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Offline F2a

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 65
My Das Keyboard experience:
« on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 17:33:46 »
Hey guys. Well first off I should say that I've been using a steel series 6G gaming keyboard with Cherry Black keys for a few years now. I was a professional gamer so I received it for free and I loved it. I feel the steel series keyboards are on top quality wise. But obviously linear keys aren't the best for lots of typing and I finally got tired of the fatigue.

So I order a Das Keyboard Professional. I live in Texas so I receive the keyboard the next day. Nice! Here are my thoughts:

-Cherry blues are much easier to type on. NICE
-Has a USB 2.0 hub that I probably won't ever use. MEH
-It's Shiny. BAD
-The space bar started squeaking when I press it. I'm talking high pitch straight into your brain. OH GOD MAKE IT STOP.

My Experience with their customer service ticket system:

Q: Why does taking keys off void warranty? All cherry boards use the same type of keys. Why don't you offer a blank key set for separate purchase so that you could make whatever part of the keyboard you wanted blank.
A: Removing keys voids warranty. I'll forward that idea to the design team.

Q: You claim that the n-key rollover function of this keyboard supports 12 simultaneous presses. However the keyboard uses USB and USB limits the maximum key-presses to 6 keys. Why does your advertising not specify that in order for this keyboard to work as promised you must use a ps/2 adapter. Also why doesn't the keyboard come with one?
A: Thank you for bringing this to our attention. That is actually an error our website. I apologize for the misinformation and inconvenience to you.

So in conclusion I'm pretty sure I'm returning this keyboard. But I would purchase the next Das Keyboard if it met my expectations. I love the cherry blues so I want to purchase a Filco board (Once they are in stock). I have both keyboards (Das and 6G) currently hooked up and switching from cherry blues to black and back and forth is crazy different. The blacks feel so hard to push now haha.
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Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 17:40:55 »
First of all, welcome to geekhack!

I am sorry to hear that all you want is a cherry blue board but you are going through so many obstacles but if I were you, just go with Filco =D I think elitekeyboards.com is going to release the 104 key version of the cherry blue so hang tight!
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KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 17:41:17 »
Actually the DAS does do something to bypass the USB 6 keys + modifiers limit. It's just debatable if the feature is worth having.
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Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 17:51:47 »
Welcome to the darksi...er...Geekhack
the third DAS is garbage :/
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Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 18:17:00 »
It seems to me that squeaky space bars are common on mechanical switch (as opposed to things like BS or Topre that don't use individual electrical switches) - certainly noticed it on Dell AT102Ws and my Blue Cherry Filco.
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Offline F2a

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 65
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 18:37:34 »
Thanks for the welcome guys. I really want a 87 key blue but who knows when that will happen. Hopefully not long after I return this.
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Offline huha

  • Posts: 388
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 20:49:13 »
Quote from: ripster;111665
#1 in da Switch poll for good reason - they're great switches.  

Wrong. Buckling spring are #1 in the switch poll, even if it was closed illegimately after 100 votes.

OP: Is NKRO important to you? If not, get a G80-3000 with chinese lettering. The Cherry boards look quite nice. Build quality is okay (the case is crap, but that doesn't impart the key feel, so it's okay) and they're far cheaper than the alternatives.

Also, you could try getting a Model M or one of Unicomps modern incarnations. They're not expensive, you can buy unprinted keycaps separately and you're buying the #1 switch technology according to ripster's poll.

-huha
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 August 2009, 20:51:56 by huha »
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline F2a

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 65
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 21:20:36 »
Since I've been a gamer my sub-conscience does believe that NKRO is important.

But ripster, if I remove the key it will void the warranty :P
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Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 21:48:56 »
I still don't understand how buckling spring can possibly be the best switch. I mean I like it and all but I think it's all just personal preference. I am definitely on the cherry blue side (;
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KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline huha

  • Posts: 388
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 21:51:24 »
I'm puzzled why someone would prefer the mushy snapback action and lackluster tactility, paired with excrutiating noise of a blue MX switch to the nice and snappy buckling spring action with lovely audible feedback that gives you 100% joy.
Greens are a bit better, but buckling spring boards are still paramount.

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 23:10:58 »
Quote from: huha;111684
I'm puzzled why someone would prefer the mushy snapback action and lackluster tactility, paired with excrutiating noise of a blue MX switch to the nice and snappy buckling spring action with lovely audible feedback that gives you 100% joy.
Greens are a bit better, but buckling spring boards are still paramount.

-huha


oh I love the sound of the blues don't get me wrong. But for some weird reason, I type much faster and more accurate with the HHKB Pro 2 for some odd reason. I still have yet to try the greens and reds from Cherrrrryyyyyy. First I have to find out where to get them =D
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KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 23:27:01 »
Quote from: huha;111684
I'm puzzled why someone would prefer the mushy snapback action and lackluster tactility


we're all in denial, deep down rubber dome is our favorite "switch"
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Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 23:48:10 »
Quote from: huha;111684
I'm puzzled why someone would prefer the mushy snapback action and lackluster tactility, paired with excrutiating noise of a blue MX switch to the nice and snappy buckling spring action with lovely audible feedback that gives you 100% joy.
Greens are a bit better, but buckling spring boards are still paramount.

-huha


While I agree with you on the Cherry blues I would replace your buckling spring with the quite and fantastic feel of a Topre myself.

But don't get me wrong I like BS boards as well but my fingers don't like them that much any more. I still plug in my Model M Space saver and use it for a few hours every week or so.
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Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 23:49:36 »
Quote from: o2dazone;111694
we're all in denial, deep down rubber dome is our favorite "switch"


As long as it is a Topre rubber dome switch that is.
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Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline sixty

  • Posts: 984
    • http://deskthority.net
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 24 August 2009, 23:50:23 »
Wait.. removing a key from a DAS voids its warranty? Quite nice that they sell those extra keys now too then!

Pay $25 to void your warranty, hell yeah!

I will take that with a big smile on my face! One like this:



Btw.. Its funny how we beat Metadot in Google for "DAS Mascot".

Who needs SEO if you have ripster!
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Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 00:07:41 »
My Model M is back in the box. I don't even know when it will come back out to see light =[
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KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 03:47:57 »
My DAS III is still my favourite board, it's the only one that never gets unplugged. None of the known problems have affected me noticably.

The feel of the Cherry blues is by far the most sophisticated of the types I own - there is an almost magical smoothness to them, as if the keycaps are held in place by a magnetic field instead of plastic sliding parts.

I have an IBM M2 and Unicomp Customiser, but their buckling springs have yet to win me over. They are hard work to type on, and that makes them an acquired taste that is difficult to acquire.

Still want a model F/AT though. Maybe that could top the blues for me.
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Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 08:18:50 »
I like BS, but they are too heavy.  I would be willing to trade my Ms (and some other 'boards) for a Topre-based 'board if anyone wants to trade.
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Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 09:36:30 »
We need a new poll that is only blue cherry vs. BS with no timeout.
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Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 09:39:45 »
Quote from: watduzhkstand4;111682
I still don't understand how buckling spring can possibly be the best switch. I mean I like it and all but I think it's all just personal preference. I am definitely on the cherry blue side (;

Try a Model F, gives the Blue Cherries a run for their money.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2009, 09:56:06 by ch_123 »
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Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 09:53:11 »
There's a cheap XT on eBay. It won't work with your PC, but it will give you a good idea of what people are on about.

I must admit, though, I like the Blue Cherries, they're just not as satisfying to type on as the Model F. And while they're nice and light, I don't find them faster to type on compared with BS.
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Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 10:13:30 »
I will get a Model F after I recoup from getting this HHKB Pro 2!
Logged
KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline timw4mail

  • Posts: 1329
    • https://timshomepage.net
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 11:55:50 »
Quote from: watduzhkstand4;111757
I will get a Model F after I recoup from getting this HHKB Pro 2!

You've got to find one first ;P
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Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 12:34:47 »
Quote from: timw4mail;111782
You've got to find one first ;P


That is the problem with the Model F. They are just not readily available in a form that can be used with today's computers. Before I get jumped Yea I know their is a AT model F but they are hard to find especially for someone that does not know exactly what to look for.
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Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 12:49:51 »
I guess I will use the money for the Model F for lowpoly's sexy board =D
Logged
KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 13:26:59 »
Yes that is going to be a nice board once he gets it to market. I hate to say it but if he gets the price right it will be a HHKB Pro killer. But then again maybe that will make PFU do a HHKB Pro 3 that is programmable which is what I really want. That and a couple of extra modifier keys that is.
Logged
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline cmr

  • Posts: 295
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 14:49:31 »
i can't imagine finding the sound of blue switches to be "excruciating" at all.

i bet that warranty business is more of an "on paper" thing than an "actually enforced" thing. i suspect also that it has to do with stabilized keys, and not wanting to get a box with a keyboard and a bunch of loose keys and stabilizer parts in it from people who don't have the patience to figure out how to get it back together. years ago, i used to have a das ii, and the keyswitch on the 'enter' key failed. they happily approved the RMA even though i said i'd pulled the key off and pushed the keyswitch stem directly to isolate the problem.

which reminds me... i don't want another blank keyboard. i never had problems except with the symbols on the number row. but i never could remember those for some reason.
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Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 15:26:40 »
Quote from: cmr;111811
which reminds me... i don't want another blank keyboard. i never had problems except with the symbols on the number row. but i never could remember those for some reason.


Using TypeFaster set to the "Least accurate" lesson will fix that real quick.
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Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 20:06:01 »
Quote from: rdjack21;111796
Yes that is going to be a nice board once he gets it to market. I hate to say it but if he gets the price right it will be a HHKB Pro killer. But then again maybe that will make PFU do a HHKB Pro 3 that is programmable which is what I really want. That and a couple of extra modifier keys that is.


But do you really think PFU would bother making a Pro 3 in any situation? lol. I mean, it's been how many years now since they had the Pro 2 and they don't show any sign of making a new one.
Logged
KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN

Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 20:10:32 »
hhkb pro 3

G13 eat your heart out :P
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Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 25 August 2009, 22:13:11 »
Quote from: watduzhkstand4;111880
But do you really think PFU would bother making a Pro 3 in any situation? lol. I mean, it's been how many years now since they had the Pro 2 and they don't show any sign of making a new one.

It's been around three years since the HHKB Pro 2 came out. I think but I'm not positive because I can't find it but I think the HHKB Pro was on the market for about 3-4 years when the Pro 2 came out. So you never know. They may make one and they may not. But I can hope that if someone makes something that directly competes with it that it may motivate them to do something.
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Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline watduzhkstand4

  • Posts: 511
My Das Keyboard experience:
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 26 August 2009, 00:27:46 »
Quote from: rdjack21;111903
It's been around three years since the HHKB Pro 2 came out. I think but I'm not positive because I can't find it but I think the HHKB Pro was on the market for about 3-4 years when the Pro 2 came out. So you never know. They may make one and they may not. But I can hope that if someone makes something that directly competes with it that it may motivate them to do something.


I wonder what PFU is going to do with their HHKB if they were to make a third generation. They must keep this form factor... Maybe modify the switch a little bit? I don't think that would happen... put a mouse in it like lowpoly? xD
Logged
KEYBOARDS
Cherry Blue *Filco Tenkeyless w/ blank keys* w/ red ESC key thanks to Megarat
Cherry Red Noppoo Choc Mini
IBM Model M 1391401 12/15/88
Siig Minitouch w/ White Alps

SOLD
HHKB Pro 2 white w/ blank keys red ESC key and blank WASD keys
HHKB L-2
Cherry Brown Compaq mx11800
Dell AT101W
Cherry Red Leopold 104-key Otaku FC500RR/ABN
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