Feel of buckling springs over years and years

[blakespot]

How different will a 20 year old IBM Model M feel than it's modern analog, a new Unicomp? Does years of spring action change the feel?

Thanks.




bp

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Alot of people say that IBM Model Ms are still superior to their Unicomp counter-parts... but having never owned a BS Unicomp, I personally have not compared the two.

[jkercado]

I have. I have to say that the Unicomps feel crisper, with lower force on the keys. I love my Model M, but the Unicomp, in my opinion, offers a better typing experience, especially after long hours.

[fohat.digs]

You will hear people disparaging the Unicomp product and claiming that the quality is inferior.

The differences are subtle and you would have to use both, and really pay attention, to experience much of anything.

If you have never had a buckling spring keyboard, I recommend a new Unicomp with a native USB plug. If you like it, then start working your way back into vintage stuff if you want.

Disclaimer: My own collection of half a dozen Model Ms is heavily weighted (pun intended) to the really old, heavy, IBM battleship models. I do not currently own any Lexmarks or Unicomps, but I would still recommend them to a first-timer. They are modern, not particularly expensive, and warranted problem-free.

PS - my heavily-modded "premier" specimen is a 1986 model 1390131 with 2010 Unicomp springs (thanks, demik)

[jkercado]

You will hear people disparaging the Unicomp product and claiming that the quality is inferior.

The differences are subtle and you would have to use both, and really pay attention, to experience much of anything.

If you have never had a buckling spring keyboard, I recommend a new Unicomp with a native USB plug. If you like it, then start working your way back into vintage stuff if you want.

Disclaimer: My own collection of half a dozen Model Ms is heavily weighted (pun intended) to the really old, heavy, IBM battleship models. I do not currently own any Lexmarks or Unicomps, but I would still recommend them to a first-timer. They are modern, not particularly expensive, and warranted problem-free.

PS - my heavily-modded "premier" specimen is a 1986 model 1390131 with 2010 Unicomp springs (thanks, demik)

Agree 100%.

[0100010]

I have zero complaints with my Unicomp BS.  But - I have not used an original Model M in well over 15 years to provide an accurate comparison against.

[1391406]

The differences are subtle and you would have to use both, and really pay attention, to experience much of anything.

This might be true for you, however in a blind taste test I could easily distinguish between the two in terms of sound and feel. I doubt anyone would deny Unicomp's emit far less ping than original Model M's, which I prefer. However, I think it's generally agreed that IBM manufactured Model M's weigh more, don't creak, and incorporate more rigid plastic, which I prefer.

For me, the best of both worlds would be to transplant the innards of a Unicomp Classic into the body of an IBM manufactured Model M.

[BucklingSpring]

Is it me or no one answered his question?

He is not asking about quality... He is asking about feel changes over the years.

Shame on me I don't have much of an answer either. I whish I had a photographic tactile memory and just replay the first  time I typed on a spanking new M.

All I can say is they age well if they were not too exposed to chemicals and/or abuse. They can look very dirty and be revived almsot like new just with a good cleaning.

Why are you asking?

I suspect Unicomp still might have original blueprints with specs. You can ask them what was the spring specs of the originals.

[fohat.digs]

I think that the question "do springs deteriorate with age and use?" has been asked countless times and never been satisfactorily answered.

Having owned a couple of dozen Model Ms from 1986 originals through mid-2000s Unicomps, I don't have an answer, either.

There are differences, significant ones, between old IBM products and new Unicomp ones, but I think that they are the result of many factors. My guess is that the springs and the keycaps are some of the components that have changed the least.

As far as I know, steel does not fatigue very much, particularly not in a keyboard environment, and I suspect that the tolerances on springs are pretty large.

Differences in "feel" and "sound" probably arise from a whole spectrum of variables.

[jkercado]

I answered the question. I mentioned that the Unicomps feel lighter, slinkier. So, assuming that basically they have the same build and materials, the net result is that the buckling springs stiffen a bit with age.

[1391406]

I wish I had a photographic tactile memory and just replay the first  time I typed on a spanking new M.

This is the crux of the challenge with answering the OP's second question.

[urbanus]

I think that the question "do springs deteriorate with age and use?" has been asked countless times and never been satisfactorily answered.

There is a subtle degradation with age, but I think it depends on how much the keyboard in question was used.  It's a known fact that helical springs suffer metal fatigue after long use.  The springs become less "springy": a little soggy and unresponsive.  That's not a huge issue, of course: you can swap out the springs for a fresh set.

Having said that, I think much of the supposed difference in feel is actually subjective impressions, influenced by other factors such as sound.  I did a small double-blind test myself with a Unicomp and an old model M.  With headphones on (no audible click) and without seeing the keyboard, I couldn't feel any significant difference.

There could also be influence from expectations.  You tend to see a lot of opinions that old ones feel so, while Unicomps feel such, and that this one is "better" than that or whatever.  I think that also colours people's impressions.

So yes I agree, and I think the reason why the question has never been satisfactorily answered is because any effect of aging is very subtle and too open to subjective impressions.

[hakujin]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35884.0 was an interesting thread similar to this where a few people discussed the differences between IBM and Unicomp variants.  I own both and the M's construction is miles ahead of Unicomp.  Key feel is more subjective.  In the thread I linked, the actual game changer between the Unicomp and M boards was the rubber mat inside and not the springs/hammers. Maybe the solution is original Model M chassis with new Unicomp springs, hammers, and mat?

[VesperSAINT]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321001327689?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Was this a good deal on this keyboard? I was watching it and wanted to bid but my brother stopped me. Lol.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post but this seemed the most relevant thread on the page.

[bazemk1979]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321001327689?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Was this a good deal on this keyboard? I was watching it and wanted to bid but my brother stopped me. Lol.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post but this seemed the most relevant thread on the page.

Its a good deal because of the fact seller says its NEW and smells like the factory plastic, also its a good deal since its the metal square logo but the later version that was made by Lexmark. I was going to bid on it $60 and probably win it but Ilast night I ended up purchasing this 2 babies :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236302

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082808&p_id=7562&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

[bazemk1979]

BTW I bought the monitor from J&R because included shipping price was $300 instead of $320 like on Newegg, here is the link http://www.jr.com/asus/pe/ASU_VS278QP/

[bettablue]

Personally, I would prefer the original Model M over any of the Unicomp offerings. But that is just me.  Many people prefer one or the other.  Like someone stated, the differences are subtle.  I have all new springs in my Model M, and absolutely love the crispness.  It's because of that, that when my Model M blew a controller, I did everything I could to save the board.  I'm glad I did.  A new replacement controller from Unicomp did the trick.  And I still have my Model M. 

Honestly though, you would have to make your own judgement.