Author Topic: OCZ Sabre  (Read 2982 times)

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Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 09:39:48 »
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15494
 
It was just a matter of time.  OCZ is (somewhat) copying Art Lebedev with incorporating OLED keys on their latest 'board.  OCZ is using monochrome (at least from what I could tell) OLED modules unlike AL whi uses full color modules.  I'm sure they also use rubber domes and not Cherry MLs as well.  All of that lower tech yeilds a $199 retail price for the Sabre.
 
I still won't buy it, but someone will, I'm sure.


Offline Manyak

  • Posts: 295
OCZ Sabre
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:02:17 »
If you read the specs on their website (here) it says "Super tactile, low-noise key feedback" rated for 5 million keystrokes.

Make of that what you will.
Currently Owned:
Filco FKBN104MC/EB - Model M 1390131 \'86 - Model M 1391401 NIB - Unicomp Endurapro NIB - iRocks KR-6230 - Compaq MX-11800 - Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Cherry ML-4100 - Cherry MY-8000-something - Dell AT101W (Black) - ABS M1 - Siig Minitouch - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys NIB - Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 - Deck Legend

Offline Repoman

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:04:23 »
Side lighting? WTF?

Offline zwmalone

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:07:39 »
Quote from: Manyak;98802
If you read the specs on their website (here) it says "Super tactile, low-noise key feedback" rated for 5 million keystrokes.

Make of that what you will.


Too low for Cherrys. ALPS f some sort?
Can't get enough of them ALPS

Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:10:21 »
Quote from: zwmalone;98805
Too low for Cherrys. ALPS f some sort?

I'm pretty sure they're scissor switches.
 
EDIT: Looking at it again, they look like they're probably regular rubber domes. The ones Logitech uses in the wave are pretty good, so I guess they could be "super tactile."


Offline ch_123

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:21:13 »
Only nine keys have the OLEDs, so if you do the math, it's a ripoff compared with the Optimus keyboard...

Offline lowpoly

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:22:38 »
A nine button usb-gadget would have done here?

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Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:32:12 »
Quote from: ripster;98812
At least you don't need a wall wart power supply like the G19. I hate power supplies going to a keyboard.

Tell that to lowpoly and his mini-keyboard.
 
 
At least that one is optional.


Offline lowpoly

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 10:51:13 »
I think about ditching the additional supply for the usb hub. To avoid confusion and a power supply.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Manyak

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 11:46:26 »
Quote from: lowpoly;98820
I think about ditching the additional supply for the usb hub. To avoid confusion and a power supply.


You can just split the keyboard's USB connector and connect it to several ports at once. Or solder the connection inside the PC itself directly to the PSU's 5V line.
Currently Owned:
Filco FKBN104MC/EB - Model M 1390131 \'86 - Model M 1391401 NIB - Unicomp Endurapro NIB - iRocks KR-6230 - Compaq MX-11800 - Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Cherry ML-4100 - Cherry MY-8000-something - Dell AT101W (Black) - ABS M1 - Siig Minitouch - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys NIB - Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 - Deck Legend

Offline lowpoly

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 11:53:57 »
Quote from: Manyak;98832
You can just split the keyboard's USB connector and connect it to several ports at once. Or solder the connection inside the PC itself directly to the PSU's 5V line.
So an add-on with a USB receptacle and two or three plugs would do. Something like that should exist somewhere in China.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline lowpoly

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 11:56:10 »

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Manyak

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 11:57:18 »
Quote from: lowpoly;98834
So an add-on with a USB receptacle and two or three plugs would do. Something like that should exist somewhere in China.


It's actually really easy to make one yourself. Just pick up two or three USB extension cords, then connect the red and black wires (power wires) together on all of them, and leave the green and white wires (data wires) connected to only one port.
Currently Owned:
Filco FKBN104MC/EB - Model M 1390131 \'86 - Model M 1391401 NIB - Unicomp Endurapro NIB - iRocks KR-6230 - Compaq MX-11800 - Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Cherry ML-4100 - Cherry MY-8000-something - Dell AT101W (Black) - ABS M1 - Siig Minitouch - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys NIB - Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 - Deck Legend

Offline huha

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 12:00:27 »
Quote from: lowpoly;98837
Here it is as a hub:

http://gizmodo.com/383515/brando-3+way-usb-hub-doesnt-need-power-brick

Good tip, Manyak, thanks.


I'd rather have an optional (read: Not included) power supply when I need the hub to be powered than an incredibly ugly and non-spec (!) two-plug USB cable.

-huha
Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline Manyak

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 13:32:41 »
Quote from: huha;98840
I'd rather have an optional (read: Not included) power supply when I need the hub to be powered than an incredibly ugly and non-spec (!) two-plug USB cable.

-huha


There's actually an even better way to do it - disconnect the USB plugs on the motherboard and connect pins 1 and 4 (the outside pins) directly to the PSU's 5V (red) and Gnd (black) lines. But of course the front USB ports are the easiest to do it with since they actually have cables you can splice.

Screw the specs though, the main reason USB ports are limited to that amount of power is because if you've got a cheap-o PSU that has a lot of noise on it's 5V line (like that bestec crap in almost all pre-built systems), too much current on the USB PCB traces will introduce that same noise into other lines on the motherboard. Interference within the cable itself won't make much of a difference unless the noise is really bad or the cable is way too long. So bypassing the motherboard or splitting the power draw among several ports gets rid of this problem, and actual cable interference and heat becomes a problem a lot later (in comparison).
Currently Owned:
Filco FKBN104MC/EB - Model M 1390131 \'86 - Model M 1391401 NIB - Unicomp Endurapro NIB - iRocks KR-6230 - Compaq MX-11800 - Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Cherry ML-4100 - Cherry MY-8000-something - Dell AT101W (Black) - ABS M1 - Siig Minitouch - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys NIB - Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 - Deck Legend

Offline huha

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 13:41:38 »
Quote from: Manyak;98878
There's actually an even better way to do it - disconnect the USB plugs on the motherboard and connect pins 1 and 4 (the outside pins) directly to the PSU's 5V (red) and Gnd (black) lines.


No, that's just as bad. USB is spec'd to provide 500 mA of current. USB does include power management to manage and restrict power draw to devices, but because people are incredibly lazy, not many devices really use power management and just draw power from USB nonetheless. This seriously messes up every power management aspect; there shouldn't be just power on the US bus for you to use; a decent USB device uses little power for startup and then requests more power, which it will then be allowed to draw depending on the current state of connected devices. Just using Y-Plugs totally counteracts these measures, as noone knows how much power is taken from where, so decent power management becomes absolutely impossible.
This leads to lots of stupid situations where devices connected to the US bus stay on even when the computer goes into standby; USB can, by specification, signal the devices to go into standby, but since many of them don't use power management, they won't.
The only problem of the USB spec is 500 mA isn't exactly much. 1 A would solve many problems, but just doing stupid non-spec'd things will only make the situation worse.

Therefore, having a bus-powered hub with a socket for a small power supply (doesn't need to be included, just write the plug's polarity and voltage on it and you're done) is the best option.

Quote
Screw the specs though, the main reason USB ports are limited to that amount of power is because if you've got a cheap-o PSU that has a lot of noise on it's 5V line (like that bestec crap in almost all pre-built systems), too much current on the USB PCB traces will introduce that same noise into other lines on the motherboard. Interference within the cable itself won't make much of a difference unless the noise is really bad or the cable is way too long. So bypassing the motherboard or splitting the power draw among several ports gets rid of this problem, and actual cable interference and heat becomes a problem a lot later (in comparison).


The main reason the power is limited is because no one would have thought people would start connecting their hard disks to the US bus. They should have remedied that with specification 2.0, but since they wanted to stay backward and forward compatible, this wasn't really an option (they could have introduced a mode for drawing 1 A, though).

-huha
Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 13:43:07 »
Wow, talk about a thread derail.
 
Carry on.  This is much more interesting.


Offline lowpoly

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 13:48:52 »
Good explanation, huha.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline talis

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 13:59:29 »
Quote from: huha;98885


The main reason the power is limited is because no one would have thought people would start connecting their hard disks to the US bus. They should have remedied that with specification 2.0, but since they wanted to stay backward and forward compatible, this wasn't really an option (they could have introduced a mode for drawing 1 A, though).

-huha


They are finally taking some steps to remedy this in the V3.0 specs.  As far as I have read, 3.0 allows for negotiation of up to 6 units @ 150mA a unit, for a max of 900mA (vs the 500mA max of the earlier specs).

Offline Repoman

  • Posts: 77
OCZ Sabre
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 14:15:06 »
Instead of using a cable terminating in dual USB interfaces, would it be possible to make a cable with one USB plug plus some kind of receptacle for the PSU, resulting in one neat connection on the back of the keyboard?

Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
OCZ Sabre
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 14:24:09 »
why OLED? What's with everyone putting screens on their keys? STOP IT!
KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps


SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline Manyak

  • Posts: 295
OCZ Sabre
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 14:26:09 »
Quote from: huha;98885
No, that's just as bad. USB is spec'd to provide 500 mA of current. USB does include power management to manage and restrict power draw to devices, but because people are incredibly lazy, not many devices really use power management and just draw power from USB nonetheless. This seriously messes up every power management aspect; there shouldn't be just power on the US bus for you to use; a decent USB device uses little power for startup and then requests more power, which it will then be allowed to draw depending on the current state of connected devices. Just using Y-Plugs totally counteracts these measures, as noone knows how much power is taken from where, so decent power management becomes absolutely impossible.
This leads to lots of stupid situations where devices connected to the US bus stay on even when the computer goes into standby; USB can, by specification, signal the devices to go into standby, but since many of them don't use power management, they won't.
The only problem of the USB spec is 500 mA isn't exactly much. 1 A would solve many problems, but just doing stupid non-spec'd things will only make the situation worse.

Therefore, having a bus-powered hub with a socket for a small power supply (doesn't need to be included, just write the plug's polarity and voltage on it and you're done) is the best option.


The main reason the power is limited is because no one would have thought people would start connecting their hard disks to the US bus. They should have remedied that with specification 2.0, but since they wanted to stay backward and forward compatible, this wasn't really an option (they could have introduced a mode for drawing 1 A, though).

-huha



That's the whole problem, 500mA does crap - and it's even less in practice because some power is lost from wire resistance. But power management is the least of your worries. The whole reason it was limited to 500mA to begin with is because of the interference between PCB traces. Eliminating interference (noise induction, crosstalk, whatever you want to call it) would require those power line traces to be done as microstrips or striplines, which is a lot more expensive, especially back when USB was first introduced.

The power management you're talking about, the gauge of USB cables, and everything else was spec'd the way it is because they wanted to keep motherboard integration as easy and cheap as possible.


And if you're completely bypassing the motherboard and running directly on the PSU, there's no more reason to worry about power management because:

(a) you'll have all the power you could need on that port so there's no real reason to save any power for other devices
and
(b) when you turn the PC off or put it to sleep the 5V line goes cold, which turns off any devices connected to that port anyway

So it's perfectly fine, and even preferable, to hook your USB ports up directly to the PSU.
Currently Owned:
Filco FKBN104MC/EB - Model M 1390131 \'86 - Model M 1391401 NIB - Unicomp Endurapro NIB - iRocks KR-6230 - Compaq MX-11800 - Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Cherry ML-4100 - Cherry MY-8000-something - Dell AT101W (Black) - ABS M1 - Siig Minitouch - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys NIB - Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 - Deck Legend

Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 15:15:21 »
Quote from: watduzhkstand4;98909
why OLED? What's with everyone putting screens on their keys? STOP IT!

I'm not completely opposed to this, but in the case of the OCZ, it's pretty half-ass. They screens are monochrome, and I am 99% sure they are using rubber domes. At least Art Lebedev went all out with theirs and included Cherry ML switches.  Even though they aren't the greatest switches, IMO, at least they are much higher quality than rubber domes.  Any keyboard that costs over $100 should have better switches than domes.


Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 15:31:13 »
Quote from: ripster;98942
$999 (or whatever) all out.

I think that's the base model.  The all-out model is $1500.


Offline itlnstln

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 24 June 2009, 15:42:22 »
Quote from: ripster;98951
SOLD!
 
Actually my first reaction was - Monochrome - now that's smart. When I did Flight Sims I couldn't remember one key from another. Lessee - is G gear or L for landing??

Some of those old (and even new) flight sims were far too complicated for me.  They would have these 400 page manuals and impossible keymappings.   Way too steep of a learning curve, if you ask me.


Offline Johnny R.

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OCZ Sabre
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 25 June 2009, 01:50:46 »
Hehe, seems like somone bought the stock from United Keys and tries to sell it as a "gaming" product now :)

http://www.unitedkeys.com is still selling it for it's old MSRP of 259.99, though I don't think that it's any different from the one that OCZ just introduced.

What makes it 'Gaming' now I can't really see, but that is for OCZ to figure out.

Here is the old engadget hands-on from last year for anyone that's interested.

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
OCZ Sabre
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 25 June 2009, 14:24:52 »
Looks like a gimmick, pure and simple.  And it's too damn wide.  The side-lighting actually isn't so bad, if you consider that light shining from the right edge would help illuminate your mousing area in dim lighting.

When I first saw the Lebedev keyboard I initially thought it was a great idea, but then I considered that any user, once they become familiar with a piece of software, doesn't need to look at the keys when using short-cuts - your fingers know where they are, much like touch-typing, thanks to proprioception.  This makes the actual look of the key a moot point.

I suppose it would be most useful for gamers and those who frequently change layouts.  As for the OCZ Sabre with only nine customisable keys, I think there are very few who'd find it useful.