Symmetric Stagger Board - place your orders!

[bpiphany]

I moved a lot of the information into a new wiki post. Here I will list the items that are up for sale.

All prices are what I paid or slightly less. My "profit" in this is that more people get to try out my ideas, and ordering 2 boards for me alone would have been a lot more expensive per piece.

Items for sale:

5 or 6 x PCBs (one pending): $60 each


Enough 1N4148 diodes to populate a PCB: Free with the PCB

4 x Teensy++2.0: $25 each including pins and sockets (if desired)
2 x MicroSD card readers: $8 each


2 x Mounting plates, "ISO" layout for Costar stabilizers, painted black: $50 each


2 x Mounting plates, "SYM" layout for Cherry stabilizers,painted black: $50 each


~120 Cherry MX black switches, plate mounted; $0.80 each
~120 Cherry MX blue switches, PCB mounted; $0.80 each
~120 Cherry MX gray linear switches, PCB mounted; $1.00 each
a few Cherry MX clear switches, plate mounted; $0.80 each

A good number of cherry 2.00X wide stabilizer bars.
A few cherry 7.00X wide stabilizer bars.
A bunch of cherry plate mount stabilizer "housings"
A few cherry PCB mount stabilizer "housings"
$1.00 each for a complete stabilizer, ask me to see if I have what you want.

I can rebuild a few from PCB to plate mount or vice versa if you need a few of a different kind. I also have a bunch of brown switches. I want to keep most of them but if you need a few extra to fill out the extra locations I can send a few along with each PCB.

I will help you do any modifications required to the PCB before sending it if you like.

Plus shipping to wherever you want your "order"


Images
One of my friends board, a mix if the ISO and SYM layout (no plates for that one)

One of my own boards in the SYM layout, with plate

A board with brown Cherries and Costar stabilizers harvested from a Filco

Another picture with the Filco key caps mounted, I've taken a few extra from a blank Filco set.

[sixty]

I would like one.

[bpiphany]

I would like one.

Yay =) Just the PCB or something more? I know your pile of stuff probably is enough to do anything you want with it...

I guess litster has dibs on one too if he still wants one. That leaves 6 to go, hurry hurry.

[keyboardlover]

If it's possible to cut off the end and make it tenkeyless, I'm interested.

[sixty]

PCB and possibly a Teensy - If you have any of those. It seems Teensys nowadays only ship with credit card payments and they are quite hard to get in Germany due to PS3 piracy.. or something.
I will probably require some drilling done too.. I think. I'll let you know how I plan to configure it once you have the group buy settled

PS: Ever thought of running another order a case (for example made of multiple layers of acyrl)?

[bpiphany]

If it's possible to cut off the end and make it tenkeyless, I'm interested.

I had plans on doing two mounting points for the Teensy but the mess of tracks was unbearable... And I also realized that the Teensy wouldn't fit into a Filco tenkeyless shell. So, no, I don't really see that coming anytime soon. Sorry =(
 

PCB and possibly a Teensy - If you have any of those. It seems Teensys nowadays only ship with credit card payments and they are quite hard to get in Germany due to PS3 piracy.. or something.
I will probably require some drilling done too.. I think. I'll let you know how I plan to configure it once you have the group buy settled

PS: Ever thought of running another order a case (for example made of multiple layers of acyrl)?

I will probably order some more Teensys anyhow, this is probably only interesting for Europeans though. I think it will be cheaper to source them separately if within the US.

I think the Filco case idea is quite smart. Either just replacing the innards to make it possible to switch between setups, or buy a Filco to source the switches and case. For example, mouser doesn't offer brown or red switches, but a Filco board would offer enough (perhaps a few short) of switches. I could probably supply a few brown ones as well as I butchered a full size Filco brown yesterday...

And, yes, I will wait a little longer to see what people are interested in in terms of mounting plates and keycaps before everything will be set.

[xbb]

what makes this better than a Filco apart from customizable layout and programmability? I'd like more a custom case.

[bpiphany]

If it's possible to cut off the end and make it tenkeyless, I'm interested.

Well, actually it would be possible to cut it I guess. No remaining columns ventures into the cut off part. The rows are pretty straight too. The Teensy would have to be wired in with wires connected at fitting solder pads. It wouldn't be pretty at all =P

what makes this better than a Filco apart from customizable layout and programmability? I'd like more a custom case.

The main thing is the non-standard stagger mainly of the left half of the board. And I think the Filco case is good looking. But of course it is up to anyone to build a case themselves. The first board will go to one of my friends, and he demanded that as much as possible of the PCB should be visible... I think I will mount it on a slab of acrylic and put a wooden frame or something around it.

[xbb]

Actually I'm interested if you think I can make an old-cherry like layout with 1.5 modifiers and using the same caps.

[bpiphany]

Actually I'm interested if you think I can make an old-cherry like layout with 1.5 modifiers and using the same caps.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean.

The bottom row can be either filco(and others)-style with
1.25X 1.25X 1.25X 6.25X 1.25X 1.25X 1.25X 1.25X
or my custom layout
1.50X 1.50X 1.50X 6.00X 1.50X 1.50X 1.50X

The tab key is standard width 1.50X
The enter key can be either ISO-style, ANSI-style 2.25X with 1.50X backspace or backslash, or custom 1.25X
The caps lock key is non-standard 1.25X

The main problem is the shift keys which are 2.00X wide. The left shift may be replaced with two 1.00X wide key, the right one doesn't offer that possibility. This row is probably equal in profile to the bottom row though so a keypad-0 key might do it. In the pictures I have used a standard ISO Filco set and four extra keys from a Filco otaku set (the blank ones). The caps lock key is really a row-one key though, but it is very close to the correct profile. A set unfortunately only includes one row-one horizontal 2.00X key.

If I do order keycaps it could be possible to supply a modifier only set to use with another set (a group buy set would be ideal in that case probably).

[bpiphany]

The Filco case has three pegs holding the PCB in place. I got the middle one dead on, the other two need some modification for the PCB to fit. I tried doing it by machine but I got the best result just filing by hand.


This is the messy area... The stabilizer holes and center holes of the ANSI and ISO return interfere with each other. Drilling holes will work well only for one of the setups. The optional 1.25x wide return is compatible with both ISO and ANSI return since it requires no stabilizer.


This is the same drilled for an ISO return setup.


I can do all of the above modifications prior to shipping if requested.

On to the only real design issues. See that diode location. It is needed for both placements of the right shift key, the stabilizer interferes in both cases. This is not quite as bad as it may look. There is plenty of room for the diode to be mounted on the back of the board.


More stabilizer interferences. That pad is for mounting a resistor (yeah I know that is a diode, but it's for illustrative purposes) in series with that diode in put into the left shift key. This solution works albeit a bit tedious.


This however is not a problem at all. Those two diodes aren't used in conjecture with the double height '+' and 'enter'-keys.



I got a quote from the water cutting company too. A mounting plate would be approximately $50 (plus setup costs of ~$60 split among the total number of plates).

[kraz]

I dig those keycaps. Are these for sale?

[bpiphany]

I dig those keycaps. Are these for sale?

I got myself perhaps 1.5 set of caps a while back, plus a lot of blank keys, to play around with. I need to order some more to fill up all the modifiers. This I am going to do for sure. If I would be selling any I would order more, but that would probably only happen if it turns into a mini group buy. The DSA family also doesn't have a Filco sized spacebar, only 6 or 8 units (it also contains no ISO return). If there will be any greater interest in this group buy it might be feasible to do a custom keycap set for it. This would probably be either DSA, DCS or maybe DSS family. It could be done in the same color scheme of course, I have slightly different plans though =)

Looking good.   I found PCB mounted keys were hard to solder completely centered even with the PCB tabs.  Sometimes I would have to resolder and jiggle a bit.

 
These have NO wiggle whatsoever, they need a slight push and then they sit there. Before ordering when I looked pcbwing up I read good things about their tolerances, I guess they just are that good. The few locations that only takes switches without the pins require a little more care.

[litster]

I think I will mount it on a slab of acrylic and put a wooden frame or something around it.

I would seriously consider getting one if I could also get your acrylic mount.  Getting it into a Filco case is nice, but it would not look special.  with a see-through acrylic case, now that would be super cool.  Maybe we can even use ripster's clear keycaps!

When will you have your acrylic mounted PCB done?

[sordna]

Layouts

I normally prefer ANSI, but your ISO version is the only one that makes sense to me (Kinesis contoured user). I would be quite interested in a tenkeyless version of this board with blue or red switches!
Anyway, to me, the left columns should be QAZ ... TGB, like your ISO has it.
Your ANSI is QAshift ... TGV, why is that? Most non-staggered keyboards (Typematrix, Kinesis, Maltron, and even the TrulyErgonomic) are QAZ ... TGB.

[bpiphany]

I normally prefer ANSI, but your ISO version is the only one that makes sense to me (Kinesis contoured user). I would be quite interested in a tenkeyless version of this board with blue or red switches!
Anyway, to me, the left columns should be QAZ ... TGB, like your ISO has it.
Your ANSI is QAshift ... TGV, why is that? Most non-staggered keyboards (Typematrix, Kinesis, Maltron, and even the TrulyErgonomic) are QAZ ... TGB.

This part really is up to you but here are some ideas. [...] In general all non-overlapping options can be combined any way desired.

There is no rule against combining the ISO shift with the ANSI return. I, myself have never hit the zxcvb-keys with the intended finger on the qwerty-layout, that is torture... So I am quite used to hitting z with my ring finger. This whole project sparked from the SYM-layout idea, and I liked having the sifts directly below both pinkies. Also I have some plans to do my own layout all in all, and here the uniform key profile and single legend key caps come in handy.

My first customer has his setup like this. There will be legends on the blank keys at some point too. SP had a 5 week lead time at the moment...

[bpiphany]

I picked up the plates yesterday. They are not the highest quality steel and they are not de-burred. I will probably sand them and put some thin coating on. The cherry stabilizers work like they should. I didn't do the best job measuring the layout of the costar ones. They are slightly off and bind when the key is pressed. I'm probably only off by a few 1/1000". Some filing does the trick although I would like to have the correct numbers at hand for another time. I got three of each of the ISO and SYM layout. I am going to keep one of each for myself, the rest are available to any one who wants them. I also just received 6 Teensy++ with accessories.

[bpiphany]

Yesterday was very productive =)

I sanded and painted the plates. I thought I would keep a few of them unpainted if anyone would like to do it themselves. And I had planned to do take some pictures of the progress, I forgot my camera at home... I had never done any spray painting before and it was so excessively awesome I couldn't stop myself from doing them all. I painted them in pairs, and the first ones I did the top before the bottom. That's where the "dust" on the plates is from. I am keeping those for myself. The rest I did the better way around.

A board of blue switches. I had put high force gray switch springs into them just to try it. That was insane... so I did a no solder spring swap back to blue spring, on most switches. I totally didn't think of this when I de-soldered them to put the plate in. It was a quite easy task identifying the stiff ones though. Counted them all up and decided I had them sorted out. Re-soldered everything with the plate in between. Then it hit me I probably had put a black spring into the spacebar... So there is a switch somewhere with a black spring within =)

Some close-ups.



Another brown/clear board in the ISO layout.


And a higher res desktop shot of the symmetric layout board. All keys will have legends when I get the next batch of keycaps from SP.


And a really crappy video showing the costar stabilizers in action. It seems like I was a bit quick to disqualify my measuring skills. Some de-burring/very slight chamfering of the short edge in the slot allowed the stabilizers to seat properly.
[video=vimeo;26059753]http://vimeo.com/26059753[/video]

And finally, an almost as crappy video of the board in action. Showing the firmware is working fine.
[video=vimeo;26059879]http://vimeo.com/26059879[/video]

[HaveANiceDay]

Great job! It's looking amazing <3

[bpiphany]

I updated the first post with available items. Go ahead and place your orders today



It's not possible to change the thread title, is it? Only the title of the first post...

[Aleksander]

THREAD REVIVAL OF THE DAY!

Just want to post a picture of mine, it has been unfinished for 2,5 years an finally it has got some life! (mad scientist laugh)
Need to get a R4 SPH numpad kit, 2u Shift cap and something to use as a 2u space cap

[Pacifist]

whoa

[SpAmRaY]

What an awesome necro! I could use a board like this for some keycaps I have....

[codyeatworld]

I got really excited and then looked at the date.


What an awesome pcb. I wouldof grabbed one of these!

[Aleksander]

Hehe, sorry for getting you excited over old news.

[bpiphany]

Oh, this brings a tear to my eye =D It makes me happy to finally see one that isn't my own.

I would recommend shifting your right hand all the way out on the right side  with your pinky next to that control cap there. I moved å and ä towards the center myself. I haven't been experimenting a lot with different layouts though.

If I ever get around to making a new "Phantom" (or any other regular layout PCB) I will include optional switch locations to support the different symmetric layouts I've concocted.

[TLSC.wipeOut]

Oh, this brings a tear to my eye =D It makes me happy to finally see one that isn't my own.

I would recommend shifting your right hand all the way out on the right side  with your pinky next to that control cap there. I moved å and ä towards the center myself. I haven't been experimenting a lot with different layouts though.

If I ever get around to making a new "Phantom" (or any other regular layout PCB) I will include optional switch locations to support the different symmetric layouts I've concocted.

a full size phantom would be pretty cool to build! ;P

[Glod]

Full size phantom + breakaway numpad for TKL (i think this has been thought of) + SMD controller + symmetric stagger option = win

[Photekq]

Full size phantom + breakaway numpad for TKL (i think this has been thought of) + SMD controller + symmetric stagger option = win

Bpip, make this ^ with the following and you'll be my hero
-PCB mount stabilisers
-PCB mount switch holes

[Aleksander]

 Thanks for the feedback!
How many of these were actually made?

[yasuo]

interested in this project for my HPE Syml TKL or 60% soon

[mooswa]

Oh, I would love a 60% version of this with a trackpoint or may be a blackeberry trackball in the middle.