Author Topic: Perfect Fail... err... Stroke  (Read 5647 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline itlnstln

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 7048
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 07:28:24 »
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=12832

New illuminated, Perfect Stroke keyboard from Logitech.  That is, if you're interested.


Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 08:28:22 »
Perfect Stroke, Logitech?  I got somethin' you can stroke - RIGHT HERE!  (looks nice, I don't suppose that huge wrist-rest is removable).

Offline jemkeys

  • Posts: 80
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 09:26:41 »
Quote
One thing that you commonly find on gaming keyboards at the high-end of the price range is backlit keys. At the same time, you don’t often see backlit keys on keyboards not meant for gaming. Logitech has announced its first backlit keyboard that is aimed at general computer users.


I'm absolutely floored by the marketing of keyboards.

Every keyboard I've seen at the chain stores seems to be utter crap, and they market it for so many different uses:

This one's a GAMING keyboard.  What makes it gaming?  Well we said its for gaming, silly.

This one is for general computer use.  I wouldn't recommend gaming with this keyboard.  It's really only for typing out URLs, while our special gaming keyboard is designed for sniping.

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 10:37:55 »
God forbid there should ever be a "Typing" section for hardcore typists.  You know, those crazy people who actually use a device with its primary purpose in mind.

Offline graywolf

  • Posts: 134
    • http://www.graywolfphoto.com/
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 12:01:16 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;8305
God forbid there should ever be a "Typing" section for hardcore typists.  You know, those crazy people who actually use a device with its primary purpose in mind.


It's been tried. Didn't sell. You see, 99.9% of computer users can not type.

So, how does it feel to be one in a thousand?

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 12:53:50 »
I feel like a unique and beautiful sunflower!

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 1723
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 13:56:49 »
Grow little sunflower Grow! : )
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 14:04:21 »
You are not your f'ing khakis.

You are not special.

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 1723
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 17:02:36 »
WE are all special, every single one of us... : )
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline victheslik

  • Posts: 153
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 03 September 2008, 21:42:05 »
-
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 November 2023, 22:13:43 by victheslik »
"The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain. " Karl Marx
A wiseman once said, "If Bible proves the existence of God, then comic books prove the existence of Superheros."

Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 04 September 2008, 00:47:30 »
Quote from: victheslik;8330
( i love you to xsphat)


I want you to hit me as hard as you can.

Offline victheslik

  • Posts: 153
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 04 September 2008, 01:01:37 »
-
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 November 2023, 22:13:21 by victheslik »
"The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain. " Karl Marx
A wiseman once said, "If Bible proves the existence of God, then comic books prove the existence of Superheros."

Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 04 September 2008, 01:04:31 »
Surprise me.

Offline victheslik

  • Posts: 153
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 04 September 2008, 01:40:43 »
-
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 November 2023, 22:13:13 by victheslik »
"The only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain. " Karl Marx
A wiseman once said, "If Bible proves the existence of God, then comic books prove the existence of Superheros."

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 06:50:33 »
Quote from: graywolf;8306
It's been tried. Didn't sell.

(Sorry for resurrecting this thread)

Graywolf, which keyboards were you thinking of when you wrote that?

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline itlnstln

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 7048
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 07:46:17 »
Quote from: sofa king;8827
(Sorry for resurrecting this thread)

Graywolf, which keyboards were you thinking of when you wrote that?


My take on this is that there is a "typing" section, particularly in "office" stores (Office Depot, Office Max, Staples, etc.).  The bigger issue is the manufacturers "knowing" what typists want and even typists knowing what typists want.  I showed my mom (a residency training coordinator at a major hospital here) my Evolution and Model Ms, and didn't even know you could still find them (she loved using them when she was a secretary 15-20 yrs. ago).  She then told me that she would love to find a mechanical keyboard to use as much as she types as she doesn't like the mushy rubber domes that come standard on their equipment.  I think if MS or Logitech would spend some effort into making one or two keyboards in their "business" line that were mechanical (I would suggest Cherry browns, although, I think I would prefer blues, but for the sake of less noise, the browns), say, for instance the MS Natural 4000 which is a great keyboard aside from the rubber domes, keep their modern appearances the same, I think it would sell great.  I think many typists would have a great revelation in typability (I think I just invented a word :) ) especially if the modern aesthetics/conveniences were available (like volume buttons, etc.).


Offline graywolf

  • Posts: 134
    • http://www.graywolfphoto.com/
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 12:14:24 »
Quote from: sofa king;8827
(Sorry for resurrecting this thread)

Graywolf, which keyboards were you thinking of when you wrote that?


Just being smarmy. But when you think of it, creative writers at the only people who are even willing to admit thay can type anymore. You can not even hire a secretary, you have to call them Executive Assistants. Work is a four letter word, and is not to be used in polite company. Of course if you sit around with your feet on a desk all day, you complain how hard you work. But typing is real work, and no one wants to admit thay have to do that. Besides you can not sell a lot of good typing keyboards. One to a customer is the best you are going to do. After all they are not sexy and exciting. They are just a tool, like a hammer, the best ones look exactly like they do just what they do, and nothing more. You do not sell a lot of fancy jazzed up pastel hammers to carpenters. Even on this list you see people saying, "I don't like the Model-M, they are so ugly and boring".

Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 12:18:38 »
But on this list you won't find (m)any with just one keyboard.

Offline itlnstln

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 7048
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 12:40:52 »
Quote
Even on this list you see people saying, "I don't like the Model-M, they are so ugly and boring".


I would like to hear more from women who like quality keyboards on this.  I think you don't hear that much for two reasons:

-Most of us on this board (I would say 95%+) are men, and men generally don't rank aethetics high on what they want in any particular device (the function over form aspect)

-Some of us actually like the aesthetics of the utilitarian Model M, Northgate, HHKB, etc.
(form equals function)

I think for quality to reach the masses, the aesthetics have to match the utilitarian aspect of the kb.  I think the Das III is a step in the right direction in that it has modern aesthetics and is also a quality device.  If it were lower priced (it doesn't even have to be that much lower), widely available/marketed, and (MAYBE) wireless, I think you have a winner.  Of course, make several different models with different colors, layouts (ergo/regular), illuminated, etc., I think you could have a strong lineup.  I believe most people don't even begin to consider quality kb's (should they even be in the market for a keyboard at all), because of aesthetics.  I also think noise has something to do with this as well (my fiancee likes the feel of the Model M, but not the noise).  This is nothing that some Cherry browns can't handle, though. :)


Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 13:11:27 »
With all due respect, most of the members of this board don't represent even the general view of the average male population let alone women.  A lot of you have what, five or six keyboards?  Even two or three quality keyboards would probably be more than sufficient to out-last their owners.  That's no more practical or logical than the average joe who buys a throw-away keyboard every year of his life.  I'm only saying all this to make the point that how people think on this board isn't how all, or even most men think.  Men care for aesthetics in plenty of things, from sports cars to gadgets, it's just that perhaps men appreciate functionality more so than others.

The Model-M is respected because it has many good qualities, but that doesn't justify why aesthetic issues should be ignored.  I think true mastery of product design is exhibited when function is not compromised by an attractive form.  It isn't a lot to ask, nor is it a massive technical challenge to make a keyboard that is a different colour, or without a superfluous inch-thick frame of plastic all around it, wasting your desk-space.  From opinions i've read here, the Filco keyboards are very sturdy and have a good weight, yet they're as compact as you can get for a full-sized keyboard.  They look smart as well as performing well.  There are other keyboard makers who can do a similar job, and I don't think there's anything wrong with making something better just because it performs its primary purpose well enough.

Offline Busty

  • Posts: 30
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 13:32:37 »
It is not only the looks. Many mechanical keyboards are loud. There is still an old Apple Extended in the corner of my lab, but my labmates would be really pissed if I'd use it.

Offline itlnstln

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 7048
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 13:42:36 »
Quote from: Busty;8839
It is not only the looks. Many mechanical keyboards are loud. There is still an old Apple Extended in the corner of my lab, but my labmates would be really pissed if I'd use it.


Definitely.  I think if mechanincal kb's go mainstream, they would need to use something like Cherry browns/blacks, Topre switches (from what I understand, anyway; they might be too expensive, though), or something else with good sound damping.  I know the noise puts off my fiancee, and, I am sure, some of my co-workers.


Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 14:39:08 »
I was hoping Busty would chime in on what men want ...

Everyone is right in this case. Men care about how some things look while others, men could care less about. This is specific to each man as well. I like the look of the Model M. The Filco has a great body, and the Topre fits in there somewhere as an armored Hummer. We all know what we like — half the people on this board love black keyboards, and I can't stand them. We're all correct here — it all boils down to taste + how much money are you willing to throw at what you want.

This keyboard thing for all of us is a hobby. Nothing more, nothing less. One guy buys keyboards to collect, another buys keyboards to use. I know I have more keyboards than I can wear out in my life, but it's not about wearing them out for me.

That is why you find thirty keyboards of all shape and color at Best Buy (which all suck, I might add). We are elitists, so it is harder for us to find what we like / want / need than normal folks.

Offline graywolf

  • Posts: 134
    • http://www.graywolfphoto.com/
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 17 September 2008, 16:41:03 »
Quote from: xsphat;8831
But on this list you won't find (m)any with just one keyboard.


Well, I only have one more keyboard than computers.

BTW, I too prefer light colored keyboards. Old eyes, you know.

I also now have the old 15in monitor and the hhkb-lite setup to connect to the test computer, but I heard something rattling around in there and have to inspect it before firing it up. Computer table is full of monitors and keyboards. I am going to have to use the kitchen table as a desk for now, I guess.

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 18 September 2008, 04:02:17 »
Not sure if the multimedia/mechanical combination will work from a production cost POV. The MS example given above has lots of unique parts that all need special tooling which is expensive. Mechanical switches would significantly add to the sales price and the uneducated customer would just grab the cheaper rubber dome?

In Asia Filco, Topre, etc. are doing pretty well (I think) with their typist keyboards. Here in Germany you see a lot of Cherry G80 but Cherry seems to introduce one Logitech clone after the other. Not sure what this means for the future of the MX boards.

It all boils down to customer education (not a new idea around here). For some reason this seems to work in Asia but not elsewhere. Here the only education (= advertisement) goes into overpriced boards like the DiNovo. With a board that is more expensive to produce (mechanical) there would be just less return on investment given the same ad costs.

So why is it different in Asia?

Quote
I was hoping Busty would chime in on what men want ...
LOL

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 18 September 2008, 04:12:50 »
Quote from: sofa king;8873
So why is it different in Asia?


Studies have shown that Asians have the largest brains of all races of humans. So the answer to your question is that Asians generally are smarter than my cracker-a*s brethren.

Offline graywolf

  • Posts: 134
    • http://www.graywolfphoto.com/
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 18 September 2008, 10:59:45 »
Quote from: xsphat;8875
Studies have shown that Asians have the largest brains of all races of humans. So the answer to your question is that Asians generally are smarter than my cracker-a*s brethren.


It may be as simple as that is where the factories are. There is another factor too. When you are new in the market you have to make a good product, and it helps if you have a showpiece one, at the top of the line, even if you do not make anything selling it. Once you have and established name you can let your quality drop and your prices go up. One of the few advantages of getting old is that you have seen things like this happen over and over, so can see the forest and not just the trees.

Offline Korbin

  • Posts: 131
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 18 September 2008, 20:05:48 »
Quote from: itlnstln;8841
Definitely.  I think if mechanincal kb's go mainstream, they would need to use something like Cherry browns/blacks, Topre switches (from what I understand, anyway; they might be too expensive, though), or something else with good sound damping.  I know the noise puts off my fiancee, and, I am sure, some of my co-workers.


Just my opinion, but I don't think mechanical keyboards will ever go mainstream.

Remember many years ago all you could get was mechanical keyboards.... now all you can just about get are rubber dome boards. The majority of computer users don't care about key switch quality (google the steelseries 7G and read the comments left by gamers on the expense of the board with no flashy lights). But we have all had those rubber dome boards where the "D" key makes that rubber rot creaking noise when you push it and the other keys don't after only using it for a year.

How many times have you gotten in a conversation that sounds like you have to justify using a HHKB when you carry it to work? You should see the looks and the questions I get at work for having a HHKB with no letters printed on the keys.

I'm sure we all know that electric capacitance switches are actually an old technology but companies stopped producing most of the keyboards with them because they were expensive.
Keyboards: Nyquist, Ergodox, Levinson

Offline itlnstln

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 7048
Perfect Fail... err... Stroke
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 19 September 2008, 05:51:14 »
I agree with you Korbin, but I think it also depends on who you are marketing to as well.  I wouldn't market mechanical kb's to gamers; I would market to more business types.  My kb always gets inquisitive looks from people when they first see it, because it looks like some ancient computing artifact sitting on my desk.  When they actually type on it, though, they love it and wonder where they can get something like it that isn't so damn noisy (my kb at work uses Alps switches; it's not the one in my avatar ;) ).