Author Topic: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?  (Read 13309 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 11:50:58 »
Kailh switches are just horrible compared to cherry switches.

I read that actuation and reset point are more distant.

They have a weird "springing" sound randomly like was it jumping in a bed.

They are heavier, you canīt even get 45g red swithces.

They are very bad to press in the edges, there is actually internal friction within the switch.

Does anyone know where you can buy a keycool 84 without these ridiciously bad switches?

Would I be able to replace kailh switches with cherry mx red, if yes, any recommend guide?

Thank you.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 October 2014, 11:55:49 by Naweo »

Offline yasuo

  • Posts: 978
  • Location: ID
  • spanengan puyeng newbie
Re: Kailh switches are incredibly bad.
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 11:56:50 »
quite contrast with cptbadass review i think its old kailh but idk, may amazon
Logitech MK220 Colemak DH
SplitSyml by Moz BlacksMx fuk blacks

2/3 8.5pm                                          in de la my september month ya da all get my fukka "fake message"

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6289
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:02:38 »
Does anyone know where you can buy a keycool 84 without these ridiciously bad switches?

Would I be able to replace kailh switches with cherry mx red, if yes, any recommend guide?

Thank you.
Just buy a more expensive keyboard than a keycool 84. If you want to cheap out, then you can't afford to be picky about switches.

I believe you can replace them with cherry switches.

If you are dead-set on the keycool brand, a used, or NOS older keycool could have cherry switches.

Offline IvanIvanovich

  • Mr. Silk Underwear
  • Posts: 8199
  • Location: USA
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:20:10 »
The clones (Kailh, Gaote, etc) all seem to use the same pin spacing as Cherry MX so swapping the switch would involve the usual method of desolder, solder.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6289
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:26:42 »
The clones (Kailh, Gaote, etc) all seem to use the same pin spacing as Cherry MX so swapping the switch would involve the usual method of desolder, solder.
Thanks for the confirmation.

The only clones I have on hand are the really old "aristotle" ones, and they have the same pin spacing / pcb footprint as well.

It's really fortunate that all the clones seem to have decided to keep the same measurements as the original: it makes it a lot easier to replace them.

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:30:16 »
Does anyone know where you can buy a keycool 84 without these ridiciously bad switches?

Would I be able to replace kailh switches with cherry mx red, if yes, any recommend guide?

Thank you.
Just buy a more expensive keyboard than a keycool 84. If you want to cheap out, then you can't afford to be picky about switches.

I believe you can replace them with cherry switches.

If you are dead-set on the keycool brand, a used, or NOS older keycool could have cherry switches.

A 1000 dollar keyboard would be an easy buy for me if keyboard companies were just 10% ahead on the road of competent keyboard development from which, unfortuantely, they are not.

The keycool design is an absolute must and is the sole reason why I have to purchase and use this over anything else.

And no, the noppoo is not up there.

Offline notsonerd

  • Here for the secrets
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: United States
  • Light My Fire
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:38:26 »
Does anyone know where you can buy a keycool 84 without these ridiciously bad switches?

Would I be able to replace kailh switches with cherry mx red, if yes, any recommend guide?

Thank you.
Just buy a more expensive keyboard than a keycool 84. If you want to cheap out, then you can't afford to be picky about switches.

I believe you can replace them with cherry switches.

If you are dead-set on the keycool brand, a used, or NOS older keycool could have cherry switches.

A 1000 dollar keyboard would be an easy buy for me if keyboard companies were just 10% ahead on the road of competent keyboard development from which, unfortuantely, they are not.

The keycool design is an absolute must and is the sole reason why I have to purchase and use this over anything else.

And no, the noppoo is not up there.

What makes Keycool's build quality so much better to you than other keyboards?

If you're not limited to a hundred dollars for a keyboard, then why bother with Keycool? Get a Topre or HHKB. If you really want sturdy, then get a custom-built one. You won't spend even close to a thousand dollars for a high-end board.
KBParadise V60 with Cherry MX Browns | Corsair K60 with Cherry MX Reds

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:46:25 »
Well the problem with kailh switches and cherry switch in terms of build quality is just, and this is even without the act of mathemathical or scientific deduction in use, that theres a variety of friction to each key, not to mention itīs 50g over 45g which is obviously bad since the lower is the mathemathical, sensical and scientifically better. Yes, high-pressure keys can boost release and some people suggest they type worse on tactile or whatever, but if you want objectivity this is the truth and also happens to be what i prefer.

I donīt necessarily prefer build quality like that, but as long as it provides the functionality I require itīs good. It doesnt have to be an extremely expensive keyboard made of expensive plastic of materials, but just build to not be random and bad.

The problem with topre, though the 35g topre keys are promising and considered but everywhere I go the best you can get is 45g topre which does not beat 45g red switches in my world, is that there is not any compact topre keyboards. I canīt emphasize how extremely retarded it is by normal keyboard companies, at least in the gaming world, to keep keys as spread out as they are. Please keep function keys close to hand reach etc etc etc

this is why the keycool 84 layout, so far, beats anything else.

Offline notsonerd

  • Here for the secrets
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: United States
  • Light My Fire
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 12:55:10 »
Well the problem with kailh switches and cherry switch in terms of build quality is just, and this is even without the act of mathemathical or scientific deduction in use, that theres a variety of friction to each key, not to mention itīs 50g over 45g which is obviously bad since the lower is the mathemathical, sensical and scientifically better. Yes, high-pressure keys can boost release and some people suggest they type worse on tactile or whatever, but if you want objectivity this is the truth and also happens to be what i prefer.

I donīt necessarily prefer build quality like that, but as long as it provides the functionality I require itīs good. It doesnt have to be an extremely expensive keyboard made of expensive plastic of materials, but just build to not be random and bad.

The problem with topre, though the 35g topre keys are promising and considered but everywhere I go the best you can get is 45g topre which does not beat 45g red switches in my world, is that there is not any compact topre keyboards. I canīt emphasize how extremely retarded it is by normal keyboard companies, at least in the gaming world, to keep keys as spread out as they are. Please keep function keys close to hand reach etc etc etc

this is why the keycool 84 layout, so far, beats anything else.

If "lower is better" from a scientific, sensible*, and mathematical standpoint, then wouldn't 35g Topre that you mentioned be--objectively--ideal? You mixed a lot of long "fancy" words to make your opinion seem more real when--in reality--it was just your opinion.

You're entitled to your preferences, but stating a "truth" with no actual sources or references to prove that you're not just pulling these "facts" out of your ass is plain stupid. That's "your world."

Back to the main topic, if functionality is all that you require then what reason do you have to rule out the Noppoo Mini? The layout is essentially as "functional" as the Keycool 84.
KBParadise V60 with Cherry MX Browns | Corsair K60 with Cherry MX Reds

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 13:13:11 »
Well the problem with kailh switches and cherry switch in terms of build quality is just, and this is even without the act of mathemathical or scientific deduction in use, that theres a variety of friction to each key, not to mention itīs 50g over 45g which is obviously bad since the lower is the mathemathical, sensical and scientifically better. Yes, high-pressure keys can boost release and some people suggest they type worse on tactile or whatever, but if you want objectivity this is the truth and also happens to be what i prefer.

I donīt necessarily prefer build quality like that, but as long as it provides the functionality I require itīs good. It doesnt have to be an extremely expensive keyboard made of expensive plastic of materials, but just build to not be random and bad.

The problem with topre, though the 35g topre keys are promising and considered but everywhere I go the best you can get is 45g topre which does not beat 45g red switches in my world, is that there is not any compact topre keyboards. I canīt emphasize how extremely retarded it is by normal keyboard companies, at least in the gaming world, to keep keys as spread out as they are. Please keep function keys close to hand reach etc etc etc

this is why the keycool 84 layout, so far, beats anything else.

If "lower is better" from a scientific, sensible*, and mathematical standpoint, then wouldn't 35g Topre that you mentioned be--objectively--ideal? You mixed a lot of long "fancy" words to make your opinion seem more real when--in reality--it was just your opinion.

You're entitled to your preferences, but stating a "truth" with no actual sources or references to prove that you're not just pulling these "facts" out of your ass is plain stupid. That's "your world."

Back to the main topic, if functionality is all that you require then what reason do you have to rule out the Noppoo Mini? The layout is essentially as "functional" as the Keycool 84.

I donīt bother projecting myself into the facade of this world. Most people would rather wear a fancy business suit for their business than doing their business legitimately in a pyjamas. This is basically the same principle you follow through your expressions on this forum.

Since 2+2 is not obvious, this is some proof:

1. Keyboard layout is more important than force

- This is due to the fact that there is a noticable - but not crucial - difference between 45, 50, 55 and 60g keys. If function keys which, from my area of keyboard use, are used all the time, are not placed exactly or as close to regular keys as possible, you will have a huge disadvantage due to the fact that 10% of your hand executions requires a palm-liftoff which is extremely exhausting and inefficient.

Trust me, when I say that as-compact-as-possible is the number one priority itīs scientifically true.

2. The noppoo choc mini is very similar, obviously in keyswitch functionality, to the keycool, but they big spring for spacebar, shift, enter etc. are pretty unsturdy, and my subjective opinion suggests that the keycool is what I prefer, not to mention that itīs easier to replace keycaps without risks of killing the stabilizers like I did once with my noppoo, and that was with careful surgical precision.

This means, as mentioned before, that I am willing to use noppoo but Iīd prefer keycool any time, which is what Im directing my topic towards and not why I donīt want to use anything else. The differences between noppoo and keycool is probably 5%, and differences between kailh and keycool is maybe 15-20% from subjective and objective estimates, neither is really a big deal for ordinary use, but I know what I am doing and I just ask for what I ask for.

3. Objectively, keycool has nailed the best possible keyboard layout. Period. It is indeniable that the most compact keyboard possible without spaces is the best possible, and with slightly better build quality due to protective PCB cover and stabilizer cover, it beats the noppoo as well in my opinion.



Offline notsonerd

  • Here for the secrets
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: United States
  • Light My Fire
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 13:31:21 »
I donīt bother projecting myself into the facade of this world. Most people would rather wear a fancy business suit for their business than doing their business legitimately in a pyjamas. This is basically the same principle you follow through your expressions on this forum.

Since 2+2 is not obvious, this is some proof:

1. Keyboard layout is more important than force

- This is due to the fact that there is a noticable - but not crucial - difference between 45, 50, 55 and 60g keys. If function keys which, from my area of keyboard use, are used all the time, are not placed exactly or as close to regular keys as possible, you will have a huge disadvantage due to the fact that 10% of your hand executions requires a palm-liftoff which is extremely exhausting and inefficient.

Trust me, when I say that as-compact-as-possible is the number one priority itīs scientifically true.

2. The noppoo choc mini is very similar, obviously in keyswitch functionality, to the keycool, but they big spring for spacebar, shift, enter etc. are pretty unsturdy, and my subjective opinion suggests that the keycool is what I prefer, not to mention that itīs easier to replace keycaps without risks of killing the stabilizers like I did once with my noppoo, and that was with careful surgical precision.

This means, as mentioned before, that I am willing to use noppoo but Iīd prefer keycool any time, which is what Im directing my topic towards and not why I donīt want to use anything else. The differences between noppoo and keycool is probably 5%, and differences between kailh and keycool is maybe 15-20% from subjective and objective estimates, neither is really a big deal for ordinary use, but I know what I am doing and I just ask for what I ask for.

3. Objectively, keycool has nailed the best possible keyboard layout. Period. It is indeniable that the most compact keyboard possible without spaces is the best possible, and with slightly better build quality due to protective PCB cover and stabilizer cover, it beats the noppoo as well in my opinion.

I'm being trolled by elementary addition and fictional percentages...

We're not conducting business here; we're talking about keyboards and ergonomics. You're basically saying you're a hipster over the internet where you can be pretty much whatever you want to be. The only facade here is the "scientific" truth you keep stating alongside nonsensical numbers.

If "as-compact-as-possible" is the number one priority, then a 60% board beats the Keycool 84 since the "palm-liftoff" from the home-row to the number row is even shorter than that of the function row dedicated to the Keycool 84 and Noppoo Mini.

Purely based on what you're spouting, this would be considered scientific truth.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 October 2014, 13:34:54 by notsonerd »
KBParadise V60 with Cherry MX Browns | Corsair K60 with Cherry MX Reds

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 14:14:19 »
I donīt bother projecting myself into the facade of this world. Most people would rather wear a fancy business suit for their business than doing their business legitimately in a pyjamas. This is basically the same principle you follow through your expressions on this forum.

Since 2+2 is not obvious, this is some proof:

1. Keyboard layout is more important than force

- This is due to the fact that there is a noticable - but not crucial - difference between 45, 50, 55 and 60g keys. If function keys which, from my area of keyboard use, are used all the time, are not placed exactly or as close to regular keys as possible, you will have a huge disadvantage due to the fact that 10% of your hand executions requires a palm-liftoff which is extremely exhausting and inefficient.

Trust me, when I say that as-compact-as-possible is the number one priority itīs scientifically true.

2. The noppoo choc mini is very similar, obviously in keyswitch functionality, to the keycool, but they big spring for spacebar, shift, enter etc. are pretty unsturdy, and my subjective opinion suggests that the keycool is what I prefer, not to mention that itīs easier to replace keycaps without risks of killing the stabilizers like I did once with my noppoo, and that was with careful surgical precision.

This means, as mentioned before, that I am willing to use noppoo but Iīd prefer keycool any time, which is what Im directing my topic towards and not why I donīt want to use anything else. The differences between noppoo and keycool is probably 5%, and differences between kailh and keycool is maybe 15-20% from subjective and objective estimates, neither is really a big deal for ordinary use, but I know what I am doing and I just ask for what I ask for.

3. Objectively, keycool has nailed the best possible keyboard layout. Period. It is indeniable that the most compact keyboard possible without spaces is the best possible, and with slightly better build quality due to protective PCB cover and stabilizer cover, it beats the noppoo as well in my opinion.

I'm being trolled by elementary addition and fictional percentages...

We're not conducting business here; we're talking about keyboards and ergonomics. You're basically saying you're a hipster over the internet where you can be pretty much whatever you want to be. The only facade here is the "scientific" truth you keep stating alongside nonsensical numbers.

If "as-compact-as-possible" is the number one priority, then a 60% board beats the Keycool 84 since the "palm-liftoff" from the home-row to the number row is even shorter than that of the function row dedicated to the Keycool 84 and Noppoo Mini.

Purely based on what you're spouting, this would be considered scientific truth.

Scientific evidence does not have to be precise when there is no scientific or rational evidence that backs the counterpart, that you by the way is not speaking of. All you are doing is playing a plausible deniabilty card to the arguments I am making (Which you want me to in the previous post). A somewhat argument "If "as-compact-as-possible" is the number one priority, then a 60% board beats the Keycool 84 since the "palm-liftoff" from the home-row to the number row is even shorter than that of the function row dedicated to the Keycool 84 and Noppoo Mini. " was presented but was again intended to be offensive and thus ignores the elephant in the room. Obviously it is retarded to suggest to use a 60% keyboard when I just mentioned how the functionality of extra keys provide better keystroke efficiency. Shift+1-12 is already in use alongside f1-f12 keys. If keyobard manufacturers took themselves seriously, they would add another layer of keys above the f1-f12 keys (maybe esc to this row) and at least 2 colums to the left side of shift+control etc (these can be considered macro keys but for all i care they should just be remappable keys, like cloning existing keys.) Multimedia keys can be useful but for my area of use thatīs not the thing. I could elaborate this but I donīt bother when I know I am right and what I ask for.

Since you havenīt even given a thought about what it is I am using this for, you canīt really help making statements about my problems that are false.

As to my business note, what I was saying more lightly is that you care more about constructing your fancy sentences, commas, dots and proper pronouncuation plus typos rather than thinking about what I am actually saying, thus my comment about rather wearing and expensive suit than doing your job properly.

Now, apparently I managed to sound extremely angry partly because of my new discovery of being exceptionally frauded by keyboard companies who are extremely bad at innovation, I might expect to receive less help on the matter but I do not really think there is much to get from here. It is either noppoo or ****ty kaihua switch

Generally on forums I get annoyed by the policeforce disease seeking only to provide somewhat negative/constructive criticism to open a debate and hope/pray they can formulate theirīs in a more aesthetically pleasing way. While Iīm very fine with properly constructed sentences and communication, I hate that they through that type of communication seek to look down on others trying to say "I know better because of this."

This is also why you will deny the truth in the fact that I would claim that the entitled person does not necessarily know best, he only has more experience.       



Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: Ŋ\(°_o)/Ŋ
  • because reasons.......
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 14:21:22 »

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199

Offline notsonerd

  • Here for the secrets
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: United States
  • Light My Fire
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 15:00:51 »
Scientific evidence does not have to be precise when there is no scientific or rational evidence that backs the counterpart, that you by the way is not speaking of. All you are doing is playing a plausible deniabilty card to the arguments I am making (Which you want me to in the previous post). A somewhat argument "If "as-compact-as-possible" is the number one priority, then a 60% board beats the Keycool 84 since the "palm-liftoff" from the home-row to the number row is even shorter than that of the function row dedicated to the Keycool 84 and Noppoo Mini. " was presented but was again intended to be offensive and thus ignores the elephant in the room. Obviously it is retarded to suggest to use a 60% keyboard when I just mentioned how the functionality of extra keys provide better keystroke efficiency. Shift+1-12 is already in use alongside f1-f12 keys. If keyobard manufacturers took themselves seriously, they would add another layer of keys above the f1-f12 keys (maybe esc to this row) and at least 2 colums to the left side of shift+control etc (these can be considered macro keys but for all i care they should just be remappable keys, like cloning existing keys.) Multimedia keys can be useful but for my area of use thatīs not the thing. I could elaborate this but I donīt bother when I know I am right and what I ask for.

Since you havenīt even given a thought about what it is I am using this for, you canīt really help making statements about my problems that are false.

As to my business note, what I was saying more lightly is that you care more about constructing your fancy sentences, commas, dots and proper pronouncuation plus typos rather than thinking about what I am actually saying, thus my comment about rather wearing and expensive suit than doing your job properly.

Now, apparently I managed to sound extremely angry partly because of my new discovery of being exceptionally frauded by keyboard companies who are extremely bad at innovation, I might expect to receive less help on the matter but I do not really think there is much to get from here. It is either noppoo or ****ty kaihua switch

Generally on forums I get annoyed by the policeforce disease seeking only to provide somewhat negative/constructive criticism to open a debate and hope/pray they can formulate theirīs in a more aesthetically pleasing way. While Iīm very fine with properly constructed sentences and communication, I hate that they through that type of communication seek to look down on others trying to say "I know better because of this."

This is also why you will deny the truth in the fact that I would claim that the entitled person does not necessarily know best, he only has more experience.     

If the layout of the Keycool 84 is the only keyboard layout that suits your needs best, then by all means please state the circumstances in which you use your keyboard because I am, in fact, curious.

My argument was simple: if less is better, then yada-ya. I simply took your argument's logic and used it. I never claimed anything scientific about the things I stated.

Regarding scientific evidence, you've still not provided any real sources to back your statements--just made-up numbers.

Just to be clear, what's grinding my gears is the fact that you're making high claims and claiming them to be objective while saying they're your opinion. You have to understand that while your opinion may have great points, it's not objective--it's completely subjective.

The 60% layout is meant to be ergonomic as well as efficient. To say that manufacturers that delve into this design aren't taking themselves seriously is purely your opinion.



Now onto the way I choose to speak through text. I see we agree that proper grammar and spelling is aesthetically more pleasing to look at. Great. So please point out wherever I may have stated or insinuated that I know better than you because of something I never said.

I can't deny you have more experience and may even know better since I only have roughly a month of personal experience with mechanical keyboards. Yet this is precisely why I know for a fact that I haven't made any statements that may lead readers to think that I know better than you or anyone else here. I don't have as much knowledge or experience as most of the users here on this forum; that's why the only evidence I'm using is from your posts.

The only real point I've been trying to make is that your end-all statements are out-of-line and have no basis whatsoever but your personal preferences. Again, you're entitled to your own opinion, but know that your opinion is just that--not a universal truth. Whether or not I choose to type all fancy with commas and semicolons doesn't change that.
KBParadise V60 with Cherry MX Browns | Corsair K60 with Cherry MX Reds

Offline notsonerd

  • Here for the secrets
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: United States
  • Light My Fire
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 15:36:09 »
I was curious so I went ahead and did some investigating to figure out why you prefer the Keycool 84 layout so much. I now understand why.

You're a professional StarCraft 2 player, or at the very least you play the game a lot. With that, it's understandable why you'd need a dedicated function row, thus making my 60% board suggestion "retarded" as you so lovingly put it.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I came off as making attacks at your preferences. While there are still some disagreements, I did not mean to be hostile towards you and I hope this discussion didn't ruin your day.

I studied the Keycool 84 layout intently and I have to say that I like it a lot. Seeing it makes me want to get one of my own since I play games that could greatly benefit from having a dedicated function row that close to the rest of the keys. It is a shame though that the majority of Keycool's boards only come with Kailh switches.
KBParadise V60 with Cherry MX Browns | Corsair K60 with Cherry MX Reds

Offline Melvang

  • Exquisite Lord of Bumfluff
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4407
  • Location: Waterloo, IA
  • Melvang's Desktop Customs
Re: Can you replace kailh switches with cherry?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 16:46:40 »
If speed to the switches is the ultimate goal than, what would be the issue with using a Naga, or Logitech version and map the keys on the side to F1-F12? 

Would this not be allowed because of league rules or something to that effect?

I don't play StarCraft 2 but I do play other MMOs and have played a few other rpgs in the past but nothing anywhere close to a competitive level.

Though if speed to actuation point is the ultimate goal, but they don't have the switch weight you like, keep the stock switches and just swap out the stems as they have an actuation point 0.5mm higher than Cherry.  Could be something else but it was in that realm.

But realize this, the switch will not make you a better gamer
  If distance to actuation made that much of a difference than everyone at the professional level would be using chiclet keys.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich