Which HHKB?

[nukec]

Hi I am going to buy my first HHKB!

I am going to buy from japan amazon, but I don't know which one should I get.

I prioritize HHKB Professional JP black edition or HHKB Pro JP Type-S white.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/PFU-Keyboard-Professional-N%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC-PD-KB420B/dp/B001KWJTD6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415314629&sr=8-2&keywords=hhkb+professional+jp+type-s

http://www.amazon.co.jp/PFU-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional-%E7%99%BD%EF%BC%88%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9E%E9%85%8D%E5%88%97%EF%BC%89/dp/B008GXUDBO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415314629&sr=8-1&keywords=hhkb+professional+jp+type-s

Which one should I get?

Currently I own KBParadise V60 brown and PokerII Blue. Am I going to feel huge difference cherry vs topre?

[Flyersfan1]

I don't really think anyone can make that decision for you, it really just comes down to which color you prefer.  Personally, I've always liked the Black HHKB's for their more sleek look.  The white is very nice too if you'd like something a little more classic looking though.  I'm sure whichever you choose, you'll really end up liking!  Keep in mind, whistlegate is ongoing with some of the newer type-s models, I'd make sure that isn't something that might bother you if you decide on choosing that one.

[demik]

honestly? get the cheapest one. i think the whole silent thing is blown way out of proportion. worst comes to worst you dont like it and it will be easier to sell.

but people swear by silent even though i really cant justify the mark up (ive used both side by side though the type s not for a long time) unless you get it used, then well take advantage of it and get the most expensive model.

[iAmAhab]

Why not get the non jap one? Half the pleasure with the HHKB is that sweet sweet layout.

[Puddsy]

JP one is grail

do it

[Schwarz]

Yes, you will feel a huge difference compared to cherry mx. Whether you prefer it is up to you. Give it some time though, most people (me included) feel underwhelmed with topre at first.

[IIhands]

Hello everyone,

So I was curious on the JP version as well, as I am looking to purchase a topre board and was in between a RF 87u EK (eta december 2014) or a HHKB 2. My issue with the RF is the wait, my issue with the HHKB is I would prefer the JP version, so my predicament comes down to purchasing one either in the US or getting some assistance in the purchase process from amazon.co.jp

Can OP or anybody with knowledge provide me with some guidance?

And to the OP, go for the JP silent (my suggestion literally carries no weight, but that JP layout is sooo sexy)

[Flyersfan1]

JP one is grail

do it

They're both JP.

[Puddsy]

JP one is grail

do it

They're both JP.

then he's already on the right track

[Matter]

I switched over to topre from MX Reds and I really love it so much that I am currently using it as my daily driver now without any regrets or remotely wanting to switch back to the reds even though that was previously my favorite switch.

It give a much more fulfilling experience when typing on a quality board like the HHKB.

However I have not tried typing on the Typre-S so I am unable to comment on the difference but the original HHKB is so silent I have no idea why anyone will want to pay that much more for the Typre-S.
Moreover, no black Type-S?!!!!!!!!

[nubbinator]

honestly? get the cheapest one. i think the whole silent thing is blown way out of proportion. worst comes to worst you dont like it and it will be easier to sell.

but people swear by silent even though i really cant justify the mark up (ive used both side by side though the type s not for a long time) unless you get it used, then well take advantage of it and get the most expensive model.

Silent felt tighter and smoother to me.  Not $100 better, but it was better. 


If money is cheap to you, get the more expensive one.  If you scrimp and save, get the cheaper one.  You'll be happy with either.

[exitfire401]

I'll never constitute the $100 difference. I only bought a type-S because I had money to burn. You can silence for about $20 yourself and it's not a hard project at all (I highly recommend the O2dazone mod).

[Flyersfan1]

The type-s isn't really $100 more any longer unless you are buying directly from EK.  If he's buying from Japan, I believe it's around ~258, so he'd likely be able to get it for under $300 after proxy commission/shipping.

[Sygaldry]

I got my Type-S last week for $320 shipped from Japan (2-3 day shipping expedited).
It would have cost much less if I had been patient enough to wait the extra 5 days for regular shipping or through a forwarding service but I had money to spend and needed a keyboard because programming and writing legal memorandums on my rMBP keyboard was unbearable - it is what it is.

The regular model through EK is around 250 shipped with the current sale going on (this is before sales tax if applicable). This would be a damn good deal for the keyboard until you take into account the fact that the Japanese Yen has fallen quite a bit in recent weeks.

This means you can definitely get the Type-S through Amazon.co.jp and have Tenso (or some other forwarding company) forward it to you for less than 300 total.

40-50 dollars more for Type-S? My answer is yes, everyday.

And yes, I have tried the dental band mod on non-silenced Topres and they feel like crap compared to the Type-S (they still feel good but the Type-S is just so much better and still quieter).

Here my take on it:
Those that think the Type-S isn't worth the premium over the regular model either own a non-Type-S and are at least somewhat defensive over their decision to not get the Type-S, or they paid  100 dollars more for a Type-S which even I will admit is overly exorbitant.
It is no longer the case that the Type-S comes at a 100 dollar premium. The ~50 dollar premium, at least in my own opinion, is well worth the cost (plus you get the elitist "Type-S" logo on the board  )

Also, if you don't like the color, just Plasti Dip or slap some 3M vinyl wrap on it (this is what I will be doing in the winter when I have more free time). This way you'll have a greater variety of color choices if you so desire and have a layer of protection on top of the keyboard.

Whistlegate is blown out of proportion in my opinion. My brand new Type-S is whistle free except for the Delete key and most people who have received a whistling Type-S have reported that it goes away after a couple of months or after applying lube to the sliders.

I would also mention that half of the selling point of the HHKB is the layout. Everyone mentions the Control placement as the determinative factor in getting an HHKB but I will say that I am equally happy with the BS/Delete key placement (I never leave the home row any more). The HHKB JP has a tiny ass Delete key in the upper right hand corner so you will still have to move away from the home row unless you have gigantic pinkies.

In the end, only you can decide which model is best for you (but note that the Type-S has never been more attractive price-wise).

For me, the HHKB Type-S has been my grail keyboard since getting into this hobby a year and a half ago and I waited until now to finally pull the trigger (I sold off all of my other keyboards to do afford this but it was well worth it in the end). $320 dollars for a grail in any hobby is a reasonable price, I'd say!

(now if only someone would make a PBT spacebar for this and I'll be forever happy)

[rowdy]

Why not get both, and sell the one you like the least?

[Oobly]

Going purely on the boards themselves I'd say get the S. It really is a bit more "premium" than the non-S.

[yasuo]

interisting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RaGXm27QA

[nukec]

This guy says type-s is whistling:

[Oobly]

This guy says type-s is whistling:

A normal HHKB would also whistle if it was built to the same tolerances. A small hole in the case to allow the air to escape when you press a key should sort it out... Leads me again to point out the overpriced and underdesigned nature of these boards (they should have thought of air pressures and sliders making a good seal at the design stage). They need better rubber feet, too.

[Sygaldry]

This guy says type-s is whistling:

A normal HHKB would also whistle if it was built to the same tolerances. A small hole in the case to allow the air to escape when you press a key should sort it out... Leads me again to point out the overpriced and underdesigned nature of these boards (they should have thought of air pressures and sliders making a good seal at the design stage). They need better rubber feet, too.

But like most people have said, the whistling goes away after a while which suggests that whistling concerns are moot. Rubber feet, I will agree, but this is an easy fix: pay 5 dollars for rubber strips to attach to the board, or use shelf liner (I use shelf liner under all my boards anyways, which not only silences the board even more, but it also adds a significant amount of grip)

[Topper]

Regarding the rubber feet: Imo the HHKB has to be seated on top of a soft mouse pad anyway, because when placed on a hard surface, you will feel  an uncomfortable resonance from typing because of it's low weight and the fact that it doesn't have a metal plate.

[eth0s]

Regarding the rubber feet: Imo the HHKB has to be seated on top of a soft mouse pad anyway, because when placed on a hard surface, you will feel  an uncomfortable resonance from typing because of it's low weight and the fact that it doesn't have a metal plate.

^ this is false. 

@OP:  DO NOT buy the JP edition for your first HHKB.  You will not like the tiny space bar and the layout.  You will be missing everything that makes the HHKB so great.  The JP edition is for collectors only.  If you find you love the regular HHKB and the Topre magic, then you can get the JP edition.  Do not get JP first. 

[Sygaldry]

Regarding the rubber feet: Imo the HHKB has to be seated on top of a soft mouse pad anyway, because when placed on a hard surface, you will feel  an uncomfortable resonance from typing because of it's low weight and the fact that it doesn't have a metal plate.

^ this is false. 

@OP:  DO NOT buy the JP edition for your first HHKB.  You will not like the tiny space bar and the layout.  You will be missing everything that makes the HHKB so great.  The JP edition is for collectors only.  If you find you love the regular HHKB and the Topre magic, then you can get the JP edition.  Do not get JP first.

This is the correct response in my opinion

[Hypersphere]

My recommendation is to go for the original HHKB design, as conceived by Prof. Wada. The JP variant deviates from what is arguably the more efficient and intuitive layout. However, if you are Japanese or writing in Japanese, then it makes sense to have the Japanese-specific keys for Kana, etc. And I must say that I am partial to small spacebars.

I am also partial to the black version. I like the black case, but I like to substitute white or blue alphanumeric keys for the black ones, leaving the mods in black.

Regarding silencing, the only think I don't like about my standard HHKB Pro 2 is the "clack" sound of the return stroke. The downstroke "thock" is fine. The Type-S addresses the downstroke clack noise. Just yesterday, I received my HHKB Pro 2 Type-S. It is not perfect, but overall I like it better than the standard version and especially at the current sale price from EK, I think the extra cost is worth it.

It is possible to do various silencing mods, and some people like the results, but I have seen enough negative reports to think that it would be better to go for the Type-S. In addition, the sliders in a Type-S are different from the standard ones, and this cannot be addressed in a DIY mod.

Now, I only wish that my Type-S had a black case. I have heard of people putting Type-Sliders in a black case, but I am not sure about doing this.

On a related note, I also have a RF 87ub 55g. The RF clack is not nearly as noticeable as the HHKB clack, but I think someday I will get a black silenced RF 87ub. The problem here is that the silenced version is available only in a variable weight version. Therefore, if I go this route, I would then transfer the 55g domes from my all-55g board into the silenced board. Transferring domes is relatively straightforward -- much more so than transferring sliders.

[DasHHKBProM]

latter

[Sygaldry]

Now, I only wish that my Type-S had a black case. I have heard of people putting Type-Sliders in a black case, but I am not sure about doing this.

Would be much simpler to just paint, Plasti Dip, or vinyl wrap the Type-S in a matte black/dark gray color.

The only thing you lose is the HHKB labeling but in exchange you get a protective coat on top of the HHKB which should ensure that the board remains in perfect condition for even longer and you can choose what color you want the board to be.

I will be Vinyl wrapping my Type-S and anticipate spending no more than 1 hour doing it.

[Joey Quinn]

I too am thinking of buying an HHKB but I prefer 55g (never owned a topre board just tried a few) is there a 55g version or will I have to find someone to sell me 55g domes?

[Flyersfan1]

I too am thinking of buying an HHKB but I prefer 55g (never owned a topre board just tried a few) is there a 55g version or will I have to find someone to sell me 55g domes?

No 55g version unfortunately 

55g Realforce's pop up a lot in the classifieds though, so if you ever decide to do the mod, you probably wouldn't have to pay full price for a donor board.

[Joey Quinn]

No 55g version unfortunately 

55g Realforce's pop up a lot in the classifieds though, so if you ever decide to do the mod, you probably wouldn't have to pay full price for a donor board.

Damn this endeavor just became much more expensive

[Flyersfan1]

No 55g version unfortunately 

55g Realforce's pop up a lot in the classifieds though, so if you ever decide to do the mod, you probably wouldn't have to pay full price for a donor board.

Damn this endeavor just became much more expensive

Yeah, but thankfully you can recoup some of your investment buy selling off the Realforce with 45g domes from the HHKB you're transplanting.  You won't get back what you put into the project, but at least you'd make a little something back! 

[exitfire401]

No 55g version unfortunately 

55g Realforce's pop up a lot in the classifieds though, so if you ever decide to do the mod, you probably wouldn't have to pay full price for a donor board.

Damn this endeavor just became much more expensive

Just remember how good mine felt at the meetup and remember how it's worth it lol.

[Joey Quinn]

No 55g version unfortunately 

55g Realforce's pop up a lot in the classifieds though, so if you ever decide to do the mod, you probably wouldn't have to pay full price for a donor board.

Damn this endeavor just became much more expensive

Yeah, but thankfully you can recoup some of your investment buy selling off the Realforce with 45g domes from the HHKB you're transplanting.  You won't get back what you put into the project, but at least you'd make a little something back! 

If I can bounce back after all of these GMK sets I may make this my spring/ summer project!   

[swathe]

This is a decision I'm wrestling with a bit myself but still have a couple of months before I'll be pulling the trigger on one so I'm not in a hurry to make a decision.

[deci]

One thing that you should keep in mind that is not obvious is that the bottom row of the JP hhkb does not have standard stagger.
It is actually shifted slightly to the left. This bothers some people a lot, and some people don't notice. You may or may not want to factor this into your decision.

Personally unlike some others on this thread, I hate the normal HHKB layout.
I love everything else about my HHKB, specially since I teensy modded it, but not having dedicated arrow keys is the main thing keeping it from being one of my daily drivers.
Also, I generally like to have a Function/tap-backspace key in the usual capslock position.

I'm going to Japan in Dec so I'll probably pick up a White JP version just for the arrow keys (and sell it on here if I decide not to keep it).
I would get a FC660C if I could figure out

[swathe]

One thing that you should keep in mind that is not obvious is that the bottom row of the JP hhkb does not have standard stagger.
It is actually shifted slightly to the left. This bothers some people a lot, and some people don't notice. You may or may not want to factor this into your decision.

Personally unlike some others on this thread, I hate the normal HHKB layout.
I love everything else about my HHKB, specially since I teensy modded it, but not having dedicated arrow keys is the main thing keeping it from being one of my daily drivers.
Also, I generally like to have a Function/tap-backspace key in the usual capslock position.

I'm going to Japan in Dec so I'll probably pick up a White JP version just for the arrow keys (and sell it on here if I decide not to keep it).
I would get a FC660C if I could figure out

Arrow keys are a thing I'm not sure I could live without. I don't really need them in emacs and vim but when I have to do crap on Windows for work it could be an issue. Might try not using them currently and see how it goes annoyance factor wise.

[deci]

That's a good idea. Try not using them for awhile and only using a them in a function layer and see how it goes.

I do the majority of my programming in Windows so I use them quite a bit.

I guess if I only used 60% boards and layered arrow keys I would probably get used to it, but I love my ergo clear tkl too much to stop using it.

[Topper]

The arrow keys can be learned, you just need to give it some time. I'd say you should be able to adapt to them completely in about a month, provided you use them as regularly as any of the control keys.

I've had my Type-S for about a week now and what gives me more trouble than the arrow keys is the Ctrl key in the Caps Lock position. While I can see how it is more efficient, and I generally like it, I now often type Ctrl instead of Left-Shift, which is very annoying.

Also, having to use the Fn keys in combination with other keys to activate shortcuts is a pain, so if you use any of those, you will probably have to remap.

So drawing my own conclusion I would say that the layout is annoying at the beginning and you will have to go through some frustrating moments in the first few weeks, but once you have adapted you will just fly over the keys.

Another question about whether the HHKB is for you though is you prefer 55g over 45g, but you'll have to try that for yourself anyway. Personally I'd like to see something in between from Topre, like 52g.

[swathe]

As an Emacs user CTRL in the Caps Lock position is actually a blessing for me and many people configure emacs to actually swap those keys so of all things arrows will be the biggest test.

[Grim Fandango]

I like the silent Topre (HHKB and Realforce). They really are super silent. However, you should know that normal Topre is already much more quiet than any Cherry MX. The sound on normal Topre is comparable to normal rubber dome. It is not the same, but not so different that it will stand out or people will mention it. At work, my keyboards produce about as much sound as everyone else's (less actually, since I tap lighter than a lot of my colleagues who sometimes sound like they are typing with their feet).

Personally the only place I need a silent version is in the living room, sitting within 20 feet of my girlfriend.

[Hypersphere]

My new HHKB Pro 2 Type-S arrived two days ago. I haven't done objective measurements, but it is definitely quieter than my standard HHKB Pro 2. However, I am not sure if it is quieter than my standard RF 87ub 55g.

Both the RF 87ub 55g and the HHKB Pro 2 (standard or Type-S) are great keyboards, for different reasons:

HHKB Pro 2: 60% form factor, intuitive/efficient layout, beautiful design (including styling, symmetry, colors), attractive and great-feeling dye-sub PBT keycaps. DIP switches. USB ports. Detachable mini-USB cable. Before getting a HHKB, I thought I would have trouble adjusting to the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys, but I adjusted very quickly, and now I remap my other keyboards to the HHKB layout.

RF 87ub 55g: Standard TKL layout, but I have remapped it (via Karabiner software on my Mac) to a HHKB layout; however, I still have the option of using the built-in F-keys, arrow keys, etc. Beautiful design, dye-sub PBT keycaps. CapsLock and NumLock LEDs, DIP switches, embedded numeric keypad. Sounds and feels more solid than the HHKB; almost as quiet as the Type-S HHKB; great Topre sound and feel with the 55g switches.

I am fairly satisfied using the HHKB Pro 2, HHKB Pro 2 Type-S, or RF 87ub 55g. I also have a RF 87ub 45g (EK Edition) at work, and I like it about as much as my RF 87ub 55g; I slightly prefer the red LEDS on the 45 to the blue LEDs on the 55. The Type-S HHKB key action sounds a bit scratchy; the RF key action sounds and feels smoother, but there is a bit of the upstroke clack.

If I were to make further improvements on these boards, it might be to transfer 55g domes into the Type-S HHKB, or to get a silenced RF (variable) and transfer 45 or 55g domes into it.

[Topper]

What are the cons of the regular HHKB vs the Type-S again? I've had my Type-S for a few weeks now and I love it so much that I've decided to get another one for the office, but I really don't like that the Type-S only comes in white. Under normal light, it's too much on the yellow side for me, so I'm considering the regular HHKB in black but am still unsure. First world problems, I know, but the wonky keys issue doesn't let me sleep.

[Hypersphere]

The normal HHKB Pro 2 has a downstroke "thock" that most people (including me) seem to like. However, when the key springs back to its starting position, there is an upstroke "clack" of plastic hitting plastic that some people dislike. This upstroke "clack" is the main thing that is attenuated in the Type-S version of the keyboard.

After trying both the normal and Type-S HHKB Pro 2, I think that I actually prefer the normal version with respect to the feel of the key action, and I can tolerate the upstroke "clack". I also like the fact that the normal version is available in black -- I have kept the black modifiers, but I have replaced the alphanumeric keys with a white set. The resulting color scheme is much more to my liking than the all-white version.

Likewise, with my RF 87ub 55g, the model with the 55g switches is available only in a standard version. The quiet RF has variable-weighting of its keys, which I do not think I would like. It is possible to swap the 55g domes into a silent RF, but the RF is already considerably quieter than the HHKB and so to me it would not be worth the expense and trouble. In addition, I notice that EK has stopped listing the silient RF keyboards. I don't know if this means that Topre is not making them anymore or if EK decided not to stock them for some other reason. Either way, it looks like it is going to be difficult to get a silent RF without doing a silencing mod on a normal keyboard. In any case, I do not feel a compelling need to silence my RF.

[jwaz]

Regarding the rubber feet: Imo the HHKB has to be seated on top of a soft mouse pad anyway, because when placed on a hard surface, you will feel  an uncomfortable resonance from typing because of it's low weight and the fact that it doesn't have a metal plate.

^ this is false. 

@OP:  DO NOT buy the JP edition for your first HHKB.  You will not like the tiny space bar and the layout.  You will be missing everything that makes the HHKB so great.  The JP edition is for collectors only.  If you find you love the regular HHKB and the Topre magic, then you can get the JP edition.  Do not get JP first. 

I cannot reiterate this enough, this JIS layout mini-keyboard has nothing to do with the original ingenious design of the HHKB.

[Topper]

I see, thanks. If the main difference is only the noise, then that would be no problem for me. Guess I'll give it a shot.

[saturnotaku]

To my ears, dental banded standard HHKB > Type-S > standard HHKB.

[Hypersphere]

I see, thanks. If the main difference is only the noise, then that would be no problem for me. Guess I'll give it a shot.

To me, the Type-S HHKB also feels different from the standard model, and I think I prefer the feel of the standard model. Of course, as with anything that is a matter of personal preference, you will need to compare and decide for yourself.