Just got the M10 today

[Therac-25]

And it's already annoying me.

I dislike the sound of the keyclicks on it.  The Model M's are a much nicer tone than these. Even though it might not be louder, it's a higher pitched sound, so it's just as audible (if not more so) than my M here.

I'm not hugely impressed with either the build of the keyboard, or the sound of the keyswitches. Also, the spacebar (and a few other keys) are sticking already.  Is it easy to remove these keys, or do I need a special tool?  Anyone else had this? The spacebar doesn't click all the time and has a different sound than the rest of the keys, so it's even more distracting.

Are the browns any better than this?  Or should I try and find something else?

[bigpook]

: ) I felt the same about the M10. While its an affordable way to get some blue cherries thats about it. The build quality, to me, was less then stellar. The blue cherries do have a higher pitch to them so it wouldn't really matter which keyboard it was, the blue cherries sound the same. At least they do to me, and I have a DasIII to compare it with.
Others here may disagree with me though.

The browns are very nice btw, but they do not click.

You may want to consider a white MX switch as they are the closest I have found to a BS key.

[Therac-25]

I'll give myself a week to try it out, and then I dunno.  Maybe it needs to be broken in.  My fingers are used to the Model M, so maybe I just need to adjust.

I'll see if I still hate it in a week or so.

[itlnstln]

For one, the M10 is not the best example of a Cherry blue 'board, from what I understand, due to quality issues, and listening to the soundclips of the Das vs. the M10, they sound completely different.  You may want to give the Das a try (if you know someone with one) before giving up on the blue Cherries.  I almost gave up on the black Alps before getting a few NIB kbs with them, now they are my favorite switches.  I would imagine you would like the Cherry browns if you don't care for the clicking.  You may also like the Alps blacks; the Dell/SGI AT-101W are plentiful and cheap to try.  I would try to get an NIB one, if you can.  The first Dell I got had some dirty switches which created an odd friction in the keys.  My NIB ones have been absolutely fantastic, though.

[Chloe]

You may want to consider a white MX switch as they are the closest I have found to a BS key.

Do you mean XM/simplified ALPS?

[itlnstln]

Do you mean XM/simplified ALPS?

I think he was talking about the white/clear Cherry MX switches like those in Lam's Qtronix 'board.

[Chloe]

The white switches in the Qtronix are fake Cherry switches. Cherry did make white stem MX. I believe they are just like blues, from before the current stem colour coding. The clear stem MX are soft tactile.

[Therac-25]

Is it safe to try and remove this spacebar by prying it without a tool?  Or should I wait until I get home to try and make it obey?

[itlnstln]

I think you would be OK by prying it from the center where the switch is.

Disclaimer:  ItlnStln is not responsible for damage to keyboard as a result of advice taken from him.

[itlnstln]

The switches that are not clicking might have some dust/dirt in them.  If I remember correctly, another user had success in fixing theirs by blowing out the affected switches with and air duster.

[Chloe]

Is it safe to try and remove this spacebar by prying it without a tool?  Or should I wait until I get home to try and make it obey?

You can remove the space bar and other keys with a pair of paper clips.

[lowpoly]

The white switches in the Qtronix are fake Cherry switches.

I just received an old serial Qtronix numpad with these switches. They have no Cherry logo on them. Was it that or something else to identify the fake ones?

[Therac-25]

Well, I got it off and back on fine.  Although putting it back on was a bit tricky.

Anyway, I think another review here was right -- most of the sound from this thing is coming from the keys bottoming out, not the actual keyswitches.  The keyboard just doesn't do the same thing, so it doesn't behave the same way.

I'm still not sure why it's sticking sometimes.  It just seems like it's not being pushed back up as fast.

I'll have to play with it some more, but some of the plastic pieces in there don't appear to be very resilient, so I don't want to risk breaking it.

[Chloe]

I just received an old serial Qtronix numpad with these switches. They have no Cherry logo on them. Was it that or something else to identify the fake ones?

If there is no Cherry logo they are fake.

[itlnstln]

I wish there was more consistent Alps labeling like Cherry.

[bhtooefr]

Do realize that the spacebar has a different switch, I believe a Cherry green.

[lam47]

Anyone want the Qtronix for the switches? The keys are melted mind

[itlnstln]

How are the switches on the Qtronix?  If I remember correctly, Wellington said they feel like stiffer Cherry blues.

[Therac-25]

Do realize that the spacebar has a different switch, I believe a Cherry green.

Is it supposed to look green?  Because it looks kinda blue here.  (Unless you're talking about another keyboard)

[itlnstln]

Some Cherry-based keyboards have a different switch for the spacebar (either green or, I think, grey) that is stiffer than the switches used on the other keys from what I understand.  The Scorpius may have decided to use just another blue switch for the spacebar.

[lam47]

The das has a blue as the space bar.

They are slightly stiffer yes with a much less high pitched click.

[itlnstln]

How do they feel compared to the BS or Alps.  If they are half-way decent (i.e. not too stiff), I might take the 'board off your hands and get some new keys for it.

[lam47]

Its hard to say. They feel a lot more like cherry blues than BS or ALPS. They are just slightly stiffer and dont make such a high click.
Where would you get the keys from? I would do that myself if I could find any.
The das Ultimate keys are the only MX keys that seem to be the same depth.
I tried some from a g81 3000 and they didn't fit right at all.

[itlnstln]

There are some links to keycap mfrs. in this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1128&highlight=keycap

[lam47]

Thanks man. It would be the space bar that would be a hard one to get hold of though.
Tell you what.
If you cover shipping its yours.

[bigpook]

Do you mean XM/simplified ALPS?

Oh man, for clarity, its the white alps-like switch that comes with the Filco Zero.
I still don't quite grok what the simplified is supposed to mean, can you elaborate?

[Chloe]

ALPS simplified the switch mechanism, possibly to meet production demands for a lower cost switch. This simplified design was then copied, these are known as fake simplified.

[bigpook]

ALPS simplified the switch mechanism, possibly to meet production demands for a lower cost switch. This simplified design was then copied, these are known as fake simplified.

So what did ALPS use before they simplified the switch?

Is the white mx switch in the filco considered to be a fake simplified?

[itlnstln]

The white Alps are much louder than the BS in the Model M.  If Therac doesn't like the sound of the blue Cherries, he might not like that of the white Alps.

[Chloe]

So what did ALPS use before they simplified the switch?

Is the white mx switch in the filco considered to be a fake simplified?

Originally the switch mechanism consisted of five parts. You can see this in the first two pictures here:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps_sw2.html

The XM switches in the Filco ZERO are fake simplified:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps_sw2.html#simplified%20II

[bigpook]

cool resource, thanks chloe!

[Therac-25]

Figured out the spacebar sticking issue.  One of the little white plastic pieces that was holding the "spacebar wire metal bracket thing" in place (that needs it's own word) wasn't pushed all the way in and a piece of plastic was getting caught on it on the way back up.

It still not completely comfortable, but I'm going to give it a little while.  The keys are at a bit of an odd angle.

[wellington1869]

I'll give myself a week to try it out, and then I dunno.  Maybe it needs to be broken in.  My fingers are used to the Model M, so maybe I just need to adjust.

I'll see if I still hate it in a week or so.

hey therac, I too was coming from BS, and none of the cherries really suited me (way too light compared to BS). The alps on the other hand I thought were pretty cool. You might find the same. In the end I settled on an endurapro (bs but lighter than m) and alps/strongmans boards.

[wellington1869]

If there is no Cherry logo they are fake.

are they OEM or fake? (ie, fake = pirated, no?).

[Therac-25]

hey therac, I too was coming from BS, and none of the cherries really suited me (way too light compared to BS). The alps on the other hand I thought were pretty cool. You might find the same. In the end I settled on an endurapro (bs but lighter than m) and alps/strongmans boards.

the thing that's annoying me the most right now isn't the keys at all.  it's the damn number pad.  i was using a compact keyboard on my desk just before this one, and i could actually be centered.  

i might have to stick with the cherries just to get one without a number pad.

[xsphat]

Pook, it's XM in the Filco Zero, not MX. That is why people are getting confused. There are brown MX switches in your otehr Filco.

[bigpook]

Pook, it's XM in the Filco Zero, not MX. That is why people are getting confused. There are brown MX switches in your otehr Filco.

Sorry man,  I am thinking I am dyslexic. Sorry for the confusion.

[xsphat]

Sorry man,  I am thinking I am dyslexic. Sorry for the confusion.

You should change it in your sig, too. We'll start having threads about where to get the fabled Cherry white Filco mini (which will lead to the the Cherry red switch keyboard threads). Could get ugly.

Note: At this time, there is no such thing as a Filco with Cherry white or red switches.

[bigpook]

You should change it in your sig, too. We'll start having threads about where to get the fabled Cherry white Filco mini (which will lead to the the Cherry red switch keyboard threads). Could get ugly.

Note: At this time, there is no such thing as a Filco with Cherry white or red switches.

did it, thanks for pointing that out to me. I was clueless.

[Chloe]

are they OEM or fake? (ie, fake = pirated, no?).

They are fake, made in Taiwan. I posted an article before about them.

[lowpoly]

Chloe, the new ALPS switch entry in the Wiki is very nice.

[Chloe]

Thank you, lowpoly. Sandy helped me write it.

[cmr]

thankfully i haven't had any problems with sticking keys on mine. then again, i haven't been able to figure out how to get ANY keys off this thing... it feels like they're glued on when i try with all my usual improvised key prying tools.

personally, i like the sound... it's loud enough for me to hear at work but not so loud that the neighbors complain, and the high pitch helps to keep the sound from echoing through the office floor. of course it does sound nothing like an M.

[wellington1869]

I like the sound too. The key resistance was too light for me though. But for about 2 weeks I really liked it.