« previous next »
Pages:  [1]     Go Down

Author Topic: Filco Issue?  (Read 6450 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BigWopHH

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 95
    • http://www.hothardware.com
Filco Issue?
« on: Wed, 15 April 2009, 21:45:13 »
Hey Guys,

I got an interesting comment in my key switch blog post I thought you'd all be interested in.

If you scroll to the bottom of the comments here...

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

You can read was user "nicecherry" has to say.  There's also a link to a video on youtube that shows the issue in action.

Have any of you come across this issue?  I can't replicate it on my Flico board with browns.
Logged
  • Topre Realforce 103UB
  • Topre Realforce 87U
  • ABS M1
  • Solidtek ASK-6600U
  • Dell AT101W
  • Das III Pro
  • Scorpious M10
  • Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2 (Blues)
  • Cherry G80-3000LXCEU-2 (Browns)
  • Unicomp Customizer 104
  • Steelseries 7G
  • Filco Majestouch FKBN104M/EB < Has Become My Daily Driver. Really Diggin\' It.
[/SIZE]

Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
Filco Issue?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 15 April 2009, 21:47:31 »
Yeah, this guy has aired his grievances in the Filco in the USA thread...it's evident he's not happy - possibly covered by warranted assuming it's not expired?

edit: this user
Logged

Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Filco Issue?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 15 April 2009, 21:54:01 »
user 'majestouch' also spoke about it in that thread.  You may want to check it out.
Logged
Add me on Steam | Twitter

Offline twolf

  • Posts: 8
Filco Issue?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 15 April 2009, 22:17:14 »
No such issues with my Filco. Very high quality product.
Logged

Offline majestouch

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 254
    • http:///elitekeyboards.com
Filco Issue?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 15 April 2009, 22:51:58 »
Hi BigWopHH,
Thank you for bringing this up. I've seen the post you're talking about, and I'd like to address it. It appears the same person also posted the same complaints and evidence in a thread here. I don't want to come off as judgmental, but this person is making some broad and critical remarks with little evidence. They made a claim in the forum here that "chattering is cliche of FILCO", his only evidence is two 3 year old youtube videos of someone that has a broken letter "b" switch. A couple of comments in Japanese and English on those videos say things like "it's a broken switch". Additionally, I've talked to friends in Japan that use FILCOs, and they have never heard such a cliche, not to mention that DIATEC has very good customer support in Japan and would gladly replace or repair such a problem for any warranted board. I in fact know one person that had a problem with one Cherry switch on his FILCO during his warranty period, and Diatec swapped out his board; end of story, customer service saves the day.

So, honestly, my take on the situation is either:

1. This person got taken on a lot of broken keyboards (he has admitted to buying 8 boards from someone, apparently unwarranted), and feeling helpless and robbed he has no other recourse but to try to give FILCO boards a bad name by making up rumors. In this case I can only feel sorry for the guy, but I'm not going to excuse his behavior.

OR

2. This person works for a competing board company or an overseas competitor of EliteKeyboards and is feebly trying to sow seeds of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt and hopes to hurt FILCO sales in the US.


FILCO boards are aimed at a discerning market, and to think DIATEC or EliteKeyboards would allow such a "cliche" to persist for any period of time without investigation/repair is quite a stretch of reason.

I'll mention, again as I have elsewhere in this forum, that EliteKeyboards products go through an additional level of testing for the US market before they are exported. Key switch "chattering" or "contact bounce" is due only a defective or broken switch (blame Cherry if you want to point fingers). Any such problem would not only be very rare, but also covered by the product warranty.

I hope this helps clear up any questions anyone has about these rumors. If you want to see my original reply to reports of this problem it is about mid-page of this thread here.
Logged

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Filco Issue?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 04:03:31 »
only problem i've had w/ my filco (had it since nov or dec) is the texture on the keycaps has warn off.

that dude probably spilled something on his keyboards ;).  My old Motorola razr would phantom type after i dropped it in the sink... phone still worked, it would just type extra numbers now and again.
Logged

Offline lal

  • Posts: 360
Filco Issue?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 04:19:00 »
I agree to you, majestouch.  Maybe threads with titles like "Filco issue?" popping up and spreading FUD are exactly the kind of thing that's intended (your option no. 2). Very disappointed user sounds reasonable, too.  Note that the youtube videos are the only two videos of the same user "berosu" and that almost no links to them are known to googles index (besides GH).
Logged
BS: Customizer, Model Ms; Alps: CSK-2101, FK-2002, AT-101 (SGI & Dell), MCK-860, FKBN87Z/EB; Cherry: Poker X, FKBN87MC/EB, WY60, G80-3000, G84-4100, TDV 5010

Offline ssb

  • Posts: 54
Filco Issue?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 04:22:53 »
Quote from: karlito;85884
only problem i've had w/ my filco (had it since nov or dec) is the texture on the keycaps has warn off.

Hmm, keycaps that wear up in just a few months; I thought that Filcos keys had much better coating - finish. :(
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 April 2009, 04:27:09 by ssb »
Logged
Please excuse my poor English.

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Filco Issue?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 06:56:31 »
Quote from: ssb;85886
Hmm, keycaps that wear up in just a few months; I thought that Filcos keys had much better coating - finish. :(

It's just the textured coating, but I haven't had the letters come off, yet, on any of my Costar 'boards. I think bigpook was having problems with letter coming off his Das, though.  My new Filco is already starting to show signs of "shinyness" on the F and T keys.
 
Quote from: webwit;85887
Jim, stop it! :nono:

LOL!
Logged

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Filco Issue?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 11:11:01 »
Most mechanical switches with hard contacts exhibit a certain amount of "bounce", but the switches can be designed in such a way that this is mitigated.  Electronically this is done via "de-bouncing" circuitry in most quality electronic devices.  The vibrations of the contacts could also be physically dampened though I have no idea if this is done in Cherry-switches.  Ironically, this problem is practically non-existent in cheap rubber-dome boards because of the shock-absorbing nature of the contacts.

I'd reckon it would take an awful lot of use or a faulty switch to see this happen in a Cherry-based board, in which case he should just get it replaced or repaired.  Bashing the keys would probably make this problem worse.
Logged

Offline huha

  • Posts: 388
Filco Issue?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 11:51:53 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;85950
Most mechanical switches with hard contacts exhibit a certain amount of "bounce", but the switches can be designed in such a way that this is mitigated.  Electronically this is done via "de-bouncing" circuitry in most quality electronic devices.


Usually, this is done in software. It could also be done in hardware, but I think that would be somewhat painful due to changes with temperature and slightly different degrees of debouncing between different keyboards due to part tolerances. Also, doing it in software is virtually free.

Quote
Ironically, this problem is practically non-existent in cheap rubber-dome boards because of the shock-absorbing nature of the contacts.


They should also have their fair share of debouncing problems. Debouncing, when done correctly, should be fairly easy. The controller has to count the activations and, when over a certain threshold, fire the key and then allow a grace period for any remainig bounce before retriggering.

Quote
I'd reckon it would take an awful lot of use or a faulty switch to see this happen in a Cherry-based board, in which case he should just get it replaced or repaired.  Bashing the keys would probably make this problem worse.


There are two possibilities for this: Either, the debouncing algorithm is bad (but then you should be able to reproduce this with more than one key) or his switch is just toast. Given the ease of writing a decent debouncing algorithm for quality switches, no problem reports of this whatsoever, making it non-systematic, I think we can quite easily conclude his switch is defective. Move on, nothing to see here ...

-huha
Logged
Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline BigWopHH

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 95
    • http://www.hothardware.com
Filco Issue?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 22:32:55 »
Quote from: ripster;85953
Hey BigWopHH, where's that review on Hothardware.com?  Be sure and give us a heads up when it comes.

- Ripster


Filco review coming first...going to make sure people know they can buy them easily in the US now.  Then I'll follow up with some Realforce coverage.

I've also asked the editor's at one of the tech magazines I write for if we can work in a piece on mechanical keyboards--still trying to get the word out. :)

Next Tuesday I'm bringing my collection to the local PC users group to let some of the members try them out.  Hopefully that'll be productive--I haven't been to a user's group meeting since my Amiga days. :)
Logged
  • Topre Realforce 103UB
  • Topre Realforce 87U
  • ABS M1
  • Solidtek ASK-6600U
  • Dell AT101W
  • Das III Pro
  • Scorpious M10
  • Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2 (Blues)
  • Cherry G80-3000LXCEU-2 (Browns)
  • Unicomp Customizer 104
  • Steelseries 7G
  • Filco Majestouch FKBN104M/EB < Has Become My Daily Driver. Really Diggin\' It.
[/SIZE]

Offline majestouch

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 254
    • http:///elitekeyboards.com
Filco Issue?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 23:08:24 »
That's great news BigWopHH, let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you. Please use the contact e-mail on elitekeyboards.com

Won't be long and we should be carrying Topre too.
Logged

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Filco Issue?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 23:38:02 »
Quote from: majestouch;86104
That's great news BigWopHH, let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you. Please use the contact e-mail on elitekeyboards.com
 
Won't be long and we should be carrying Topre too.

I hope you have a lot of bandwidth, now ill refresh your site 10x per day instead of just twice.
Logged

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Filco Issue?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 23:49:58 »
Quote from: majestouch;86104

Won't be long and we should be carrying Topre too.


Wow so cool! A local source for Realforce and HHKB Pro 2 I hope. Business must be good for you to be able to stock those.
Logged
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline twolf

  • Posts: 8
Filco Issue?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 00:11:01 »
Quote from: majestouch;86104
That's great news BigWopHH, let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you. Please use the contact e-mail on elitekeyboards.com

Won't be long and we should be carrying Topre too.


Sweet!
Logged

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Filco Issue?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 07:05:22 »
Now all we need is a European distributor...
Logged

Offline ssb

  • Posts: 54
Filco Issue?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 07:19:17 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;86141
Now all we need is a European distributor...


That's true! Unfortunately European consumers have never shown much interest in quality keyboards.
Logged
Please excuse my poor English.

Offline ozar

  • Posts: 352
Filco Issue?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 11:26:50 »
Quote from: majestouch;86104
Won't be long and we should be carrying Topre too.

Wow... it truly would be great to have a local source for Majestouch, Realforce, and HHKB Pro boards.  I'll be buying at least one more of each as soon as my wallet recuperates.
Logged

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Filco Issue?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 11:52:56 »
Quote from: ozar;86179
Wow... it truly would be great to have a local source for Majestouch, Realforce, and HHKB Pro boards.  I'll be buying at least one more of each as soon as my wallet recuperates.


Yea my wallet is feeling the pain right now as well (I have 4 boards in transit). I just wish it would hurry up and fill back up so I could get more boards or one of those cool trackballs :)
Logged
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
Filco Issue?
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 18 April 2009, 17:45:29 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;86141
Now all we need is a European distributor...


Sent EliteKeyboards an email, apparently it would cost them $50 to get one sent out to me. >_>
Logged

Offline ozar

  • Posts: 352
Filco Issue?
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 18 April 2009, 19:02:40 »
Quote from: rdjack21;86185
Yea my wallet is feeling the pain right now as well (I have 4 boards in transit). I just wish it would hurry up and fill back up so I could get more boards or one of those cool trackballs :)
Yep, I've decided to give the wallet a break by trading off (or selling off) my keyboards that have number pads because I never use them and they just take up extra space.  They also cause my keyboard to always be off-center from the monitor.  That extra stretch to reach the mouse on the far right side isn't any fun, either.  If the trade off thing doesn't work, I'll sell off those boards in order to help the wallet recuperate.
Logged

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
Filco Issue?
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 18 April 2009, 22:03:01 »
Off-topic, but would it be possible to get a line or some kind of subtle alternating shading between the thread title and "last post" columns?  I clicked on two other threads unintentionally while trying to read this one.  My eyes get confused >_<.
Logged
Pages:  [1]     Go Up
« previous next »