making the fake white alps switch smoother

[bigpook]

I have the filco tenless with white xm switches. I have been using the filco tenless with blue cherries and after a week or so went back to the white xm switch. I kind of wish I could get a switch that is somewhere in the middle.
The blue cherries are fine but I want a little bit more feel. The white xm switch gives me way more but they are just a tad too resistive.

Is there a way to lubricate/grease the xm switch. I would like to smooth it out a little bit. Any one know how to do this?

[wellington1869]

do you want to reduce the tactile 'bump'? Or just make the sliding part a bit smoother?

For the former, basically you can try swapping the click leaf from another alps style switch. The click leafs are all a bit different, some have less of a bump than others. Alternately (if you dont mind doing it) you can 'squish' your click leafs a bit. I've done that before and its effective.

For the latter, you can grease the sides of the sliders. I've done that too and I do think it makes bit of a difference.

another option is to just use it for a month, supposedly they get a little lighter/smoother with use. (I havent used an alps switch long enough to verify this myself).

[bigpook]

yes, the tactile bump is just a little bit too much. It almost feels like the switch is balking.

Swapping click leafs is not an option, I think I tried that with a click leaf from the dell at101. I don't think that worked out so well.
What kind of grease do you use?
I have used it for about a month or so, I think it is more resistive then the model M's I have, I would imagine overtime that it would smooth out some. But I am thinking it will take quite some time before that happens.
Kind of wish I had access to one of those machines that test the life of keyswitches. Maybe put a million presses on them....

[wellington1869]

What kind of grease do you use?

I bought a syringe of silicon grease on ebay for about 5 bucks. The syringe makes it much easier to apply. I imagine amazon might have stuff like that too.
(silicon grease is approximately the consistency of vaseline, so it doesnt 'run' when you apply it the way wd40 would)

I have used it for about a month or so, I think it is more resistive then the model M's I have, I would imagine overtime that it would smooth out some. But I am thinking it will take quite some time before that happens.
Kind of wish I had access to one of those machines that test the life of keyswitches. Maybe put a million presses on them....

what would happen if you put a large dictionary on it overnight each night for a week? Wonder if that would help. (actually the keys would need to be only depressed halfway, so the click leafs are under tension).

I know what you mean about alps and stiffness. Thats what I didnt like about them too. The BS do seem lighter to me (particularly the unicomps (and once I greased the bs stem)).

Thats one reason I liked the tp2's strongmans, I felt they were somewhat lighter than XM or regular alps. (Probably just a different click leaf).

[Chloe]

If you can, I would replace the switches with real clicky ALPS. The tactile bump is softer. You can't use the click leaf from real ALPS because it's wider and upper housing is incompatible due to different switching mechanism.

You could try straightening out the tactile bump at the end of the leaf a little. You can see how the bump works here:
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/alps_softpush_click.swf

If you squish the leaf too much you will lose the click and tactile feeling.

[lam47]

Just like to add (sorry welly) That leaving a book on the keys will make no difference.
Its the constant movement of the spring and the wear on the metal leaf and plastic that softens the switch.
I remember people trying it on Sanwa arcade buttons and none would believe me that it makes no difference


Its a bit like (but to a greatly reduced degree) snapping a coat-hanger wire. If you bend it and leave it bent it is unlikely to snap on its own.
but by bending it back and forth heat and internal damage is made until it breaks.
A spring is designed in such a way that it will not snap but still the only reason it gets softer is that the internal structure of the metal becomes damaged or fatigued (I dont know the terminology I'm no scientition!)

[bigpook]

If you can, I would replace the switches with real clicky ALPS. The tactile bump is softer. You can't use the click leaf from real ALPS because it's wider and upper housing is incompatible due to different switching mechanism.

You could try straightening out the tactile bump at the end of the leaf a little. You can see how the bump works here:
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/alps_softpush_click.swf

If you squish the leaf too much you will lose the click and tactile feeling.

Chloe, where do you find these URL's? : ) Thats excellent. I take it that the red leaf is the click leaf and that this is what I am feeling when I depress the key.
I don't have any real clicky alps switches but if I did I would give it a go, even if it meant soldering. Billm has already proved that it is doable.

Straightening out the tactile bump is an idea, but I don't know how I could do that consistently for all keys. That could ugly real fast, I think.

[wellington1869]

Just like to add (sorry welly) That leaving a book on the keys will make no difference.
Its the constant movement of the spring and the wear on the metal leaf and plastic that softens the switch.
I remember people trying it on Sanwa arcade buttons and none would believe me that it makes no difference

true dat, lammy.
Here's an idea, get a pet hamster. get a hamster wheel. Use some tinkertoys (or mechano, if you're a real man), and rig up the hamster wheel to activate a set of pistons whenever it turns (like a steam locomotive). Place keys under piston.  Presto, in about 6 months you'll have a very buff hamster.
Oh, and some softer keys.

[bigpook]

I bought a syringe of silicon grease on ebay for about 5 bucks. The syringe makes it much easier to apply. I imagine amazon might have stuff like that too.
(silicon grease is approximately the consistency of vaseline, so it doesnt 'run' when you apply it the way wd40 would)

Do you grease the post? Maybe that would work, but after looking at Chloe's URL I am thinking its the click leaf that is causing the added resistance.

[lam47]

I happen to know he greases his post!

[bigpook]

I happen to know he greases his post!

Man, I re-read that. lol, thats not what I meant, honest!

[wellington1869]

Do you grease the post? Maybe that would work, but after looking at Chloe's URL I am thinking its the click leaf that is causing the added resistance.

grease the sliders (ie, the thingmajig that goes up and down). is that called a post?
Click leaf is a bigger factor as you say.  You really want to break out the soldering iron though? Good grief. Why not just buy a northgate and sell the filco?

I happen to know he greases his post!

not with silicon I dont.

[Chloe]

The animation is from Qwerters Clinic blog. There are two others for linear and tactile.

I found the click leaves in these simplified ALPS are really delicate. I only had to bend them a little for them to stop clicking.

[sandy55]

I don't have any real clicky alps switches but if I did I would give it a go, even if it meant soldering. Billm has already proved that it is doable.

In my opinion. this is the best way. Finding good working and smooth real ALPSs is somehow difficult these days though.

Straightening out the tactile bump is an idea, but I don't know how I could do that consistently for all keys. That could ugly real fast, I think.

I found the click leaves in these simplified ALPS are really delicate. I only had to bend them a little for them to stop clicking.

Click leaves in real ALPS are also delicate. I should say they are more delicate.  And be careful during your bending adventure. Red, bold, italic part of bigpook's comment is the point.

Another fact.
Actuation leaves, the black one at the right side of a stem in qwerters's animation, are very deferent from those in simplified and fake ALPS.  they are more delicate, more elaborate,  more exquisite than the others.

[billm]

The soldering is much easier than I imagined. As long as, as Chloe thankfully pointed out before I started, you have a de-soldering tool. I would venture to guess that it would take you as long or longer to disassemble every switch and replace the innards than it would to re-solder all the switches.

Also I'd be very very careful when removing the keycaps on the Filco. I had one or two that were on so tight that I pulled the whole switch out of the board when removing them. This was not a problem for me of cource since I was replacing the switches anyway, but I'd suggest being careful if you don't want to do some soldering.

As for softening up the white switches. I just took one of them apart tonight and compared it with the complicated blue switch I photographed for Sandy. Some differences lept out.

First of all the older switches have a heavier and seemingly less resonant case.

Secondly, the springs are looser and... bouncier in the older switch. They seem to be made out of a different material, they're  shiny and silver (stainless steel?) whereas the XM springs are matte in appearance.

Finally, the click leaf and switch components in the older ALPS switches also appear to be stainless (or some other shiny silver metal) whereas the click leaf and switch components in the XM switch are made of copper. It seems like the copper behaves a bit differently than the shiny stainless-looking material. The "tangs" on the click leaf in the XM switch definitely catch on the plunger more solidly and "thwack" with more force, hence the crisper feel and louder sound of the newer switches.

[bigpook]

grease the sliders (ie, the thingmajig that goes up and down). is that called a post?
Click leaf is a bigger factor as you say.  You really want to break out the soldering iron though? Good grief. Why not just buy a northgate and sell the filco?


not with silicon I dont.

I really like the small form factor of the filco. Don't think the northgate would work out for me. Greasing the post would be the easiest thing to try. Who knows, it may mitigate the balkiness of the click leaf.

[bigpook]

In my opinion. this is the best way. Finding good working and smooth real ALPSs is somehow difficult these days though.

Thats too bad.

Click leaves in real ALPS are also delicate. I should say they are more delicate.  And be careful during your bending adventure. Red, bold, italic part of bigpook's comment is the point.

I had the xm switch apart at one time. And yes the bits and pieces look to be delicate, especially the actuation leaf itself. It looks like its really easy to damage it

Another fact.
Actuation leaves, the black one at the right side of a stem in qwerters's animation, are very deferent from those in simplified and fake ALPS.  they are more delicate, more elaborate,  more exquisite than the others.

While not as elaborate as what you describe, it still is pretty delicate looking on the xm

[bigpook]

billm

are the shiny click leafs at the same angle as the copper looking ones of the xm?
I think the extra resistance that I am feeling has to do with the click leaf. Maybe the shiny ones are less resistive? I don't think I will try to bend the ones on the xm switches though.

I am thinking I will go with the silicon grease first and see if that makes a difference.

[itlnstln]

Just give the keyboard to me.  Problem solved.

[bigpook]

Just give the keyboard to me.  Problem solved.

: )

[billm]

billm

are the shiny click leafs at the same angle as the copper looking ones of the xm?

They appear to be at a similar angle but I think the click leaf fits in the older switches a bit more loosely and that may have a lot to do with the feel; there's  more play hence the lighter feel.

[wellington1869]

I am thinking I will go with the silicon grease first and see if that makes a difference.

These tubes on ebay are about $4 shipped if you want to try it out for cheap... (I'm assuming "differential gear silicon grease" for hobbyists is the same consistency as regular silicon grease)

[bigpook]

Thanks wellington, I ordered a tube.

[Chloe]

In my opinion. this is the best way. Finding good working and smooth real ALPSs is somehow difficult these days though.

NIB Dell AT101 on Ebay could be used for switch base/mechanism, stem and upper housing, then you'd only need the click leaves from an older board.

[bigpook]

NIB Dell AT101 on Ebay could be used for switch base/mechanism, stem and upper housing, then you'd only need the click leaves from an older board.

I have the AT101 so I am in luck,  you mention the click leaves from an older board. I am not so lucky there.