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Author Topic: Model M, switching springs around.  (Read 6028 times)

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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 08:06:58 »
How do you get the srings and hammers out?
If you have to pop the plastic riveting on the back of the metal plate I wont bother.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

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Offline iMav

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 08:59:04 »
Quote from: lam47;12363
How do you get the srings and hammers out?
If you have to pop the plastic riveting on the back of the metal plate I wont bother.


I believe that is exactly what you have to do for the Model M.  

This is one of the nice things about the Model M2...the buckling spring assemblies are easy to get to and replace.
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Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 09:34:05 »
Quote from: lam47;12363
How do you get the srings and hammers out?
If you have to pop the plastic riveting on the back of the metal plate I wont bother.


you mean you cant just "twist" the springs out? gah.

I was planning on eventually replacing the springs in a unicomp withthe springs in an M.
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using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Mercen_505

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 09:56:48 »
If you want to mess around with the springs on an M you'll have to content with the plastic rivets behind the metal plate. That's the reason I haven't bothered to replace the single BS that is... ah... sub-optimal on my favorite M keyboard.

Like iMav said, the M2s are convenient in that once you separate the two halves of the chassis the switches fall right out :)
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Offline wellington1869

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 10:14:36 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;12381
If you want to mess around with the springs on an M you'll have to content with the plastic rivets behind the metal plate. That's the reason I haven't bothered to replace the single BS that is... ah... sub-optimal on my favorite M keyboard.

Like iMav said, the M2s are convenient in that once you separate the two halves of the chassis the switches fall right out :)


welcome mercen :)

So maybe an M2 is in my future then.  

To clarify - the plastic rivets - I take it once they're opened they cant be closed again? (ie, they're not screws where you can screw them back in?)
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Offline Chloe

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 10:20:16 »
They're melted to keep the plate in place. You can replace them with bolts though:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html
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Offline wellington1869

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 10:28:16 »
Quote from: Chloe;12384
They're melted to keep the plate in place. You can replace them with bolts though:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html


fascinating, thanks!
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 10:57:03 »
Thats interesting!
Perhaps this would even out the spring rates of each key.
Good Find Chloe.

Oh and you are a real girl aren't you? Not a fake girl like I have been accused of being ;)
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline wellington1869

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 11:00:49 »
Quote from: lam47;12389
Thats interesting!
Perhaps this would even out the spring rates of each key.
Good Find Chloe.

Oh and you are a real girl aren't you? Not a fake girl like I have been accused of being ;)



:D
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline iMav

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 11:18:14 »
I have yet to crack the plastic rivets on a Model M, but would not have any issues doing so.  In fact, I think the process would be quite fun.

You can get the buckling spring assemblies from Unicomp for 10 cents a piece.  So if you want to replace a few, I suggest simply replacing them all.

(and I can certainly facilitate overseas orders for anyone)
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Offline Chloe

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 11:33:14 »
Quote from: lam47;12389
Oh and you are a real girl aren't you? Not a fake girl like I have been accused of being ;)


Really? I think some men find women threatening. It's easier for them to deny our femaleness.
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Offline Mercen_505

  • Posts: 200
Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 11:40:16 »
Quote
I have yet to crack the plastic rivets on a Model M, but would not have any issues doing so. In fact, I think the process would be quite fun.

I wouldn't feel so apprehensive about it if there were only 4-5 screws to install, but knowing my luck I'd botch something and ruin my precious keyboard. I might be getting another M soon so I may have to use it for practice. I've got an M2 open right now with its guts all over the kitchen table; not surprisingly it was described online as "working just fine" which somehow magically translates to "four springs are ruined and need replacement." Heh.


Quote
You can get the buckling spring assemblies from Unicomp for 10 cents a piece.

Oh, that's good to know.
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 11:46:47 »
May I just say that said accusations were completely valid.
Although I never professed to be a woman.

Just had a look in my M and all the plastic tabs are in place.
I guess the variable spring rate stays!
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 16:20:30 »
Quote from: lam47;12396

Although I never professed to be a woman.



For the record everyone, as far as I know Lam is a guy :)
Quote from: Chloe;12393

It's easier for them to deny our femaleness.

and it appears chloe is a gal :)  (and I'm so not threatened by that) ;)
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 17:09:36 »
On another forum I go to I have the opposite problem. I have to point out I'm female all the time and I'm sick of it. One person even said, "I didn't know girls could code." :roll:
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 17:13:11 »
As far as you know indeed. What do I have to do pull my trousers down and wave it at you? Or would that indicate something else entirely?
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline philodox

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 17:26:22 »
Girl's can code?!?! :D

Nice link Chloe, I'm going to try that out with one of my 4 'new' ones.  Still haven't seen them yet as they got shipped to the wrong city, but will pick them up off my Dad when I'm in Hamilton next. :)
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Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 17:56:59 »
Quote from: lam47;12410
As far as you know indeed. What do I have to do pull my trousers down and wave it at you? Or would that indicate something else entirely?


lol! Please dont wave anything, I believe you :)
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline xsphat

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 00:33:42 »
That's what avatar pics are for ... :eek:
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 10:39:17 »
Quote from: Chloe;12384
They're melted to keep the plate in place. You can replace them with bolts though:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html


Anyone done this?
I would be interested if it did anything to even out the key sounds + feel.
My bottom row is very quiet compared to the middle 3 rows.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline itlnstln

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 12:33:00 »
I would imagine this could potentially make the feel and construction more solid.  It might even be better if you added rubber washers.
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 14:00:15 »
Quote from: iMav;12392
I have yet to crack the plastic rivets on a Model M, but would not have any issues doing so.  In fact, I think the process would be quite fun.

You can get the buckling spring assemblies from Unicomp for 10 cents a piece.  So if you want to replace a few, I suggest simply replacing them all.

(and I can certainly facilitate overseas orders for anyone)


So $10.50 for the springs. What do you think shipping would be on that?
I think I might do it to my M. I LOVE The Model M so much I want to pimp it right up. Christ Im talking like a teenager, probably. I don't know its been so long.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline bhtooefr

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 14:46:45 »
The problem is, those are Unicomp BS assemblies, which feel different from IBM BS assemblies, which feel different from Lexmark BS assemblies.

And, even IBM allowed a 30% variance in key force, IIRC - when you're talking about starting at 70g (the M15 was rated at 65g +/- 10%, IIRC,) that's a HUGE variance.
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Offline iMav

  • geekhack creator/founder
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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 17:40:46 »
FWIW, I recently replaced all the buckling springs in a M2 and all the springs were very consistent in regards to feel.
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 17:56:42 »
I might give it a go without the springs and see how it feels.
If the bottom and top row are still softer I will go for the springs.

Oh and what does IIRC mean?
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline bhtooefr

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 18:09:10 »
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 18:26:56 »
Ta.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline itlnstln

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 20:17:29 »
IIRC = I Imbibe Regularly (and) Constantly :)
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 27 November 2008, 08:34:10 »
Right just gave the bolt mod ago in a  few choice areas.
The bottom row is still much softer than the others. Looks like different spring weights have been used.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline lowpoly

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 27 November 2008, 12:10:08 »
Can you see a difference between the springs?
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Offline lam47

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Model M, switching springs around.
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 27 November 2008, 12:19:49 »
No they looked the same to me. Its the N that's annoying me. It does not seem to have the same snap but more of a wet springy ping.
but then Like I say the top row and whole bottom row seem lighter.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3
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