Author Topic: Model F or not?  (Read 3189 times)

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Offline mougrim

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Model F or not?
« on: Sat, 08 March 2014, 17:04:08 »
This is some IBM keyboard... It's either Model F bucking spring or some obscure rubber dome version. Can anyone say which it is?
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Offline Parak

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 08 March 2014, 17:06:27 »
Honeywell rubber domes - nice ones though (for domes), what you're looking at probably is the 104 key 'unsaver' layout type board as I don't recall other IBM boards that have this switch.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 08 March 2014, 18:35:28 »
If you don't see springs, it's not a buckling spring Model F.

Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 00:21:26 »
Honeywell rubber domes - nice ones though (for domes), what you're looking at probably is the 104 key 'unsaver' layout type board as I don't recall other IBM boards that have this switch.
Yep. It's 104-keys terminal board. Found it on eBay listed for 70 bucks. Thought it to be too cheap for Model F - was right :) Also found PC AT 84 keys board. It's genuine article - and seller wants 160 bucks for it :)
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 05:19:09 »
This is some IBM keyboard... It's either Model F bucking spring or some obscure rubber dome version. Can anyone say which it is?

If this is a model F, I'm an expert engineer.
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Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 05:30:08 »
This is some IBM keyboard... It's either Model F bucking spring or some obscure rubber dome version. Can anyone say which it is?

If this is a model F, I'm an expert engineer.
Well, it's not so you're not :)

I was drunk when I started this topic. Or I could see this is no buckling spring. Not even close to it :)
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Offline Schattendolch

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 09:41:30 »
If it doesn't make a loud twangy noise it's not a model F.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 23:43:13 »
This is some IBM keyboard... It's either Model F bucking spring or some obscure rubber dome version. Can anyone say which it is?

If this is a model F, I'm an expert engineer.
Well, it's not so you're not :)

I was drunk when I started this topic. Or I could see this is no buckling spring. Not even close to it :)

Don't you guys drink vodka instead of water because all the water's radioactive?  :p
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 10 March 2014, 05:11:23 »
This is some IBM keyboard... It's either Model F bucking spring or some obscure rubber dome version. Can anyone say which it is?

If this is a model F, I'm an expert engineer.
Well, it's not so you're not :)

I was drunk when I started this topic. Or I could see this is no buckling spring. Not even close to it :)

Don't you guys drink vodka instead of water because all the water's radioactive?  :p

Only when fishing and going to picnic near Chernobyl :)
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 10 March 2014, 07:29:13 »
This is some IBM keyboard... It's either Model F bucking spring or some obscure rubber dome version. Can anyone say which it is?

If this is a model F, I'm an expert engineer.
Well, it's not so you're not :)

I was drunk when I started this topic. Or I could see this is no buckling spring. Not even close to it :)

Don't you guys drink vodka instead of water because all the water's radioactive?  :p

Only when fishing and going to picnic near Chernobyl :)

You even go near that place? Oh, I see, it's only an hour drive or something, and the wildlife's reportedly great. You can get 20kg monster ducks or chickens with three drumsticks? Fish easy to catch because they glow in the dark? :p

But seriously, if I was in the Ukraine now, I would be saving up my hard currency and keeping a couple of suitcases packed... the Ukraine is shaped like a steak, and somebody wants to take a bite.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 10 March 2014, 07:50:41 »
You even go near that place? Oh, I see, it's only an hour drive or something, and the wildlife's reportedly great. You can get 20kg monster ducks or chickens with three drumsticks? Fish easy to catch because they glow in the dark? :p

But seriously, if I was in the Ukraine now, I would be saving up my hard currency and keeping a couple of suitcases packed... the Ukraine is shaped like a steak, and somebody wants to take a bite.

You telling me? I'm living here, remember. But seriously, thing gone to ****, just not completely :) And I hope they won't.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 10 March 2014, 10:08:24 »
You even go near that place? Oh, I see, it's only an hour drive or something, and the wildlife's reportedly great. You can get 20kg monster ducks or chickens with three drumsticks? Fish easy to catch because they glow in the dark? :p

But seriously, if I was in the Ukraine now, I would be saving up my hard currency and keeping a couple of suitcases packed... the Ukraine is shaped like a steak, and somebody wants to take a bite.

You telling me? I'm living here, remember. But seriously, thing gone to ****, just not completely :) And I hope they won't.

As far as I can see it, Putin is getting what he wants, so you're still warm.

If he's not getting what he wants, I don't think you're going to get any heating... :p

But to tell you what I know, back in the 1990s I got to know quite a lot of people from that region. With my small sample size, I knew that the Crimean Tartars (actually, just one Tartar), the Jews (more than I could count, and it wasn't always clear which part of the USSR they were from), the Catholics (actually only two but hey it's plural) didn't like Russia. I got the impression some emigrated before the fall of the USSR because they were religiously persecuted. But the Orthodox Ukrainians basically thought they were brother nations.

Since opinions are so polarized, I can imagine it's going to be tough getting any sort of consensus on what to do. I also have relatives in Thailand (where there is perpetual political gridlock) and there is a low level civil war going on at any time. This is a big pity because both Thailand and Ukraine are rich in natural resources and it is very poor government that causes them to be so messed up.
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Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 10 March 2014, 10:51:31 »
As far as I can see it, Putin is getting what he wants, so you're still warm.

If he's not getting what he wants, I don't think you're going to get any heating... :p

But to tell you what I know, back in the 1990s I got to know quite a lot of people from that region. With my small sample size, I knew that the Crimean Tartars (actually, just one Tartar), the Jews (more than I could count, and it wasn't always clear which part of the USSR they were from), the Catholics (actually only two but hey it's plural) didn't like Russia. I got the impression some emigrated before the fall of the USSR because they were religiously persecuted. But the Orthodox Ukrainians basically thought they were brother nations.

Since opinions are so polarized, I can imagine it's going to be tough getting any sort of consensus on what to do. I also have relatives in Thailand (where there is perpetual political gridlock) and there is a low level civil war going on at any time. This is a big pity because both Thailand and Ukraine are rich in natural resources and it is very poor government that causes them to be so messed up.

Oh yeah, I heard about Thailand. Every election is a disaster. Well, now we having one. Basically - years of a bad government made of my country somewhat of a pressure cooker, and now it burst. Country in a turmoil until there will be new elections, and now Russia want to get a Crimea - when our provisional government can't do anything about it. I say, there is a high probability that Putin gets it - population of that peninsula mostly Russians. Of course, not everyone there happy about it - and Crimean Tartars are definitely not happy, but who gonna ask them? Of course, there will be some "votes" about it, but who gonna check if there are frauds?

To be honest, I'm tired about it. Let him have the Crimea if he wants it so much :)

And I still want a Model F. In a dire situation it cat be used as a shield and a weapon :)
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 11 March 2014, 03:17:20 »
You want one shield cheap, get a TG3 Police Keyboard. It's really a useful bulletproof shield. Even has blood splatter guard so YOUR blood won't kill your keyboard  :p.  I have one that I'm sending to Margo Baggins soon (in partial payment for his modding work), and it seems to have been used as a shield, heh.

Actually I think the Ukraine should be partitioned so that everyone gets what they want. Russia can increase its territory, and the Western Ukrainians can get their precious EU membership. (There's also a movement in Thailand now for Lan Xang Northern Independence because they're tired of voting in people whom the Southern (mostly Bangkok) residents reject.
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Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 11 March 2014, 03:53:18 »
Heh. This is one hell of a keyboard, I should say :) Looks like it's for torturing suspects :)

And Thailand and Ukraine... it's all complicated. But I think Russia will get Crimea.

Well, TG3 nice... but I still want PC AT 84-key board :) Pity there ain't a single one in Ukraine and don't know how much in Europe :)
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 03:08:50 »
Heh. This is one hell of a keyboard, I should say :) Looks like it's for torturing suspects :)

And Thailand and Ukraine... it's all complicated. But I think Russia will get Crimea.

Well, TG3 nice... but I still want PC AT 84-key board :) Pity there ain't a single one in Ukraine and don't know how much in Europe :)

Why don't you scrounge around for Soviet era hall effects and beam springs or whatever? They should be really cheap where you are, and you could make a decent amount selling these abroad as exotic stuff. That'll easily make you enough money to get whatever you want at the full MSRP price.

I'm a fan of these things; but over 20 years ago I made a vow never to buy because otherwise I'll die buying everything. Since then I just ogle cool and weird Soviet stuff in pictures.
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Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 03:24:37 »
Heh. This is one hell of a keyboard, I should say :) Looks like it's for torturing suspects :)

And Thailand and Ukraine... it's all complicated. But I think Russia will get Crimea.

Well, TG3 nice... but I still want PC AT 84-key board :) Pity there ain't a single one in Ukraine and don't know how much in Europe :)

Why don't you scrounge around for Soviet era hall effects and beam springs or whatever? They should be really cheap where you are, and you could make a decent amount selling these abroad as exotic stuff. That'll easily make you enough money to get whatever you want at the full MSRP price.

I'm a fan of these things; but over 20 years ago I made a vow never to buy because otherwise I'll die buying everything. Since then I just ogle cool and weird Soviet stuff in pictures.

Hmm... I don't know about hall effect ones, but there were a few nice ones with magnetic reed switches. I need to scrounge around for them, though, as most of this stuff by now already thrown away.

Well, I already have two spare ones - you know, that Monterey k108 and Wyse terminal board, but I haven't decided what to do with them yet :)
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 15 March 2014, 12:28:19 »
Iron Curtain is descending on your country again this Sunday, so you will have access to more magnetic reed and whatever exotic Soviet things straight from Rustbeltsibirsk or Bankruptgorod! Sell them abroad for hard currency, then join the queue for potatoes at the new Kievian GUM! Who needs model Fs when he needs to eat? :p
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Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 15 March 2014, 12:37:52 »
Iron Curtain is descending on your country again this Sunday, so you will have access to more magnetic reed and whatever exotic Soviet things straight from Rustbeltsibirsk or Bankruptgorod! Sell them abroad for hard currency, then join the queue for potatoes at the new Kievian GUM! Who needs model Fs when he needs to eat? :p
Nah, I'm not from Crimea :) But thanks. Positive emotions, dude ;)
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 15 March 2014, 21:30:40 »
HA

Right now I'm seeing news (could be American propaganda) that Russia has seized a gas terminal outside Crimea and making more moves in the east with 140,000 soldiers ready to march in and 'tourists' helping pro-Russian demonstrations in Donetsk.

Actually, I'm not 100% unsympathetic to Russia. They didn't get a good deal when the communists divided up the republics and there are lots of Russians stuck outside Russia. If these were well-run countries where the Russians felt fairly treated I'm sure they won't be begging to rejoin Mother Russia, but Ukraine has really sucked (as much as Thailand) and the Russian Federation is doing relatively well economically so there's plenty of reason why they want to rejoin Russia. Better to be part of a big, powerful great country than a midsize, messed up country where most educated people want to emigrate.

The problem with Tymoshenko and all her Western Ukraine supporters is that she didn't do a good job of uniting the country and running the economy well for everybody. She didn't show that level of leadership, simple as that, that's why Orange revolution rotted away and that Yanukovych (wonder if he's related to Weird Al Yankovich) got reelected in a fair election.

Actually I feel very sorry for people in the former USSR. They tend to be educated and hardworking. But their countries are fxxxxed beyond recognition.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 15 March 2014, 22:18:18 »
Oh, and Mougrim, on this website filled with technical geeks, I am very much in the minority. Let me show you what a non-technical geek is like:

My analysis of the situation follows in brief:

Ukraine is a borderland between distinct ecological, sentimental (history and ethnicity), and cultural zones.

Ukraine will always be geopolitically caught between Europe and Russia. Unless you split the country (I think the convenient line from Kiev to Dnepropetrovsk looks good as a water-based natural border, then SW to Odessa to account for history and demographics), there will always be people who look east and people who look west.

The geography is sucky for defense. That’s why all kinds of ethnic groups – Scythians, Greeks, Avars, Tartars and more – have marched over Ukraine. But the same disadvantages can be enormous advantages in times of peace. Ukraine is where most pipelines run through, and it is well located for an Eurasian silk road trade – trans-Eurasian high speed railways between Western Europe and East Asia.

Smart leaders in Kiev would know that they must always balance Russia and Europe. It can be done. Negotiate cheap resources from Russia and get EU development funds. Make sure Russia doesn’t feel threatened and don’t ask to join NATO, but get the best of European living standards and governance standards and EU freebies that Germany is always disbursing to peripheral states like Greece and Portugal.

Too bad nobody has been smart enough to do that so far.

Average or inferior leaders will just stick with one side, and infuriate the other side. That’s what has been going on since independence.

Perhaps because Ukraine hasn’t had much of a history as a distinct state, and also due to Soviet cultural influence, its leaders feel the need to run a centralized state from Kiev. So no matter who is in charge, it will piss off some part of the country or other, leading to more demonstrations and riots.

Ukraine isn’t a homogenous nation like Poland or Ireland with a strong sense of one identity. What will probably work much better is a Federal system much like Germany or Switzerland, AND official use of two languages. There’s no need to worry that Ukraine will fall apart just because Russian is an official language – Switzerland is majority German speakers and they’ve never considered joining Germany or Austria.

Considering Ukraine’s resources, it could be the richest country in Europe. But as you see, this is not possible without political stability and leaders who are capable of marshalling the country’s resources properly. Like Thailand I think Ukraine is doomed to remain messed up until all factions are exhausted from quarrelling and a good leader comes along.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline mougrim

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 16 March 2014, 01:38:11 »
Oh, and Mougrim, on this website filled with technical geeks, I am very much in the minority. Let me show you what a non-technical geek is like:

My analysis of the situation follows in brief:

Ukraine is a borderland between distinct ecological, sentimental (history and ethnicity), and cultural zones.

Ukraine will always be geopolitically caught between Europe and Russia. Unless you split the country (I think the convenient line from Kiev to Dnepropetrovsk looks good as a water-based natural border, then SW to Odessa to account for history and demographics), there will always be people who look east and people who look west.

The geography is sucky for defense. That’s why all kinds of ethnic groups – Scythians, Greeks, Avars, Tartars and more – have marched over Ukraine. But the same disadvantages can be enormous advantages in times of peace. Ukraine is where most pipelines run through, and it is well located for an Eurasian silk road trade – trans-Eurasian high speed railways between Western Europe and East Asia.

Smart leaders in Kiev would know that they must always balance Russia and Europe. It can be done. Negotiate cheap resources from Russia and get EU development funds. Make sure Russia doesn’t feel threatened and don’t ask to join NATO, but get the best of European living standards and governance standards and EU freebies that Germany is always disbursing to peripheral states like Greece and Portugal.

Too bad nobody has been smart enough to do that so far.

Average or inferior leaders will just stick with one side, and infuriate the other side. That’s what has been going on since independence.

Perhaps because Ukraine hasn’t had much of a history as a distinct state, and also due to Soviet cultural influence, its leaders feel the need to run a centralized state from Kiev. So no matter who is in charge, it will piss off some part of the country or other, leading to more demonstrations and riots.

Ukraine isn’t a homogenous nation like Poland or Ireland with a strong sense of one identity. What will probably work much better is a Federal system much like Germany or Switzerland, AND official use of two languages. There’s no need to worry that Ukraine will fall apart just because Russian is an official language – Switzerland is majority German speakers and they’ve never considered joining Germany or Austria.

Considering Ukraine’s resources, it could be the richest country in Europe. But as you see, this is not possible without political stability and leaders who are capable of marshalling the country’s resources properly. Like Thailand I think Ukraine is doomed to remain messed up until all factions are exhausted from quarrelling and a good leader comes along.

Well, it's pretty much the sum of what I think about all this situation and history of our independence.

Idea of national state in Ukraine pretty much sucks. Because it's already multinational, like Belgium, Canada, etc. I guess we must stop electing morons and thieves to our government...

But I think all what happening is a good lesson for all of us. And there are some chances that we're going to actually learn from it. And rid ourselves of some illusions.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model F or not?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 16 March 2014, 09:23:25 »

Idea of national state in Ukraine pretty much sucks. Because it's already multinational, like Belgium, Canada, etc.


There are many borders that should be re-drawn. When colonial superpowers were drawing borders, last century, they were not always drawn (and I continue using the word "drawn" because that is how they usually came to exist - lines on paper maps) according to the reality and the interests of the people within them.

Until the United Nations becomes some sort of world government, on some level, there will always be chaos. Having various powerful countries attempting to police the activities of various other countries, internal or external, will always be a recipe for disaster.

And whoever or whatever is "right" (from what perspective?) does not really matter.
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