New MD Keyboard Pics

[OverKill]

[caesar]

They created KBT pure 

[jdcarpe]

They created KBT pure 

Not exactly. Notice the 15 1-unit keys across the top row, with no 2-unit backspace. Also, the bottom row is different than a standard ANSI, with a 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 layout.

Ugh, 6.00-unit spacebar.

[dorkvader]

All their prototypes were at keycon. You can see the presentation on the controller they plan to use (MC HCK) here:

Also note the spacebar: smoke grey vs. the blank black PBT of the other keycaps.

[jacobolus]

Hopefully we can do http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61558.0;topicseen (as one option) for keycaps.

[Oobly]

....

Ugh, 6.00-unit spacebar.

AAAAAAARRGHH!!!!!

Why u do dis? That's really not bright. Perhaps the left outermost cap should be a 1.25x or just make all 7 of the bottom row mods 1.25x like the Pure (despite what the HHKB purists may say, it's not any different in actual use and looks better / has better symmetry)

Not being able to swap keycaps is an immediate "not going to buy" for me and probably a lot of others. The Alps / MX compatibility is a GREAT feature, though. Still... no 6.25x spaceber = "not going to buy".

[bueller]

....

Ugh, 6.00-unit spacebar.

AAAAAAARRGHH!!!!!

Why u do dis? That's really not bright. Perhaps the left outermost cap should be a 1.25x or just make all 7 of the bottom row mods 1.25x like the Pure (despite what the HHKB purists may say, it's not any different in actual use and looks better / has better symmetry)

Not being able to swap keycaps is an immediate "not going to buy" for me and probably a lot of others. The Alps / MX compatibility is a GREAT feature, though. Still... no 6.25x spaceber = "not going to buy".

I'm the same. Anything more difficult to find than a tsangan set and I'm out. Pretty dumb really, why not just use a standard bottom row? They've added nothing special with those weird sizes.

[jacobolus]

Ugh, 6.00-unit spacebar.

AAAAAAARRGHH!!!!! Why u do dis? That's really not bright.

I'm the same. Anything more difficult to find than a tsangan set and I'm out. Pretty dumb really, why not just use a standard bottom row? They've added nothing special with those weird sizes.

There was a vote. https://www.massdrop.com/vote/60-keyboard-layouts
This particular layout got >300 votes.

Personally, I am not the biggest fan (really any spacebar longer than 3u long is stupid), but the goal seems to be to prove that whatever the community wants to buy is possible to make, so just exactly implementing the top-voted layout seems like a reasonable enough decision.

[RED-404]

This layout "Happy Hacking Keyboard 3" has the most votes that's why. https://www.massdrop.com/vote/60-keyboard-layouts?mode=guest_open
I actually like the really short space-bars or split space-bars not hard to find keys for and allows for more keys.

Edit: jacobolus beat me. 

[Melvang]

I am out with the 6unit space bar as well.

Though I am curious how the manage compatibility between with MX and Alps on plate mount.

[bazh]

eventhough 6x spacebar is a no-go for me because of compatible problem, I still quite like it

[Oobly]

This layout "Happy Hacking Keyboard 3" has the most votes that's why. https://www.massdrop.com/vote/60-keyboard-layouts?mode=guest_open
I actually like the really short space-bars or split space-bars not hard to find keys for and allows for more keys.

Edit: jacobolus beat me. 

Which just goes to prove the saying that "none of us are as stupid as all of us"....

I am out with the 6unit space bar as well.

Though I am curious how the manage compatibility between with MX and Alps on plate mount.

The mount hole has vertical spacing for MX switches (14mm) and horizontal for Alps (15.5mm) which creates corners for indexing both switch types and allows both to fit snugly. An advantage is it allows MX switches to be opened when mounted.

I would rather have this layout (edited from jacobulus's image):



The small spacebars / backspacebars are 2.75x caps, blank right shifts will work.

[tbc]

does this actually have a prototype?

i thought mx + alps plates were a ***** and never done before.

[Matt3o]

I knew about this keyboard and Andrew from Massdrop explicitly asked not to leak the info (yesterday's news). So unless something changed over night, this won't be a pleasant surprise when the Californians will wake up...

[bueller]

I wonder if people just voted for that because they thought they were voting for an actual HHKB 3, can't see why so many people would vote that bizarre layout otherwise.

[Matt3o]

why weird? it seems pretty standard, apart from the 6u spacebar

[bueller]

why weird? it seems pretty standard, apart from the 6u spacebar

Seems weird changing the sizes of all the bottom row keys when they didn't actually change the layout. They could have achieved the exact same end result with 1.25x keys.

The bottom right mods are the most annoying for me, I like to use those as nav keys so they mixture of 1.5 and 1x would be annoying as hell.

[jacobolus]

can't see why so many people would vote that bizarre layout otherwise.

I know, right?

* Not enough hand separation
* No angle or tenting of the hands leaving the wrists in an awkward position
* Not symmetrical
* Even the stagger between rows is uneven and arbitrary and asymmetrical
* Common keys in hard to reach places
* Lots of keys much larger than necessary
* Two strongest fingers tragically underused
* Crazy overloading of the right pinky finger
* Some keys almost impossible to learn the positions of
* Numbers laid out so that the most common numbers are the hardest to get to and are typed with the weakest fingers
* Common letters are not on the home row
* Just in general the letter layout seems totally arbitrary

But hey, at least it doesn’t have a caps lock key!

Wait, what were we talking about?

[bueller]

can't see why so many people would vote that bizarre layout otherwise.

I know, right?

* Not enough hand separation
* No angle or tenting of the hands leaving the wrists in an awkward position
* Not symmetrical
* Even the stagger between rows is uneven and arbitrary and asymmetrical
* Common keys in hard to reach places
* Lots of keys much larger than necessary
* Two strongest fingers tragically underused
* Crazy overloading of the right pinky finger
* Some keys almost impossible to learn the positions of
* Numbers laid out so that the most common numbers are the hardest to get to and are typed with the weakest fingers
* Common letters are not on the home row
* Just in general the letter layout seems totally arbitrary

But hey, at least it doesn’t have a caps lock key!

Wait, what were we talking about?

Haha I thought I'd stumbled into an Ergodox thread for a second there.

[jacobolus]

can't see why so many people would vote that bizarre layout otherwise.

I know, right? [...]

Haha I thought I'd stumbled into an Ergodox thread for a second there.

But seriously, if we fix the bottom row, add some more thumb keys, and slim down the ridiculous oversized keys from a standard keyboard, then the asymmetries inherent in the design and the sheer arbitrariness of the layout become very obvious, and it’s easy to see how silly (stupid) they are:

Look how absurdly imbalanced that is to the right side?
(And this layout is with just those simple changes already better than 99% of the typewriter/computer keyboards ever sold. And still look how stupid it is when it’s forced to keep up with “muscle memory” built up on standard keyboards.)

Arguing about whether the spacebar should be 6u or 6.25u seems very silly indeed.

Edit: here’s the essence of a standard IBM/ANSI layout keyboard:

[bueller]

can't see why so many people would vote that bizarre layout otherwise.

I know, right? [...]

Haha I thought I'd stumbled into an Ergodox thread for a second there.

But seriously, if we fix the bottom row, add some more thumb keys, and slim down the ridiculous oversized keys from a standard keyboard, then the asymmetries inherent in the design become very obvious, and it’s easy to see how silly (stupid) they are:

Show Image

Look how absurdly imbalanced that is to the right side?
(And this layout is with just those simple changes already better than 99% of the typewriter/computer keyboards ever sold. And still look how stupid it is when it’s forced to keep up with “muscle memory” built up on standard keyboards.)

Arguing about whether the spacebar should be 6u or 6.25u seems very silly indeed.

Well from a keycap availability perspective, not really.

[Matt3o]

can't see why so many people would vote that bizarre layout otherwise.

I know, right?

* Not enough hand separation
* No angle or tenting of the hands leaving the wrists in an awkward position
* Not symmetrical
* Even the stagger between rows is uneven and arbitrary and asymmetrical
* Common keys in hard to reach places
* Lots of keys much larger than necessary
* Two strongest fingers tragically underused
* Crazy overloading of the right pinky finger
* Some keys almost impossible to learn the positions of
* Numbers laid out so that the most common numbers are the hardest to get to and are typed with the weakest fingers
* Common letters are not on the home row
* Just in general the letter layout seems totally arbitrary

But hey, at least it doesn’t have a caps lock key!

Wait, what were we talking about?

you basically ruled out 99% of the keyboards

post your ideal layout, I can build it for you (if I like it and there's some interest)

[jacobolus]

you basically ruled out 99% of the keyboards

I know, right? Keyboards are pretty much all terrible. Which was excusable in the 1870s. Not excusable anymore.

post your ideal layout, I can build it for you (if I like it and there's some interest)

We’re getting way off topic. But I plan to build it myself. It still needs a bunch of experimentation to get right.

[Oobly]

...

Arguing about whether the spacebar should be 6u or 6.25u seems very silly indeed.

...

Nope. It's not. A big benefit of owning a Cherry MX board is being able to replace the keycaps. Exactly how many aftermarket keycap sets have 6x spacebars? That's a limitation I would like to avoid, so therefore I will avoid buying this keyboard.

Just changing it to a standard bottom row would make it just about perfect, though. Still you need to find sets with 1.75x right shift, but I have to do that already for my KBT Pure and most GB's include an optional kit that has one, so no worries.

As and aside, will there be an Alps version of the keycaps available at some point?

[Melvang]

...

Arguing about whether the spacebar should be 6u or 6.25u seems very silly indeed.

...

Nope. It's not. A big benefit of owning a Cherry MX board is being able to replace the keycaps. Exactly how many aftermarket keycap sets have 6x spacebars? That's a limitation I would like to avoid, so therefore I will avoid buying this keyboard.

Just changing it to a standard bottom row would make it just about perfect, though. Still you need to find sets with 1.75x right shift, but I have to do that already for my KBT Pure and most GB's include an optional kit that has one, so no worries.

As and aside, will there be an Alps version of the keycaps available at some point?

The only GB I can think of off the top of my head that had a 6 unit was the toxic group buy, but that was a $32 space bar pack.

[SpAmRaY]

dat spacebar....

[osi]

Massdrop is planning to release a keyset along with this keyboard that features a 6x spacebar. $$$$

[jdcarpe]

Well, it can't have been that big a secret, since those who attended KeyCon were able to see a prototype.

And yes, the 6.00-unit spacebar was not a great decision. This is what comes from putting all your faith in polls. "People" think they want something, but "people" don't actually know what they're doing. Better to get advice from a person or community that knows the product well, and who can advise the correct plan of action.

I'm not trying to disparage the designer(s), who were simply following the design spec they were given. But somewhere along the way common sense should have ruled the design. When you design a keyboard for enthusiasts, using a full-size spacebar other than 6.25- or 7.00-units is probably not going to earn you fans.

[Matt3o]

Well, it can't have been that big a secret, since those who attended KeyCon were able to see a prototype.

And yes, the 6.00-unit spacebar was not a great decision. This is what comes from putting all your faith in polls. "People" think they want something, but "people" don't actually know what they're doing. Better to get advice from a person or community that knows the product well, and who can advise the correct plan of action.

I'm not trying to disparage the designer(s), who were simply following the design spec they were given. But somewhere along the way common sense should have ruled the design. When you design a keyboard for enthusiasts, using a full-size spacebar other than 6.25- or 7.00-units is probably not going to earn you fans.

I believe massdrop point is "give people what they want". If that is the layout they voted, that will be the layout they'll buy.

[SpAmRaY]

Well, it can't have been that big a secret, since those who attended KeyCon were able to see a prototype.

And yes, the 6.00-unit spacebar was not a great decision. This is what comes from putting all your faith in polls. "People" think they want something, but "people" don't actually know what they're doing. Better to get advice from a person or community that knows the product well, and who can advise the correct plan of action.

I'm not trying to disparage the designer(s), who were simply following the design spec they were given. But somewhere along the way common sense should have ruled the design. When you design a keyboard for enthusiasts, using a full-size spacebar other than 6.25- or 7.00-units is probably not going to earn you fans.

I believe massdrop point is "give people what they want". If that is the layout they voted, that will be the layout they'll buy.

Do people realize though what they are voting for when voting for a 6x spacebar? That it won't be easily replaced and won't match replacement key sets?

Or perhaps the targeted customer doesn't care about replacing keys.

[Matt3o]

probably the average massdrop user is less hardcore.

[Data]

probably the average massdrop user is less hardcore.

This, absolutely.

[berserkfan]

Ugh, 6.00-unit spacebar.

AAAAAAARRGHH!!!!! Why u do dis? That's really not bright.

I'm the same. Anything more difficult to find than a tsangan set and I'm out. Pretty dumb really, why not just use a standard bottom row? They've added nothing special with those weird sizes.

There was a vote. https://www.massdrop.com/vote/60-keyboard-layouts
This particular layout got >300 votes.

Personally, I am not the biggest fan (really any spacebar longer than 3u long is stupid), but the goal seems to be to prove that whatever the community wants to buy is possible to make, so just exactly implementing the top-voted layout seems like a reasonable enough decision.

I love my 1x spacebars.

That said, I am quite a freak and know that my preferences are weird in others' minds.

[dorkvader]

Guys, the 6.00 unit spacebar is not a problem. Why are we still arguing about it?

The reason I say this is that a 6.25 unit spacebar should easily fit on there if you also swap the 1.5-unit caps to 1.25 unit (freeing up 0.25 units total for the spacebar)


Even the worst case scenario is that you end up with 1x modifiers. Still not a big deal.

[Melvang]

Guys, the 6.00 unit spacebar is not a problem. Why are we still arguing about it?

The reason I say this is that a 6.25 unit spacebar should easily fit on there if you also swap the 1.5-unit caps to 1.25 unit (freeing up 0.25 units total for the spacebar)


Even the worst case scenario is that you end up with 1x modifiers. Still not a big deal.

It is a big deal for those of us with OCD because then you have a gap between mods instead.

Edit:  I don't believe that will work anyway.  according to this page the stabilizer locations don't match.

[jdcarpe]

Guys, the 6.00 unit spacebar is not a problem. Why are we still arguing about it?

The reason I say this is that a 6.25 unit spacebar should easily fit on there if you also swap the 1.5-unit caps to 1.25 unit (freeing up 0.25 units total for the spacebar)


Even the worst case scenario is that you end up with 1x modifiers. Still not a big deal.

Are you 100% certain that the stabilizer mount points are the same?

[Melvang]

It "could" work but you would have to do a stem mod.

[nathairtras]

Really unfortunate.  Would love a non-custom 60% with split backspace and right shift, but the spacebar....

[dorkvader]

Guys, the 6.00 unit spacebar is not a problem. Why are we still arguing about it?

The reason I say this is that a 6.25 unit spacebar should easily fit on there if you also swap the 1.5-unit caps to 1.25 unit (freeing up 0.25 units total for the spacebar)


Even the worst case scenario is that you end up with 1x modifiers. Still not a big deal.

It is a big deal for those of us with OCD because then you have a gap between mods instead.

Edit:  I don't believe that will work anyway.  according to this page the stabilizer locations don't match.

I notice that there are places for two stab widths. One may work with 6.25.

[noisyturtle]

Massdrop! Your one-stop shop for slightly under-priced keyboards, retail priced audio equipment at no discount, overtly expensive smoking paraphernalia, and all the hipster bull**** clothing and accessories you could want!

[bueller]

Massdrop! Your one-stop shop for slightly under-priced keyboards, retail priced audio equipment at no discount, overtly expensive smoking paraphernalia, and all the hipster bull**** clothing and accessories you could want!

Hahaha this made laugh pretty good.

[Puddsy]

It's a GON skinny

Pass

[0100010]

Misleading thread title is misleading....

I thought the thread was about a keyboard in a doctors office that had something (blood?) leaking out of it.

Carry on...