is KBT Pure worth it?

[ajx]

Sorry if there are another threads related to my question
i m wondering if it would be worth to buy KBT Pure over KBC Poker
i am not really interested about blacklit.
do they add anything else then blacklit?

[fossala]

If it is anything like the poker it isn't worth it anyway. They are such poor quality. By far the worst mech keyboard I have owned.

[Rumudiez]

Harsh words from a Happyhacking owner..
KBC Pokers are of fine build quality despite a few "typos" which do not affect the board's capabilities.

I am personally waiting to buy a Pure, although they have been delayed for quite awhile and it's still uncertain when they'll be available in the US, so if you need or want a keyboard anytime soon, look elsewhere.

[fossala]

They are not fine. They are a toy. As your daily driver it is not good enough. The HHKB is leagues ahead of a poker. I have heard pokers improve 10x with a metal case.

[Roguemaster8]

What makes an HHKB God's gift to the world? It's in a plastic case just like the Poker.

Seriously, I want to know. Sometimes I wonder if I should just sell every keyboard I own so I can afford a Topre.

[GeorgeStorm]

Argh I hate this forum and it's constant loss of threads/posts.

I strongly disagree with fossala, I currently use a Poker as my daily driver without issue. I've had a Ducky, Filco, Noppoo and this is my 2nd Poker (gave my first to my brother who also fell in love with it)
I would be more than happy with any of them as my daily driver, although both my Pokers are my favourite (this one has blues, my other reds)
I'll be getting an alu case shortly, so will be interesting to see the affect it has.

[G.C.W.]

Glad you enjoy it GeorgeStorm : )
It even made it in your sig

[Nighted]

The Poker is a fine keyboard. Don't let others convince you otherwise. The build quality is fine, certainly much better than the keyboards found in big box stores. Improvements have been made to the fonts and the caps lock key window is fixed (at least on the abs keys, can't speak for the pbt right now).

Not everyone thinks Topres are the quintessential switch. Some people actually PREFER Cherry (believe it or not!).

I find no difference in enjoyment when typing on my Pokers compared to my Filco either. The end typing experience is the same: input words on keyboard, output words on screen...and the mechanical effect persists.

Less is sometimes more.

[Squelos]

The Poker is a fine keyboard. Don't let others convince you otherwise. The build quality is fine, certainly much better than the keyboards found in big box stores. Improvements have been made to the fonts and the caps lock key window is fixed (at least on the abs keys, can't speak for the pbt right now).

Not everyone thinks Topres are the quintessential switch. Some people actually PREFER Cherry (believe it or not!).

I find no difference in enjoyment when typing on my Pokers compared to my Filco either. The end typing experience is the same: input words on keyboard, output words on screen...and the mechanical effect persists.

Less is sometimes more.

Yeah, but even the people that prefere Cherry switches dont deny that Topre's are good, and neither do they deny that the build of topre boards are near perfect.

[ajx]

people should consider good value for money firstly, yes for its price, poker is worth it
hhkb is awesome according owner's opinions about it
but some people cannot spend all their money for such keyboard
i am just comparing poker and pure
nearly same quality' of built except those some additional stuff (blacklit, better layout...)
wheras you can find poker anywhere (for some reason, it seems to be out of stock for now) at moderate price (~99 usd), i am not sure pure is worth it (over 150 usd? )

[GeorgeStorm]

Another issue with the Pure is its release, if it's ever going to happen

I would just pick up a Poker, you won't be disappointed

[J-P]

Edit: I talk a lot of crap, you can just skip to the bold text.

The build quality on the Poker is not great... but it's  not really meant to be. By 'not great' i mean, I can see where the plastic was molded... the sticker on the back is just covered with thin laminate (and inkjet printed?)... it's pretty basic and no-frills. There is no plate, its PCB mounted cherry switches screwed into a plastic case... but this does the job as far as I can see - it's certainly nothing to be worried about.

Comparing it to a HHKBpro is like comparing a kit car with a porsche. Don't get me wrong - I like the Poker and I use it every day. I'm just not going to lie and say it's built amazingly well. It's functional. Both cars will get you from A to B... but one will cost you significantly more and have no back seats.

The layout for the Pure is in this thread and that is the main difference (other than LED's).

If I'm honest, I think I prefer the layout I use on the Poker (especially WASD cursors) - I'm tempted to get a pure when it's out though. I'm assuming the build quality will be the same (and I have no problem with that). My poker came with a 'servicable' set of PBT caps. I actually prefer the slightly slippery feel of ABS... so I'm replacing them (purdy colours ahoy).

The only (very minor) thing that bugs me about the Poker is its 'Esc/~' key; and having to swap into Fn+Q mode (Esc Lock). If  that layout is to be believed, it looks like Esc, is just Esc... which fixes that problem. No massive dealbreakers though - I'm looking forward to getting the metal cases and putting a sponge layer under the PCB for a bit of stability, that - along with a heavier aluminium case, should get rid of the plastic-cheapo feel.

The other issue with the Poker (which I haven't seen mentioned much) is that Caps/Tab keys don't have stabilizers so can have a lot of side to side wobble... Mind you, my Leopold which both weighs and costs a lot more (and is less portable) suffers from the same problem. Also, when removing keys, you have to be careful you don't yank too hard... I nearly ripped the stabilizers out of my enter key. I think that's the ONLY issue I have with PCB mounted keys, its easy to snag them if pulling them out with the tool... that's a pretty minor point. It doesn't effect any functionality.

I own and use the RealForce Topre105uk at home (which is nice but huge) and at work I use the Poker (with MX-blues) every day, I've now gotten so used to the poker layout that I automatically keep hitting alt+W/A/S/D instead of using cursor keys... There's no point comparing Pure/Race/Poker to the HHKB or RealForce... (build wise) These are simple PCB mounted MX-keys shoved into a very basic plastic case, they are not meant to be an example of brilliant engineering.

I think it speaks volumes, that for most people, even this cheapo little keyboard outclasses the vast amount of **** OEM keyboards you can buy in stores. I had to type on rubber domes this morning ... ugh. UGH! :doh: if anything, the only bad point, is that the price point is a little high for what you get. So, it probably IS worth it, but as other have said, you might as well get a Poker

[Rinsaku]

Agreed with Nighted, I have a Poker and a HHKB pro 2 and to be honest i think the build quality if just fine on the poker. I think alot of people tend to think the
Poker feels cheap because it is light in weight and the casing isnt exactly the sleekest cut. But overall i dont think there is much difference other than the hhkb could takemore of a beating, but i dont beat my keyboards.

[anselben]

I had my das sent in for a replacement and they accidentally sent my replacement to my parents house which is 3 states away instead of my house. I'm waiting to go back there to get it so I've been using my KBC poker as my daily driver and it's working fine. even for a 'toy'

[ChaoticKinesis]

I don't understand why some mention their "toy" Poker, its cheap build quality, etc., but then use its cheap price tag as the justification. The Poker is generally over $100 shipped, which is more than a number of popular Cherry MX keyboards. If talking about price, wouldn't it make sense to compare its build quality against other keyboards in the same price range?

[fstop]

Agreed with Nighted, I have a Poker and a HHKB pro 2 and to be honest i think the build quality if just fine on the poker. I think alot of people tend to think the
Poker feels cheap because it is light in weight and the casing isnt exactly the sleekest cut. But overall i dont think there is much difference other than the hhkb could takemore of a beating, but i dont beat my keyboards.

To be fair, HHKB is not known for being the best build quality either. Realforce are probably the most solidly built mechanical aside from customs.

I don't know how you guys didn't manage to experience flex on a poker. That's the problem for me and why they feel cheap, I would have to get an alu case if I ever got a poker and we all know those aren't cheap. At least they're becoming more readily available.

[Nighted]

Find another compact design like a Poker for that price. Not happening if you want a tiny board with a standard set of keys. You can easily find key sets for it if you desire as well. If you break the cord, you can replace it, you can modify the functions a bit. Filco doesn't offer those feature and it's more expensive.

Only other option is HHKB which is up to $500 depending on what you want. No thanks!
Well....I suppose there's the HHBK Lite for ~$80.

Not everyone wants a giant Filco on their desk. Poker is perfect for FPS gaming, programming and typing.

[mkawa]

if you type lightly on a poker you won't feel much if any flex, actually. that said, i don't type lightly.

[mSSM]

How the hell are you typing in order to feel the flex? Steam hammer??

[ajx]

Another issue with the Pure is it's release, if it's ever going to happen

I would just pick up a Poker, you won't be disappointed

by the way, anyone knows when it will be release?

[suprsmo]

I love my poker.. Had put some PBT keycaps on it when I first got it and  just last night put some 50 Dm Orings on it.. !

And wow.. She feels fkn great.. i think I remember someone describing this particular setup as the closest thing to a Topre?

Id be inclined to agree. ( to a degree)

Typing on it right now at work whilst my Topre is in the drawer (safely).

Love it.. cant recommend it highly enough.

[mkawa]

How the hell are you typing in order to feel the flex? Steam hammer??

i beat the crap out of keyboards. my officemates have complained about the typing noise from my corner of the office with scissor switches lol

[fstop]

How the hell are you typing in order to feel the flex? Steam hammer??

It's not so much when I type (although I easily feel the flex when I'm typing at my fastest ~120wpm) but I get flex while I'm gaming.

And I play League of Legends, a game designed for raging.

[mkawa]

vortex has mentioned production problems with the keys on facebook, so i suspect it would speed up production quite a bit for them to sell DIY kits. that said, DIY kits cut out a lot of their margin, so it probably isn't something they want to pursue in the long term.

[Roguemaster8]

Those DIY kits are insanely pricey, aluminium case or not.

Is there an option yet for just the normal plastic case?

[Squelos]

Well, i think the main problem is that the keyboard is PCB mounted, which, is already a pretty important downside.

[oneproduct]

I don't see why PCB mounted switches are necessarily a down side, I almost think I prefer PCB mounted switches more. A _little_ bit of flex is probably actually a good thing. It's kind of like the same idea as o-rings cushioning the impact. The PCB absorbs a little bit of shock unlike the metal plates which just give all the shock back to your fingers, like having overly stiff suspension. I have some cherry MX keyboards which use plate mounting, some that use PCB mounting, and some Realforces and I think that I prefer the PCB mounted ones the most.

I think that we're falling prey to the same kind of "gamer buzz" that we chastise people who like Razer keyboards and the like do. Metal plate = automatically better? Bigger price tag = automatically better? Is a keyboard better when it feels "solid" or when it feels smooth and comfortable? I think that all this talk about being solidly built is mostly nonsense when saying that a Realforce is so much better built that other things (the Poker is probably a rare case where build quality is relevant). How exactly is it much better than a Filco for example? Does it survive a hit with a hammer better? People always just say "it feels solid" with no real explanations other than the cost and other people influencing their thoughts. I know that the Realforce has a million screws attaching the PCB to the metal plate having taking it apart before, but do I actually notice any difference compared to something that has fewer? Not really. The comparisons of solidity become even less relevant when comparing Filcos, Leopolds, Rosewills and CM Storms as the differences become even more minuscule.

And then the HHKB bugs the hell out of me with the people saying it is the perfect programmer's keyboard with their Fn key and arrow keys being all the way on the right side of the keyboard instead of being near the home positions. Surely some people who own HHKBs must use Vim or something similar and see how horrible that is?

The Poker and Pure do a better job of this with their function layers kept near the home positions. For people with a HHKB, without first setting your fingers on the left and right arrow keys on the function layer, try hitting Home or End without any sort of home position to guide your fingers. How do you reliably find the Home button without something to guide you? Are you just use to the feeling of overstretching as your index finger reaches two columns over from the left arrow where it would be comfy, something that you never have to do when normally using a keyboard (the index finger only stretches one column)? Try doing this two dozen times, resetting your right hand to the home position each time then moving it back to the Fn key without putting your fingers on the arrows and honestly tell me if you press the wrong key at least a few times. On the poker/pure, you don't have to move your right hand all the way to the right, and you can find the home/end keys reliably and quickly by only having to move a finger one position off the home position.

There is also no good reason for the HHKB to be missing keys at the bottom corners. Even if you put control on the caps lock key, the bottom corners, particularly the left, are very accessible positions (try pressing down on these with the part of your hand where the base of your fingers meets your palm). Having a single control key is also unergonomic as you are suppose to hold modifiers with the hand opposite the one that is pressing the key that is being modified, which becomes impossible in many cases now. Also for people such as myself who use caps lock as backspace, which is more beneficial than having control there when typing and debatable when programming, not having the standard control keys is a nuisance. For those that do like that control key location, the keys in the bottom corners could easily serve as something else instead of just wasting space with the void that is there now.

[nicholaspeterson]

I don't understand the comment about vim and arrow keys, you don't use the arrow keys in vim?

[davkol]

I don't understand the comment about vim and arrow keys, you don't use the arrow keys in vim?

hjkl—I have no idea why oneproduct claims Vim users should see an issue.

[Binge]

love my pure, nuff said