Switch Hitter + strangeness

[Fragil1ty]

So as some of you may or may not know, I've recently bought a KUL ES-87 to replace my Noppoo because of chattering/bouncing issues.

If you are unaware chattering/bouncing is where you will be typing and you press 1 key and 2 will press or more, for example: chattering may produce chatteringg or chatterring etc. So that's essentially what happens. A lot of the time this can be disguised as "Oh, I'm just typing so fast and I'm on MX reds, maybe I accidentally pressed the key twice?", but other times it is not that obvious and you can blatantly tell that you have an issue with your keyboard.

I went ahead and for my peace of mind I thought I would try out this "Switch hitter" application (Completely free, provided by Elite Keyboards) and see if any of my keys on my Noppoo would appear to be chattering or bouncing.

http://elitekeyboards.com/switchhitter.php



This is what you are supposed to see if you experience chattering on your keyboard, but I did all three tests.

30 CTH,
20 CTH and
10 CTH.

Surprisingly enough when I were testing the keyboard, none of my keys on the Noppoo provided any evidence that my keys had issues, chattering or bouncing issues, so this begs the question.

What the F*** is going on? Have I just gone out and bought a brand new keyboard for nothing? Any ideas?

[Oobly]

So... Despite what the program shows, and I know I've asked this before (without getting an answer), but did you try changing the debounce time?

[Fragil1ty]

So... Despite what the program shows, and I know I've asked this before (without getting an answer), but did you try changing the debounce time?

Yes mate, multiple times.


I've tried going up and down, if you decrease it too much though, your key strokes aren't even registered properly.

[keyhopper]

[...]
What the F*** is going on? Have I just gone out and bought a brand new keyboard for nothing? Any ideas?

Yes,
Try the following:
    1) Open a text editor that wraps when you pass the screen width automatically (or just "cat > /dev/null" in a linux console).
    2) Hold the key down and watch it repeat fast.
    3) Move the finger, without letting go of the key, around the key, pushing forward, backward, at angles, and so on.
    4) If the key stops repeating for an instant, that key has chatter because of bad contact.

You can see a difference between keys that work fine and the key that doesn't using this method. (At least if the cause for your chattering key was similar to mine).

I have a Razer with orange switches, two months old, and it already recently produced a chattering key, the 'D' key, which I fixed the same way as I fixed keys with a strange "rusty spring" sound that appeared previously: with isoprophyl alcohol.

My current theory is that they are putting some poor quality lubricant inside the switch, which might be getting its solid and liquid components separated, wreaking havoc inside the switches. Though I haven't dissasembled it to make sure, so this is just speculation.

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

[keyhopper]

Also see:

       http://www.overclock.net/t/1393125/double-tapping-issues-with-razer-blackwidow#post_20077316
and:
       http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62819.msg1475971#msg1475971

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

[Fragil1ty]

[...]
What the F*** is going on? Have I just gone out and bought a brand new keyboard for nothing? Any ideas?

Yes,
Try the following:
    1) Open a text editor that wraps when you pass the screen width automatically (or just "cat > /dev/null" in a linux console).
    2) Hold the key down and watch it repeat fast.
    3) Move the finger, without letting go of the key, around the key, pushing forward, backward, at angles, and so on.
    4) If the key stops repeating for an instant, that key has chatter because of bad contact.

You can see a difference between keys that work fine and the key that doesn't using this method. (At least if the cause for your chattering key was similar to mine).

I have a Razer with orange switches, two months old, and it already recently produced a chattering key, the 'D' key, which I fixed the same way as I fixed keys with a strange "rusty spring" sound that appeared previously: with isoprophyl alcohol.

My current theory is that they are putting some poor quality lubricant inside the switch, which might be getting its solid and liquid components separated, wreaking havoc inside the switches. Though I haven't dissasembled it to make sure, so this is just speculation.

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

So essentially, find out what keys are the ones causing the chattering then buy some isoprophyl alcohol and put a few drops inside those keys?

[keyhopper]

[...]
What the F*** is going on? Have I just gone out and bought a brand new keyboard for nothing? Any ideas?

Yes,
Try the following:
    1) Open a text editor that wraps when you pass the screen width automatically (or just "cat > /dev/null" in a linux console).
    2) Hold the key down and watch it repeat fast.
    3) Move the finger, without letting go of the key, around the key, pushing forward, backward, at angles, and so on.
    4) If the key stops repeating for an instant, that key has chatter because of bad contact.

You can see a difference between keys that work fine and the key that doesn't using this method. (At least if the cause for your chattering key was similar to mine).

I have a Razer with orange switches, two months old, and it already recently produced a chattering key, the 'D' key, which I fixed the same way as I fixed keys with a strange "rusty spring" sound that appeared previously: with isoprophyl alcohol.

My current theory is that they are putting some poor quality lubricant inside the switch, which might be getting its solid and liquid components separated, wreaking havoc inside the switches. Though I haven't dissasembled it to make sure, so this is just speculation.

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

So essentially, find out what keys are the ones causing the chattering then buy some isoprophyl alcohol and put a few drops inside those keys?

Yes. But I was giving you a method that worked for me to distinguish double-activating keys for sure.

It may seem counter intuitive, but the chattering key didn't produce solid, continuous repeats when holding it down and wiggling the key forward, backward and in angles while pressed down. It makes sense because obviously the two plates of the switch aren't making good contact. So, when released after a keypress the bouncing is more messy.

In short, the repeats stopped according to the angle in which it was pressed while holding it down. In healthy keys, the repeats never stop no matter how one presses or massages the key.


In the EK website they also say something about pressing it in different ways:

       "During each test every switch on the keyboard must be pressed multiple times, with both light and heavy force."
       https://elitekeyboards.com/switchhitter.php

I hope this helps in some way. Have you already tried this?: http://www.overclock.net/t/1393125/double-tapping-issues-with-razer-blackwidow#post_20077316

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

EDIT: fixed typos

[Fragil1ty]

[...]
What the F*** is going on? Have I just gone out and bought a brand new keyboard for nothing? Any ideas?

Yes,
Try the following:
    1) Open a text editor that wraps when you pass the screen width automatically (or just "cat > /dev/null" in a linux console).
    2) Hold the key down and watch it repeat fast.
    3) Move the finger, without letting go of the key, around the key, pushing forward, backward, at angles, and so on.
    4) If the key stops repeating for an instant, that key has chatter because of bad contact.

You can see a difference between keys that work fine and the key that doesn't using this method. (At least if the cause for your chattering key was similar to mine).

I have a Razer with orange switches, two months old, and it already recently produced a chattering key, the 'D' key, which I fixed the same way as I fixed keys with a strange "rusty spring" sound that appeared previously: with isoprophyl alcohol.

My current theory is that they are putting some poor quality lubricant inside the switch, which might be getting its solid and liquid components separated, wreaking havoc inside the switches. Though I haven't dissasembled it to make sure, so this is just speculation.

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

So essentially, find out what keys are the ones causing the chattering then buy some isoprophyl alcohol and put a few drops inside those keys?

Yes. But I was giving you a method that worked for me to distinguish double-activating keys for sure.

It may seem counter intuitive, but the chattering key didn't produce solid, continuous repeats when holding it down and wiggling the key forward, backward and in angles while pressed down. It makes sense because obviously the two plates of the switch aren't making good contact. So, when released after a keypress the bouncing is more messy.

In short, the repeats stopped according to the angle in which it was pressed while holding it down. In healthy keys, the repeats never stop no matter how one presses or massages the key.


In the EK website they also say something about pressing it in different ways:

       "During each test every switch on the keyboard must be pressed multiple times, with both light and heavy force."
       https://elitekeyboards.com/switchhitter.php

I hope this helps in some way. Have you already tried this?: http://www.overclock.net/t/1393125/double-tapping-issues-with-razer-blackwidow#post_20077316

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

EDIT: fixed typos

I'm going to have to buy some off Amazon first and try it that way before I go ahead and even think about doing anything to my KB, thanks a lot though, I appreciate it dude!

[Oobly]

So... Despite what the program shows, and I know I've asked this before (without getting an answer), but did you try changing the debounce time?

Yes mate, multiple times.


I've tried going up and down, if you decrease it too much though, your key strokes aren't even registered properly.

Good to know, thanks for answering.

keyhopper, that's great info, thanks for posting! I haven't yet had chattering issues with any of my boards, but now I know how to check the switches if I ever do.

Fragil1ty, looks like your Noppoo may well live to be enjoyed for a long time yet Really hope you get this sorted, mate. You've had a bad run with it.