. (I somehow feel that you understood me that way.)

You can purchase a key cap puller or make one yourself with strings, paper clips and etc. There are many DIY ideas, but I prefer wire puller or any other variation of it. I like them because it has no sharp edges that could potentially scratch your keys. You can make one with two small paper clips.

[seferphier]

Thanks Ripster, appreciate that. Hopefully it'll go away in a day or two as well. That slight stiffening is causing much discomfort imo.

Mmm, I was going to give it abit more time to break in but I saw someone with an informal test with results showing that rubber domes tend to stiffen over time and so I thought it should be the "softest" when its new!

Also, thanks for the suggestion, limmy. The part about friction could be true. I do find that when I turn the coins or move the coins slightly in any direction sometimes it just actuates. I'll try it out with the keys off tonight (damn that means I need to dismantle a whole lot of things.)

I doubt temperature is the problem. Its JUST been delivered from Japan which I believe is relatively cool and its been in my air-conditioned room ever since ;P

I'll continue to post some thoughts and maybe results here, in case anyone with a new topre board is feeling the same.

i felt the same when i got my 86u. i think topre's are stiffer in general than cherry browns. i think you will get used to it soon but may still prefer the browns.

[Aranair]

@Limmy,
I do have a keypuller. Just did it without the keys...and the results are similar at about 60-65g heh. After a whole day of coding yesterday, it does not seem to be softening. I think this stiffness is here to stay lol. I do notice that my fingers are getting abit more used to the heavy hammerish tactile because when I switch back to my Filcos, i feel something missing heh.

@seferphier,
Yeah, they do seem stiffer, even though the actuation charts are almost similar to cherry browns. The tactile bump feels way way way different as well!
Unfortunately, at this moment, I still do prefer the browns.