Author Topic: Keyboard with different MX Switches?  (Read 3304 times)

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Offline CorsairJames

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Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:38:21 »
Hey all,

So during our think-tank sessions, an idea was brought up to see if people would want a keyboard with different Cherry MX switches. One of the suggestions was to insert different key switches for certain keys for gaming (ie, WASD 1-6 is red while everything else is using Cherry MX Blue/Brown). Nothing is set in stone and while there are plenty of challenges from doing something like this, I wanted to get all of your feedback on it. Is a keyboard with different switches worth investigating?

Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:42:24 »
Yeah ducky has a few hybrid MX boards.

Offline HPE1000

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:42:50 »
I think the only real options that would be interesting would be WASD 1-6 being mx reds while the rest of the board is blacks. Since your fingers are going to be there for gaming the lighter part might reduce the stress on pressing down. Or you could just do the main part of the keyboard with one switch and then the F keys, arrows, delete, home etc cluster all being different switches.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:50:06 »
Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.
Why is it impossible? It has been done on many custom boards/switch plates here. Why can't you implement it?
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Offline fourzeropooh

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:52:10 »
Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.
Why is it impossible? It has been done on many custom boards/switch plates here. Why can't you implement it?

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Offline rowdy

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:55:40 »
Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.
Why is it impossible? It has been done on many custom boards/switch plates here. Why can't you implement it?

The layman who messes up the stem swap and then gets angry at the product

But surely we are more in the area of people who know what they want from a (mechanical) keyboard than just the average user, and certainly dabbling in the enthusiast area when talking about swapping stems and/or springs.
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Offline HPE1000

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:56:59 »
Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.
Why is it impossible? It has been done on many custom boards/switch plates here. Why can't you implement it?


Yes, corsair has already said they won't do that since they don't really want people taking stuff apart who don't actually know how to do it. It's hard to have a warranty on a product like that. The only way they could actually do it easily is if they worked like legos as they said, since you would be swapping the whole switch.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 17:58:20 »
I don't think it'd be very comfortable.  You can't expect everyone to use WASD for gaming and not other keys.  What about those playing MMOs and using 1-7 for frequent button mashing?  So now you have at least 1-7 + WASD  and probably Q and E with lighter linear switches.  And then combinations of Shift + key and Ctrl + key--do you make those modifiers linear or tactile or tactile clicky?  At that point, what if there are other games that require yet more bindings for frequent mashing?  And now imagine using that keyboard for typing, when a bunch of keys behave one way and the rest behave another way.  I think it's better to own 2 keyboards or one that will feel good for both functions (like, say, MX Browns feel decent for gaming and good for typing, or MX Reds with o-rings).  I also don't see the point of Ducky's OMG hybrid boards: MX Blues on just the numpad and other switches elsewhere.  It seems more like a gimmick to me.  It would be just as fine to have Browns or Clears on the numpad for tactility, but they chose Blues. 

Anyway, I used to think it'd be cool to have a hybrid board while I prepared to mod my Filcos, but later changed my mind for the reasons above.  I've typed on mixed-switch boards while modding switches where custom plates allow for opening switches without desoldering, and it was okay, but not great.  In my opinion it would only work well if everyone was able to customize switch selection and layout to their individual needs and the games they play / tasks they execute most frequently, because if you go with a single layout for everyone, you're going to have people who will find it awkward.
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Offline fourzeropooh

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:02:33 »
I don't think it'd be very comfortable.  You can't expect everyone to use WASD for gaming and not other keys.  What about those playing MMOs and using 1-7 for frequent button mashing?  So now you have at least 1-7 + WASD  and probably Q and E with lighter linear switches.  And then combinations of Shift + key and Ctrl + key--do you make those modifiers linear or tactile or tactile clicky?  At that point, what if there are other games that require yet more bindings for frequent mashing?  And now imagine using that keyboard for typing, when a bunch of keys behave one way and the rest behave another way.  I think it's better to own 2 keyboards or one that will feel good for both functions (like, say, MX Browns feel decent for gaming and good for typing, or MX Reds with o-rings).  I also don't see the point of Ducky's OMG hybrid boards: MX Blues on just the numpad and other switches elsewhere.  It seems more like a gimmick to me.  It would be just as fine to have Browns or Clears on the numpad for tactility, but they chose Blues. 

Anyway, I used to think it'd be cool to have a hybrid board while I prepared to mod my Filcos, but later changed my mind for the reasons above.  I've typed on mixed-switch boards while modding switches where custom plates allow for opening switches without desoldering, and it was okay, but not great.  In my opinion it would only work well if everyone was able to customize switch selection and layout to their individual needs and the games they play / tasks they execute most frequently, because if you go with a single layout for everyone, you're going to have people who will find it awkward.

Well said.

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:08:27 »
I've tried hybrid ducky boards before at MechanicalKeyboards.com's store front. It's so awkward and uncomfortable for me. I really prefer uniform keyboards. It's just so personal for each user. I think the hybrid boards are too general for those who want to really personalize and too mixed for my tastes.

Offline HPE1000

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:17:56 »
Yes, I forgot to put my actual personal opinion in. I vote no, I don't think there are even remotely enough people who wan't a keyboard like that.

I think that uniform is the best way to go, the only hybrid keyboards I could see being cool would just be random different switches thrown in so people can use their board as a partial switch tester. Like the main section of the keyboard all the same switches, but then put different switches on the arrow keys, then different on esc then a different on f1-4, different on f5-8, different on each little cluster of the board. But different switches on the actual typing surface is probably not smart.


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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:21:45 »
I think stiffer switch on spacebar is kinda good but on wasd or partial numbers it would only feel weird for typing.
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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:25:03 »
I've seen some boards do spacebar/capslock/scrolllock as diffierent switches.

It feels weird to type when your homerow is tactile and the rest is linear, but something like blacks/reds might be cool.
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 19:13:57 »
Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.
Why is it impossible? It has been done on many custom boards/switch plates here. Why can't you implement it?


Yes, corsair has already said they won't do that since they don't really want people taking stuff apart who don't actually know how to do it. It's hard to have a warranty on a product like that. The only way they could actually do it easily is if they worked like legos as they said, since you would be swapping the whole switch.

There's a custom keyboard from China that works like that, where you can move around whole switches...see the thread here. Now, I don't know how well it works, but it's an interesting idea, anyway.

As for the hybrid idea: I think I have to side with those who don't like the idea of different switches on WASD.
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Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 19:58:54 »
Most of the comments about WASD keys being softer compared to others I somewhat quite agree. The keyboard would probably then be too heavily biased to maybe FPS style gaming where WASD are used the most. Certainly the idea of mixed MX switches are not new as it has been pointed out above in both commercial as well as DIY sort of form, it certainly would be an interesting idea if such ideas were properly executed in a commercial sort of form. That said such idea is easier said than done.

I cannot stop thinking the idea of mimicking something similar to what Realforce did with their mixed rubber cups as variable weights. The idea if mimicked to work in similar sort of fashion on MX boards would be interesting. Though not really suited for gaming I guess the idea in general but I guess it is there to maybe offer better typing sort of experience for those who needs it.

If using my sort of idea, the idea is not without flaws. Certain MX switches I have noticed such as MX blues seems to sort of punish one if they tried to bottom out so in the respect MX blues may seem weird if used amongst others on the same set of keyboard. With a staggered sort of keyboard layout it maybe easier to implement various weights across each group of keys that the fingers may strike.

Another sort of idea comes to mind is that if the idea is to use mixed switches across various groups that the fingers are in charge of is to also furthermore extend the idea of ergonomics. I am sure if the idea is to minimise the strain across certain sets of fingers then the next step would be to maybe incorporate more ideas to prevent any more strain. Though ideally it is best to first see if there are any interest in mixed MX switches by "finger groups" first before adding ergonomically styled keyboards into the mixed MX switches range. Ultimately the idea may not be well suited for gamers for instance but art least this may give one the incentive to tap into another sort of area with those who uses keyboards mainly for typing but to also find something nice with both mixed Cherry MX switches (by finger group) and by the style of the keyboard that is there to further assist them in minimising strains if properly used. Split keyboard idea are not new, split keyboard with MX switches are hardly new, though split keyboard for instance with mixed and MX switches are new (especially if they are arranged in a specific way).

You could sort of say this is my bit of fascination with mixed Cherry MX switches on a keyboard being arranged as such to mimick variable Topre rubber cups across various sets of keys, but to combine that along with ergonomically styled keyboard would be even more interesting. I personally find the idea of restricting to just WASD key combos for varied MX switches too restrictive/specific. Not only would you entice a very small group of gamers (notably those playing FPS for instance or maybe even simulations) but again if such keyboard were to be used for normal typing for instance or even chatting within gaming, it would not be all that great. Then again to have more than just WASD using softer for instance switches along with few others would furthermore restrict the types of games and/or force end users themselves to bind any other game they may play to whatever keys that has the mixed switches that seems to be well suited for gaming. This in short wouldn't be all that nice.

Anyhow, this is just an idea that you could look at I suppose with a grain of salt. As for the idea of swapping keys out on the fly like LEGO style, maybe a modular keyboard with discrete keys and their switches? :D I think that would not be a cheap option to be frank even though the idea is interesting.
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 January 2014, 20:01:45 by tuxsavvy »
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 20:38:54 »
The only kinds of hybrid boards I've seen successful are variable weight, where you have Clears and a tactile Grey spacebar or you have Red alphas and Black mods (or the inverse) or you have Greens and Blues mixed.  Browns and Clears would feel horrible and any mixing of tactile/linear/clicky would be clunky and awkward feeling.  Hybrid boards are a novelty, not something that really work well.

Keep in mind it is impossible to actually change the switches on the fly ala LEGO (we looked at this too) so while I wish this could happen, there isn't a way currently do so.
Why is it impossible? It has been done on many custom boards/switch plates here. Why can't you implement it?

The layman who messes up the stem swap and then gets angry at the product

Well, I'm sure they could also develop some permutation of a SIP socket that would enable you to drop switches in and pull them out so you wouldn't have to mess with the housing.   Even so, just because the layment gets upset doesn't mean it's impossible, just that they won't do it.

Offline eddie

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 13 January 2014, 20:51:59 »
I don't like the idea. Ducky has a few of these keyboards. If you're going to do a keyboard with multiple switch types I recommend doing it like ducky and not having specific keys having lighter switches.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 14 January 2014, 02:28:40 »
I have a Ducky tactile mix board, browns on alphas, clears on mods, space, etc. I am swapping all the clears for browns, except space.

Having a heavier switch on the spacebar works well, the other keys just didn't feel right. I would not like having different switches on WASD. It would interfere too much with the feel of the board when typing.
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Offline kolonelkadat

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 14 January 2014, 03:51:05 »
One of the suggestions was to insert different key switches for certain keys for gaming (ie, WASD 1-6 is red while everything else is using Cherry MX Blue/Brown). Is a keyboard with different switches worth investigating?
no. but if you want to do a hybrid board, you do it something like this: http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52120.0;attach=47486;image
you dont mix up switch types on the home row. thats ridiculous.

but I will buy an RGB k95 if you make it with blacks. which is odd since i dont use the backlight on my current k95 and have indeed painted over the macro record and other glowy buttons whose leds cant be turned off.

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Offline Tisca

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 14 January 2014, 04:01:09 »
This is what I plan to do with my Ergo Dox when I get it. Reds for WASD, Tab, left Shift. Blacks or Browns for QWERTY are etc. Needs testing. I need MX Reds for FPS gaming but I hate to type on them. I think I'll end up still using different kb's for different purposes. Downsizing desk clutter would be nice but I highly doubt I could ever have only one kb for all use cases.

Offline technomancy

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 28 January 2014, 15:49:14 »
This is what I plan to do with my Ergo Dox when I get it. Reds for WASD, Tab, left Shift. Blacks or Browns for QWERTY are etc. Needs testing. I need MX Reds for FPS gaming but I hate to type on them. I think I'll end up still using different kb's for different purposes. Downsizing desk clutter would be nice but I highly doubt I could ever have only one kb for all use cases.

On my Ergodox I started with all blues but replaced all the modifier keys with linear switches. The ones I hit with my pinkies got reds, while the ones I hit with my thumbs got blacks. I really like it, but I don't do any gaming, so you might be looking for something a little different.

I also replaced the non-modifiers in the outer columns with browns since they need a little less force, but I don't feel like that has made a noticeable difference at all.

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 28 January 2014, 17:45:34 »
Yeah ducky has a few hybrid MX boards.

That actually didn't have anything to do with whether they should do it or not.

OT: I think it's worth looking into. I know that some people like it when their modifiers and/or spacebar are of different weightings (e.g. MX Red keyboard with Black modifiers and space), or of different tactilities (Blue modifiers/keys with Brown/etc. keys/modifiers). I don't know if it's really particularly important or not, but it'd be cool to look into, and I'm sure that the idea of having ergonomically (or intelligently or some other label) designed keyboards will appeal to anyone.

A cautionary word, though; as kolonelkadat said, never change the types of switches in the entire alphabetic area, plus symbols, as Dvorak/Colemak users would have a very jarring experience. Numbers and others are fine, but not the letters.
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Keyboard with different MX Switches?
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 28 January 2014, 18:28:49 »
lol make a variable weighted board like the topre one.


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« Last Edit: Tue, 28 January 2014, 19:30:55 by jwaz »