HHK2 - Can't decide on US or JP layout + Some more questions

[DR33M]

Hey guys, I'm looking at ordering a HHK2 from Japan (though a proxy) but I can't make up my mind on whether to get the version with the US or the JP layout.

I'm European so I'm already used to having quotation-marks on shift+2 and "&" on shift+6 which I do prefer a lot over the US layout. The things that really wins me over though is the bigger enter key and the fact that you get to keep the arrow keys instead of having wasted space in the bottom corners. However, since I haven't tested a keyboard with a Japanese layout before I'm not sure how I feel about the shorter spacebar and the smaller modifierkeys on the bottom row. Also, the smaller backspace seems like it might become a cause of frustration as well. I don't really care about the shorter right-shift though, since I ever hardly use it on my current keyboard.

So, do you guys have any experiences with Japanese-style keyboards? Is the shorter spacebar a hindrance while typing in English?

Another thing that bothered me about the JP version is that it doesn't come with blank keycaps. Since the modifierkyes now seems to be sized like regular letter keys though, would it be possible to just get the extra package of blank keycaps for the KB400BN and have them fit on the JP version as well?

Finally, are there any other differences between the US and JP versions that I should be aware of? Any and all tips are appreciated!

[Hypersphere]

My impression is that the original HHKB Pro 2 layout was designed by Prof Wada in Japan and that the Japanese layout came later, partly in response to requests for dedicated arrow keys.

Based on my use of the HHKB Pro 2 standard layout for over a year and my trials of various other sub-TKL keyboards with dedicated arrow keys, I have always found the HHKB Pro 2 layout to be superior. Including arrow keys in a ~60% layout keyboard always seems to create other problems.

However, some of the features I prefer in the standard HHKB Pro 2 layout include a relatively large Right Shift and Backspace keys. I also much prefer the Fn key to be to the right of the Right Shift key. On the other hand, I would actually prefer to have a very small Spacebar.

My own preference would definitely be the standard HHKB Pro 2 rather than the Japanese layout with dedicated arrow keys. Of course, the choice of layout ultimately comes down to personal preference. Although it could be expensive, you might just have to try them both and then sell the one you do not like. Fortunately, the resale value of either HHKB remains high.

[mreverything]

I've never used the Japanese layouts, but the standard HHKB Pro 2 layout has been great for me. I type in a few languages regularly -- I use blank caps and switch between modifier layouts in the OS.

[dorkvader]

My impression is that the original HHKB Pro 2 layout was designed by Prof Wada in Japan and that the Japanese layout came later, partly in response to requests for dedicated arrow keys.

Based on my use of the HHKB Pro 2 standard layout for over a year and my trials of various other sub-TKL keyboards with dedicated arrow keys, I have always found the HHKB Pro 2 layout to be superior. Including arrow keys in a ~60% layout keyboard always seems to create other problems.

However, some of the features I prefer in the standard HHKB Pro 2 layout include a relatively large Right Shift and Backspace keys. I also much prefer the Fn key to be to the right of the Right Shift key. On the other hand, I would actually prefer to have a very small Spacebar.

My own preference would definitely be the standard HHKB Pro 2 rather than the Japanese layout with dedicated arrow keys. Of course, the choice of layout ultimately comes down to personal preference. Although it could be expensive, you might just have to try them both and then sell the one you do not like. Fortunately, the resale value of either HHKB remains high.

Not just response for dedicated layout keys: I believe many japanese input systems require them, so having arrow keys that are not shared with letter keys is a must: absolutely required for some of the japanese input systems.

Anyway, I usually press the enter over too far to make use of most japanese layouts, so I recommend normal hhkb.

[cphead]

I have both and I love them both equally. The smaller spacebar isn't a problem for typing for the most part. You get used to it. I love the big enter on the JP. There are some differences in the keys on the JP that won't be same if you're typing english though. Some keys are straight up not used, like the kana key and the yen key.

The classic HHKB setup is definitely really good though, so unless you want dedicated arrow keys I would go with the standard.

[Puddsy]

I'm partial to the JIS layout version because I like how strange it looks.

[jwaz]

JIS version is basically just a marketing project based on PFU Fujistu's HHKB brand.

Get the Pro2 or Type-S.

[dorkvader]

JIS version is basically just a marketing project based on PFU Fujistu's HHKB brand.

What do you mean by this? Did they advertise it or otherwise market it heavily somewhere in Japan?

Get the Pro2 or Type-S.

JIS layout is available for both. Did you mean to say "get the US layout" (Using the parlance of the OP)?

[DR33M]

I have both and I love them both equally. The smaller spacebar isn't a problem for typing for the most part. You get used to it. I love the big enter on the JP. There are some differences in the keys on the JP that won't be same if you're typing english though. Some keys are straight up not used, like the kana key and the yen key.

The classic HHKB setup is definitely really good though, so unless you want dedicated arrow keys I would go with the standard.

Wow, one of each. I hadn't even thought about that possibility, couldn't really afford it at the moment but man am I jealous of you...

[cphead]

JIS version is basically just a marketing project based on PFU Fujistu's HHKB brand.

Get the Pro2 or Type-S.

It's the only Topre board with the layout it has. And it's nice and thocky just like the other casemounted HHKBs.

[Hypersphere]

There are only two potential improvements I could imagine for my HHKB Pro 2. One is available for purchase, and it would be the silenced version, called the Type-S. It seems expensive, but doing a "silence mod" on a HHKB involves dismantling the keyboard and installing dental bands or landing pads on the sliders, which changes the key travel somewhat and does not employ the closer tolerances of the Type-S switch. In the end, I think it would be worth it to spring for the Type-S. The other modification I think I might like is to have 55g switches instead of the 45g in the standard keyboard. The heavier switches are not available for purchase, and so one would have to open the keyboard and transplant 55g domes from a 55g Topre keyboard. However, not everyone prefers the Type-S or heavier switches. All things considered, I would recommend either the standard HHKB Pro 2 or the Type-S.

Other considerations include color and printed or non-printed keycaps. The standard HHKB Pro 2 is available in 4 combinations: white or black, each printed or non-printed. The Type-S is available only in white, but in printed or non-printed keycaps.

[DR33M]

There are only two potential improvements I could imagine for my HHKB Pro 2. One is available for purchase, and it would be the silenced version, called the Type-S. It seems expensive, but doing a "silence mod" on a HHKB involves dismantling the keyboard and installing dental bands or landing pads on the sliders, which changes the key travel somewhat and does not employ the closer tolerances of the Type-S switch. In the end, I think it would be worth it to spring for the Type-S. The other modification I think I might like is to have 55g switches instead of the 45g in the standard keyboard. The heavier switches are not available for purchase, and so one would have to open the keyboard and transplant 55g domes from a 55g Topre keyboard. However, not everyone prefers the Type-S or heavier switches. All things considered, I would recommend either the standard HHKB Pro 2 or the Type-S.

Other considerations include color and printed or non-printed keycaps. The standard HHKB Pro 2 is available in 4 combinations: white or black, each printed or non-printed. The Type-S is available only in white, but in printed or non-printed keycaps.

Yeah, I would've gone for the Type-S if it had been available in black, they should've listened to Ford, the only color one would ever need is black! 

[yasuo]

JIS version is basically just a marketing project based on PFU Fujistu's HHKB brand.

Get the Pro2 or Type-S.

HHKB Pro is design of eiti wada, JIS version PFU design i think

[BB__]

I have both of them.




These days I only use JP version because of my key shortcuts. I use "muhenkan, henkan" keys as fn layers.




In my case, I should have just bought only JP or Type-s JP. YMMV

BTW, I also bought from japan using buyee.jp
Exact links I bought:
http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/g131355918
http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/f134595643

[DR33M]

You're not bothered by the shorter spacebar then?

In your pictures the JP-ver looks a bit wider than the original with the standard layout. Would this mean that accessories like the plastic top-cover and the wrist-rest wouldn't fit it?

(BTW a big thanks for taking time to actually take pictures of both of them.)

[jwaz]

JIS version is basically just a marketing project based on PFU Fujistu's HHKB brand.

Get the Pro2 or Type-S.

HHKB Pro is design of eiti wada, JIS version PFU design i think

That is essentially the point I was trying to make.

[BB__]

Nope. Space bar was just ok for me when I use it first time.

Both of them are exact same width and height. I think it only looks wider because of camera angle.

[MJ45]

There are only two potential improvements I could imagine for my HHKB Pro 2. One is available for purchase, and it would be the silenced version, called the Type-S. It seems expensive, but doing a "silence mod" on a HHKB involves dismantling the keyboard and installing dental bands or landing pads on the sliders, which changes the key travel somewhat and does not employ the closer tolerances of the Type-S switch. In the end, I think it would be worth it to spring for the Type-S. The other modification I think I might like is to have 55g switches instead of the 45g in the standard keyboard. The heavier switches are not available for purchase, and so one would have to open the keyboard and transplant 55g domes from a 55g Topre keyboard. However, not everyone prefers the Type-S or heavier switches. All things considered, I would recommend either the standard HHKB Pro 2 or the Type-S.

Other considerations include color and printed or non-printed keycaps. The standard HHKB Pro 2 is available in 4 combinations: white or black, each printed or non-printed. The Type-S is available only in white, but in printed or non-printed keycaps.

Yeah, I would've gone for the Type-S if it had been available in black, they should've listened to Ford, the only color one would ever need is black!

There are black HHKB JP's available, I've seen them on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-PFU-Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional-JP-Sumi-array-USB-From-Japan-/251637362525?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3a96c16f5d that price is steep but they can be found. The PFU Fujitsu HHKB website shows black SUMI JP http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/hhkbprojp/ The HHKB JP Type S is only in white also.