keyboard advice

[bigpook]

clicky/mechanical keyboards advice.

Hey guys, I am looking for advice as to the next keyboard I need to try.

I have the model m's and unicomp boards and like the buckling spring action. I like the clicky noise they make too.

What keyboards would you reccommend that fall into the same category. Those that have good tactile feel and a clicky sound. It doesn't have to be super loud but some sound is nice. I can do mini or full size boards so thats not such a big deal.

Anyways, let me know what you all think.

PS. I read most of the posts here, and most of you all have strong opinions. The guys that have this thing for the cherry switches are the most informative. THough I think I will need to make a spreadsheet to keep track of each cherry switch and their particular attributes. And the HHKB Pro 2 seems to be held in very high esteem. Though someone has posted that it is not clicky, does that mean it makes no sound at all when the key is pressed? That would be no fun for me, but everything else about the HHKB Pro 2 seems appealing. Please elaborate, if you would.
I am looking forward to your responses.

[Bluemercury]

Well, since i own two model M keyboards, and two cherry switch ones(Blue and black), i can say if you go for a cherrey switch keyboard, you may want to stay out of the black based ones, they dont click at all, and there's no tactil feel at all.....still havent found a brown switch keyboard with a at least an euro based layout to compare with the blue ones which according to fellow geeks around here are the ones who click louder from the cherry brand.....For europeans i think buying a cheap cherry keyboard with at least a black switches is a good option since then you can take all the keys for a keyboard you actually like but might not come with layout for your country.....

[iMav]

I personally love the blue cherry keyswitches.  I would characterize them as "light and clicky".  I have a SMK-88 with blue cherries...If it wasn't for some issues with the key layout, it would be my primary 'board.

My favorite thing about my HHKB Pro is the key layout.  But know that the keys DO feel quite nice.  They are mostly linear...however, there is a bit more resistance at the very beginning of the keystroke.  There are several youtube videos for you to get an idea of what the sound like.

[jemkeys]

The sound of the HHKB Pro2 has a sound like no other.  I own a 1990 Model M and a few rubber membrane keyboards, and the HHKB Pro2 sounds just beautiful.

It definitely makes a sound when you type normally, but if you typed really slowly and tried to make it silent with very exact, careful finger-pressure: you could make it dead silent.  But even light-fingered normal typing produces that very distinctive sound.

After using buckling-springs, you'll be taken-aback by the light finger pressure.  I sure was.  But I got used to it in about a day, and now buckling springs feel way too strong for my taste.

On the HHKB Pro2:  if the looks don't make passers-by take notice, the sound sure will.

[xsphat]

After a night at work on the Filco, I sit here and type this on my Pro 2 and I have to say, or reiterate, that the Cherry brown switches are my favorites but the Topre capacitives in the HHKB Pro 2 are a close second.

And if by click you mean the sound of the keys bottoming out, sure, all mechanical keyboards make some noise. Here is my take on that: The HHKB Pro keyboards sound great, but search YouTube for a Topre keyboard and listen to the sound they make. It is quite similar to the HHKB Pro but distinct in a different way. The Cherry browns sound a lot like the Cherry blacks in my SMK 88, but the HHKB sounds better.

But these are both alternate action / soft touch mechanisms and by that rational, not too tactile. If the feel of the key needs to be strong and a little more forceful, check out some Alps switches. The pink, orange, black (new ones, not old) or white switches should do the trick for you.

[IBI]

you may want to stay out of the black based ones, they dont click at all, and there's no tactil feel at all.....

Tactile just means that you can feel something when you press the keys down, the black cherries are tactile in that they have a noticible force pushing the key back up, but it's a smooth action with no tactile or audible click.

still havent found a brown switch keyboard with a at least an euro based layout to compare with the blue ones which according to fellow geeks around here are the ones who click louder from the cherry brand

The datasheet of cherry's website does say that the G80-3000 with brown cherries does come in german and swiss layouts which I think are the shape you're looking for: http://www.cherry.co.uk/english/products/cable_keyboards_g80-3000.htm

.....For europeans i think buying a cheap cherry keyboard with at least a black switches is a good option since then you can take all the keys for a keyboard you actually like but might not come with layout for your country.....

Unfortunately I don't think that'd work perfectly since some of the keys are the wrong shape and the new keyboard wouldn't have all the appropriate switches. You could certainly transfer any accent and currency keys you wanted for your language though. You might also be able to do the same trick with the G81 FTSC keyboards if they use the same key mounting.

[Bluemercury]

Well i have the G80-3000 but with the Portuguese layout and all the keys work with the DAS KEYBOARD II, but you're probably since this keyboard is based on the G80. Anyway i would gladly buy a G80 with brown cherrys....but finding it is the problem.....

[bigpook]

It's going to take a bit to digest all this. I wish there was a keyboard store I could go to and try out all of the models. Wouldn't that be sweet?

The HHKB Pro 2 looks promising, but at $300......I want to know without a doubt that I would like the board.

If I am not mistaken. it seems I may like something with brown cherry switches. But they seem pricey too.



dang, its not like I can go down to best buy or circuit city to give them a go.

[xsphat]

I know the feeling, I wish I could have tried some before I bought them too. Maybe you live near one us, but even that is doubtful.

[bigpook]

for whatever its worth, I live in Ellenton, Florida. About an hour south of Tampa.


So, let me ask this. If I like the buckling spring boards so much, what would be a good choice in a modern keyboard? It could be full size or mini. Not having a windows key is a plus, but alas, I could deal with it if I had to.

I am perfectly happy with my model m spacesaver. With my kensington expert mouse on the left hand side.
So I should probably stop and be happy. Not to be to dramatic, but like a moth to the flame.....I keep thinking there is a more perfect keyboard out there. I just don't want to lay out the money to test them all : )

I went through this with mice, it took awhile too. From corded to wireless, to trackball. For whatever reason, I put a high priority on mice and keyboards. I got past the actual computer, thats just so much hardware in a box.

[bigpook]

The datasheet of cherry's website does say that the G80-3000 with brown cherries does come in german and swiss layouts which I think are the shape you're looking for: http://www.cherry.co.uk/english/products/cable_keyboards_g80-3000.htm

From the link I see this, notice at the bottom it says 3 different key actions.

does that mean in combination(?) or 3 different types of keyboards?


Key benefits:
   104 and 105 keys
   High-quality keyboard for demanding users
   PS/2-or USB Interface
   Uses Cherry MX key switches based on Gold Crosspoint technology, tried and tested millions of times over
   Reliability:
MCBF =1 x 10 9 operations
MTBF >80,000 hours
   Individual keys have long service life: >50 million operations
   Precision switching
   Keycap symbols are wear-resistant and easy to clean
   3 different key actions:
Linear action
soft contact
keyclick

[Ulysses31]

I'm curious to know how you can tell which colour is in each keyboard, when that datasheet doesn't specify?  Is it like this; Linear=Black, Soft-Brown, Click=Blue?  I've emailed the people at Cherry Europe but they didn't respond.

[ashort]

I'm curious to know how you can tell which colour is in each keyboard, when that datasheet doesn't specify?  Is it like this; Linear=Black, Soft-Brown, Click=Blue?  I've emailed the people at Cherry Europe but they didn't respond.

You're either prodding the vendor or going on the experience of others, or of your experience for this. That's one of the things that makes geekhack.org so valuable.

Because of this site and the community that makes it, we know, for instance, that the Filco Majestouch has cherry browns and we know the DAS keyboard has blues.  And if you buy an SMK-88 these days, you'll get blacks.

I'd suggest finding a keyboard you're interested in, if that board isn't listed on geekhack, then pester the vendor for details, and then post the results of that pestering here.  =-D

[bigpook]

Ok, we have the cherry browns, cherry blues, and cherry blacks.

Can you enlighten me as to the properties of these 3 switches?

[Ulysses31]

Someone here posted this link in another thread, it may be of some use.
http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html

[bigpook]

k thanks, thats a good link, After reading it, it looks like the cherry blue switches are the ones for me to try out first. Now, which board has cherry blue switches?

[IBI]

Well i have the G80-3000 but with the Portuguese layout and all the keys work with the DAS KEYBOARD II, but you're probably since this keyboard is based on the G80. Anyway i would gladly buy a G80 with brown cherrys....but finding it is the problem.....

You should be able to switch keycaps between any cherry switch equipped keyboard, and possibly the G81 series as well, but the larger keys such as enter and shift that require stabiliser bars you can't switch to a different keyboard.

If you tried to use a US board with EU keys you'd have to keep the US enter, US left shift and US \ key, and you'd also be missing a key since it only has 104 keyswitches instead of 105. You could still transfer most keys, they should work but the keycaps may not be the same height or feel.

The black cherries are much softer and quieter than buckling spring and I would imagine the brown ones are even less aggressive. If you want something similar to buckling spring I'd only consider the blue ones, although I have no experience of them so I can't say how they compare.

[xsphat]

I don't see why the Japanese layout wouldn't work as European. It has an extra key (though it is on the other side) and the only thing about that layout that is jacked up is the extra modifier keys by the spacebar.

And Cherry keycaps made by other manufacturers are interchangeable, for the most part.