Where to buy LEDs?

[berserkfan]

I am looking for lots of LEDs to put on several keyboards. Location is Singapore.

100-200 of each of several colors. Total purchase will be around 1000 but not of one color so I can't take advantage of the dirt cheap pricing on large orders.

I notice the prices and availability vary a lot for LEDs. For instance there is another thread about buying LEDs here but it is confined to sky blue color. I am most shocked at the exorbitant pricing in some US sellers. $0.69 per LED? How much is a realistic price and where can I find it?

Please share your experiences!

[qwack]

Try tayda. $0.02-4 per LED. No fancy colors, but the most common ones are there.

[berserkfan]

Try tayda. $0.02-4 per LED. No fancy colors, but the most common ones are there.

This is an awesome resource, thank you!

That said, I am still on the lookout for other resources. The LEDs' color selection on this site are indeed limited. But there's lots of hobbyist stuff here!

[jameslr]

I need a source for the little rectangular 1.8-2mm LEDs that fit cherry MX switches. The only LEDs I have seen are the round / oval ones. I would also like to stock up on these. A source for SIP sockets would be great too as I plan to make my Eagle with them so I can swap colors wherever I want to.

[qwack]

Tayda also have those SIP sockets for dirt cheap: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/30-pin-dip-sip-ic-sockets-adaptor-solder-type.html

For other LED colors, I usuall order from ebay sellers, usually between 5-10$ for 100 LEDs. No preferred vendors, I generally go for the cheaper ones.

If you want rectangular LEDs, search for "2x3x4" LEDs. 1.8mm LEDs are smaller, a bit less common, but they fit perfectly on MX switches:

[swill]

I have been buying mine from: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X2x3x4mm+led.TRS0&_nkw=2x3x4mm+led&_sacat=0

The seller I have been buying from mainly is: colorfulplace888

Others have mentioned that they also recommend: goodbuy7888

Cheers and happy building...

Edit: Oh, one more important note...  I would not recommend 3mm round LEDs because you will have to file to top off.  The 2x3x4mm LEDs are perfect for keyboards...

Edit2: Since SIP sockets were mentioned, here is where I bought mine (they took a month to arrive in Canada): http://www.ebay.com/itm/3PCS-Strip-Tin-PCB-Female-IC-Breakable-40pin-Single-Row-Round-Header-Socket-/200924888625?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160

[orihalcon]

I get mine from ebay.  Sellers are usually willing to give you a good bulk discount if you are buying a lot at once and everything is secure and guaranteed with paypal. 

[jameslr]

I have been buying mine from: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X2x3x4mm+led.TRS0&_nkw=2x3x4mm+led&_sacat=0

The seller I have been buying from mainly is: colorfulplace888

Others have mentioned that they also recommend: goodbuy7888

Cheers and happy building...

Edit: Oh, one more important note...  I would not recommend 3mm round LEDs because you will have to file to top off.  The 2x3x4mm LEDs are perfect for keyboards...

Edit2: Since SIP sockets were mentioned, here is where I bought mine (they took a month to arrive in Canada): http://www.ebay.com/itm/3PCS-Strip-Tin-PCB-Female-IC-Breakable-40pin-Single-Row-Round-Header-Socket-/200924888625?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160

Nice, this is exactly what I was looking for! Too bad they don't have purple LEDs :/ Oh well I guess blue will have to do.

[swill]

I have been buying mine from: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X2x3x4mm+led.TRS0&_nkw=2x3x4mm+led&_sacat=0

The seller I have been buying from mainly is: colorfulplace888

Others have mentioned that they also recommend: goodbuy7888

Cheers and happy building...

Edit: Oh, one more important note...  I would not recommend 3mm round LEDs because you will have to file to top off.  The 2x3x4mm LEDs are perfect for keyboards...

Edit2: Since SIP sockets were mentioned, here is where I bought mine (they took a month to arrive in Canada): http://www.ebay.com/itm/3PCS-Strip-Tin-PCB-Female-IC-Breakable-40pin-Single-Row-Round-Header-Socket-/200924888625?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160

Nice, this is exactly what I was looking for! Too bad they don't have purple LEDs :/ Oh well I guess blue will have to do.

There is some pink on there. I think CPT'n bought some of them a while ago. Not sure if he has any feedback on them.

I have both clear and diffused blue if you want pics.

[berserkfan]

I have both clear and diffused blue if you want pics.

Swill, are they that different? I mean, I've seen pictures of clear LEDs not illuminating the entire key if its big like right shift. But that seems to be a combination of manufacturer inexperience and wrong choice of keycaps. The plastic legends do a whole lot of diffusing to begin with,

What's your experience with both clear and diffused? I am concerned that a diffused LED won't be bright enough unless I turn the brightness up (and consume more energy + shorten life of LED). Or do you recommend a combination - use clears for 1x1keys and diffuse for the wider keys?

[jameslr]

I went ahead and bought white and blue clear LEDs and a pack of the SIP sockets. I think I may need to purchase more than 1 set of SIP sockets though so I may have to modify my order.

[swill]

I have both clear and diffused blue if you want pics.

Swill, are they that different? I mean, I've seen pictures of clear LEDs not illuminating the entire key if its big like right shift. But that seems to be a combination of manufacturer inexperience and wrong choice of keycaps. The plastic legends do a whole lot of diffusing to begin with,

What's your experience with both clear and diffused? I am concerned that a diffused LED won't be bright enough unless I turn the brightness up (and consume more energy + shorten life of LED). Or do you recommend a combination - use clears for 1x1keys and diffuse for the wider keys?

I will have to do some experimenting to really answer this question well.  I have clear blues on my board right now and I have not played with the diffused much yet.  I tried some ducky shine 3 keycaps on a sprit 60% I built for a friend and they worked alright with clear whites.  I expect you are right though, I think you probably want the clear ones if you want to try to light up a keycap (especially if its on the other side if the switch).  I think the diffused ones would look pretty good on a sprit board with the max keyboards front printed led backlit caps.  I think I would need an australian proxy to know for sure. 

To be quite honest, I am currently using this backlit keyboard with SA keycaps, so I am not trying to take advantage of the backlighting for the legends.  If I am in a darker room I sometimes turn them on so i can see the layout of the keys better.  In my case I am considering changing to diffused because I want to tone down the reflection between keys.  I am using a white PCB and a clear plate, so the light is still pretty 'crystal' when it comes up between the keycaps.  I want to try diffused to tone down the harshness of the light.

[Hundrakia]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200p-2x3x4mm-Purple-400-405nm-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp-With-Free-Resistor-234PL-/390790363654?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5afcebba06

Purple!

[qwack]

FWIW, I experimented a bit with clear & diffused LEDs of the same color, and although one was slightly brighter than the other (the diffused one, surprisingly), under large keys (such as Capslock) both failed to lit the entire legend.

What matters is the angle of view of the LED : a narrow angle (30° for instance) will not allow the entire legend to be lit; a wider angle (up to 120°) will. I think that diffused LEDs often have wider angles of view than clear LEDs, but it's not always the case. So, don't buy blindly, always look at the datasheet.

[jameslr]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200p-2x3x4mm-Purple-400-405nm-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp-With-Free-Resistor-234PL-/390790363654?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5afcebba06

Purple!

Nice find but good God they're expensive.

[berserkfan]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200p-2x3x4mm-Purple-400-405nm-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp-With-Free-Resistor-234PL-/390790363654?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5afcebba06

Purple!

Nice find but good God they're expensive.

that is what my thread wants to avoid. I notice LED prices vary a lot. Obviously it is easy to buy LEDs if you are willing to fork up 2-5x the price that some of the lesser-known sellers offer.

[swill]

I have found the prices to be pretty consistent across the different (ebay) sellers.

Where I see the big variation is between color. Most of the colors; white, blue, green, red, orange, yellow, are about $5/100. However, pink and purple almost always run about 5 times that price.

That's been my experience so far...

[berserkfan]

I have found the prices to be pretty consistent across the different (ebay) sellers.

Where I see the big variation is between color. Most of the colors; white, blue, green, red, orange, yellow, are about $5/100. However, pink and purple almost always run about 5 times that price.

That's been my experience so far...

Prices are less consistent on taobao but definitely you're right; the colors have enormously varying prices which tends to throw me off. I tend to avoid a seller if there's an exorbitant price, and wind up avoiding all because all seem to quote exorbitant prices on the purple. Now that you're shared your experience I think I should not think about finding a seller that offers equally cheap prices for all colors, because I guess that's not realistic anymore.

[berserkfan]

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=19509163695&ali_refid=a3_420434_1006:1104068787:6:%CE%ED%D7%B4LED:d1fb359c14b89a778ab97da8cf3b9ffc&ali_trackid=1_d1fb359c14b89a778ab97da8cf3b9ffc&spm=a230r.1.17.25.CGJqq5

I found this and it looks very interesting but even knowing the language is no help towards understanding how this works.

It seems to be some kind of led that can change colors. but it doesn't seem to have any way of controlling the color changes.

[qwack]

Since it has two leads, it is either a cycling LED (with a chip inside which automatically changes the color over time, but you have no control over either the color or the timing) or a bi-color LED, which can be two different colors depending on how the current flows through it (or any color between those two if you use PWM, which is what Ducky seems to be doing on its new Mini and upcoming Shine 4).

[berserkfan]

Since it has two leads, it is either a cycling LED (with a chip inside which automatically changes the color over time, but you have no control over either the color or the timing) or a bi-color LED, which can be two different colors depending on how the current flows through it (or any color between those two if you use PWM, which is what Ducky seems to be doing on its new Mini and upcoming Shine 4).

The Chinese descriptions are unambiguous about this being a multicolor cycling LED, but I just can't believe it. Among other things the price is a ridiculous 0.28 yuan. How can something like that be so cheap? Sparkfun sells them for 10x as much.

And then what resistor should I use? According to this https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/light-emitting-diodes-leds/discuss#comment-528d3bb0d3ae26651c8b4567
which I don't fully understand, it seems they are all right with users using 3.4v resistors for cycling LEDs.

[Muh Fugen]

How can something like that be so cheap? Sparkfun sells them for 10x as much.

And then what resistor should I use? According to this https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/light-emitting-diodes-leds/discuss#comment-528d3bb0d3ae26651c8b4567
which I don't fully understand, it seems they are all right with users using 3.4v resistors for cycling LEDs.

Sparkfun marks up stuff up a lot, and generally isnt a good place to buy components from. Go to a major distributor like Mouser or DigiKey. The upside to Mouser/DigiKey is that they also have full sets of data sheets so you can make sure all the different color LEDs you buy are the same (general) brightness.

What resistor should you use? Depends on your circuit, and the LED. There is no such thing as 3.4v resistors, resistors generally have 2 properties you'll work about, resistance  and rated wattage.

And since you dont know the above. You might want to do some reading before you attempt this. I can only assume you plan on powering it off the USB bus. You're going to need to find out how much power the keyboard consumes, how much power the LEDs will consume, and how much power the resistors will consume. Make sure you keep it under the rated output of the bus, and dont plug other devices in to the same bus, because your keyboard will be lying to the host about its power consumption, and it isnt a good idea to rely upon the over current protection on the USB bus.

edit: and after glancing over that sparkfun page you listed, the LEDs consume 50ma at 4.5v. A USB bus is only rated 500ma per port at 5v, so you can only really power 10 of these off a USB port. So you'd need a separate power supply to even drive these LEDs.

[dorkvader]

Note that for any combination of LEDs Vf 1.6 - 3.7 and number 0 - 100, 1.2k resistors will work (assuming 200 mA reserved for the controller). You can do the maths to make all the LEDs as bright as possible, or just go with a safe value and call it good. all those 1k resistors you have work great for slightly higher Vf (green, blue, white, etc.) LEDs.

For example:
1.6 Vf LED, 3 mA * 100 is 300 mA, with a 5V supply voltage and 1.2K resistors this should work.

edit: and after glancing over that sparkfun page you listed, the LEDs consume 50ma at 4.5v. A USB bus is only rated 500ma per port at 5v, so you can only really power 10 of these off a USB port. So you'd need a separate power supply to even drive these LEDs.

That's only if he wants to run that much current through each LED. It's make for a BLINDING keyboard.

[berserkfan]

Note that for any combination of LEDs Vf 1.6 - 3.7 and number 0 - 100, 1.2k resistors will work (assuming 200 mA reserved for the controller). You can do the maths to make all the LEDs as bright as possible, or just go with a safe value and call it good. all those 1k resistors you have work great for slightly higher Vf (green, blue, white, etc.) LEDs.

For example:
1.6 Vf LED, 3 mA * 100 is 300 mA, with a 5V supply voltage and 1.2K resistors this should work.

edit: and after glancing over that sparkfun page you listed, the LEDs consume 50ma at 4.5v. A USB bus is only rated 500ma per port at 5v, so you can only really power 10 of these off a USB port. So you'd need a separate power supply to even drive these LEDs.

That's only if he wants to run that much current through each LED. It's make for a BLINDING keyboard.

um, if I stick 104 of these on a backlit keyboard without changing the original resistors, will they work like normal leds except that they cycle through colors? I never realized things could get so complicated.

[berserkfan]

NOw here's a related question.

I notice that while color availability is limited for the popular 2x3x4mm leds, there are other sizes.  And prices are sometimes better.

Is there any reason not to use other sizes of leds in Cherry MX boards?

For instance, I saw this 1x3x4 with the following specs.

 品名规格：1*3*4 绿发绿灯 短脚正品
胶体封装：绿色透明
微尺寸：宽1.1mm*长3.4mm*高4.2mm（士0.05）MM(常用叫法是1*3*4）
波段：568-575NM
亮度：20-80MCD
电压：1.8-2.0V
电流：15MA

I understand no using them on a board with 3.4v resistors. But can these be used in a red LED keyboard with 2.2v resistors? I won’t be turning the lights to full power for hours and hours. These leds look as though the only dif between them and 2x3x4 are that they are flatter?

[qwack]

um, if I stick 104 of these on a backlit keyboard without changing the original resistors, will they work like normal leds except that they cycle through colors? I never realized things could get so complicated.

In theory, yes. In practice, the cycling time is usually not very consistent from LED to LED, so the colors will drift over time. They will all be the same color when you turn on the backlight, but after a few minutes they won't be.

NOw here's a related question.

I notice that while color availability is limited for the popular 2x3x4mm leds, there are other sizes.  And prices are sometimes better.

Is there any reason not to use other sizes of leds in Cherry MX boards?

For instance, I saw this 1x3x4 with the following specs.

 品名规格：1*3*4 绿发绿灯 短脚正品
胶体封装：绿色透明
微尺寸：宽1.1mm*长3.4mm*高4.2mm（士0.05）MM(常用叫法是1*3*4）
波段：568-575NM
亮度：20-80MCD
电压：1.8-2.0V
电流：15MA

I understand no using them on a board with 3.4v resistors. But can these be used in a red LED keyboard with 2.2v resistors? I won’t be turning the lights to full power for hours and hours. These leds look as though the only dif between them and 2x3x4 are that they are flatter?

There is no reason not to use other sizes of LEDs. As mentioned before, people have been using various LED shapes (3mm, 2x3x4 mm, 1.8 mm...) without any problems. The only significant difference between, say, a 3mm round LED and a 1x3x4 LED is the size of the casing, which may have an influence on the field of view of the LED, but does not change its electrical properties. So, if you can get those 1x3x4 LEDs in the color you want, go for it.

[dorkvader]

Note that for any combination of LEDs Vf 1.6 - 3.7 and number 0 - 100, 1.2k resistors will work (assuming 200 mA reserved for the controller). You can do the maths to make all the LEDs as bright as possible, or just go with a safe value and call it good. all those 1k resistors you have work great for slightly higher Vf (green, blue, white, etc.) LEDs.

For example:
1.6 Vf LED, 3 mA * 100 is 300 mA, with a 5V supply voltage and 1.2K resistors this should work.

edit: and after glancing over that sparkfun page you listed, the LEDs consume 50ma at 4.5v. A USB bus is only rated 500ma per port at 5v, so you can only really power 10 of these off a USB port. So you'd need a separate power supply to even drive these LEDs.

That's only if he wants to run that much current through each LED. It's make for a BLINDING keyboard.

um, if I stick 104 of these on a backlit keyboard without changing the original resistors, will they work like normal leds except that they cycle through colors? I never realized things could get so complicated.

You certainly can get LEDs that do that but certainly not in the case I presented.

There is no reason not to use other sizes of LEDs. As mentioned before, people have been using various LED shapes (3mm, 2x3x4 mm, 1.8 mm...) without any problems. The only significant difference between, say, a 3mm round LED and a 1x3x4 LED is the size of the casing, which may have an influence on the field of view of the LED, but does not change its electrical properties. So, if you can get those 1x3x4 LEDs in the color you want, go for it.

Another significant difference is that smaller cases usually handle less current. We can usually ignore this as we will be running 0.8 - 3 mA through each LED, far below the 10-20 mA maximum current limit.

[Oobly]

um, if I stick 104 of these on a backlit keyboard without changing the original resistors, will they work like normal leds except that they cycle through colors? I never realized things could get so complicated.

In theory, yes. In practice, the cycling time is usually not very consistent from LED to LED, so the colors will drift over time. They will all be the same color when you turn on the backlight, but after a few minutes they won't be.

NOw here's a related question.

I notice that while color availability is limited for the popular 2x3x4mm leds, there are other sizes.  And prices are sometimes better.

Is there any reason not to use other sizes of leds in Cherry MX boards?

For instance, I saw this 1x3x4 with the following specs.

 品名规格：1*3*4 绿发绿灯 短脚正品
胶体封装：绿色透明
微尺寸：宽1.1mm*长3.4mm*高4.2mm（士0.05）MM(常用叫法是1*3*4）
波段：568-575NM
亮度：20-80MCD
电压：1.8-2.0V
电流：15MA

I understand no using them on a board with 3.4v resistors. But can these be used in a red LED keyboard with 2.2v resistors? I won’t be turning the lights to full power for hours and hours. These leds look as though the only dif between them and 2x3x4 are that they are flatter?

There is no reason not to use other sizes of LEDs. As mentioned before, people have been using various LED shapes (3mm, 2x3x4 mm, 1.8 mm...) without any problems. The only significant difference between, say, a 3mm round LED and a 1x3x4 LED is the size of the casing, which may have an influence on the field of view of the LED, but does not change its electrical properties. So, if you can get those 1x3x4 LEDs in the color you want, go for it.

Yup, it'll be unicorn vomit backlighting... Active unicorn vomit backlighting... eeeww..

Resistors are used as current limiters when used with LED's. So if you want to be as accurate as possible, you calculate the voltage dropped across the resistor by subtracting the voltage drop of the LED from the source voltage. Then you use V=IR to calculate the resistance you need for the desired current flow. In practice, you can use a range of resistor values since you don't want to run the LED's at full brightness all the time. That would draw too much current from the USB port and be mega bright. So the LED's installed in most boards will work with any LED's, but some LED's may end up too bright or too dim for your taste if the ones you switch in have a big difference in voltage drop.