Apple M3501 $20 shipped

[nubbinator]

Likely dampened Cream Alps, but could be Salmon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-Extended-Keyboard-II-M3501-clickity-clack-Mac-/121537226181?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c4c2ee5c5

[nubbinator]

Or lot of three for $54

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-of-3-Vintage-Apple-Macintosh-ADB-Extended-Keyboard-II-Model-M3501-/281552532931?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item418dd6b5c3

[jacobolus]

Great price on that set of 3 for someone who wants some sets of Alps dyesubs to use for projects. I’d be tempted, but I bought a set of 5 of these for cheap a few months ago, and I don’t need more keycaps than that until I can use the ones I have.

Any of these could also be the later white-slider damped switches (same idea as the cream-slider ones, but without the "slits" in the top housing, and IMO not as nice). All the ones listed here are made in the USA, so no chance of getting the Alps-mount Mitsumi version (which is just as well: Alps-mount Mitsumis are pretty “meh”).

[RoflCopter4]

I'm fairly certain that AEK keycaps are laser etched, not dye sublimated.

[jacobolus]

I'm fairly certain that AEK keycaps are laser etched, not dye sublimated.

Certain based on what? If you do a google images search you can probably find a high-enough resolution picture to see the dye.

Edit: here are some good ones http://kbd.rzw.jp/column/apple_extended_keyboard_ii_m3501/

[fohat.digs]

I'm fairly certain that AEK keycaps are laser etched, not dye sublimated.

I have found that at least some of the good ones continued even past the AEKs and into some of the early "Design" keyboards (I have gotten 2 like that, ones with detachable cables).

[dorkvader]

Great price on that set of 3 for someone who wants some sets of Alps dyesubs to use for projects.

Just hypothetically, how many "other" keycaps would I have to buy from SP to make a MD infinity keyboard from this?

[RoflCopter4]

I have an AEK with orange Alps, which means (I think) that it's relatively early. These don't look like any dye sublimated legends I've ever seen. They're fairly light. I would have guessed laser etched. I could be wrong though.

All I know for sure is that for some reason putting them on my Chicony 5181 has somehow made it feel worse than with it's own normal ****ty ass keycaps. Very odd.

[jacobolus]

I have an AEK with orange Alps,

Definitely dyesubs.

All I know for sure is that for some reason putting them on my Chicony 5181 has somehow made it feel worse than with it's own normal ****ty ass keycaps. Very odd.

Weird. I spent a month or so typing on a Chicony KB-5181 using mostly keycaps from an AEK, and I thought it was great. (I also pulled out of its awful case: PCB + plate directly resting on a wooden board instead, much better.) Then I desoldered all the switches because I have a project planned for them.

[RoflCopter4]

Yeah, I don't quite get it. Maybe it just felt weird because the spacebar and other larger keys couldn't be replaced, or maybe I actually like the feel of smooth ABS keys. Maybe I'm just a lunatic. I mean, I am actually enjoying my new Dell At101W with Black Alps, and everyone else seems to think this board is terrible.

[fohat.digs]

I am actually enjoying my new Dell At101W with Black Alps, and everyone else seems to think this board is terrible.

A good AT101 can be really nice. I used one for years and still have it. However, they can also be awful.

Spec-wise, blacks are supposed to be very similar to orange/salmon/pink.

My experience with AEKs is that serial numbers up to about 1/2M have orange and over about 1/2M have salmon.

[jacobolus]

It’s all relative. Personally my preference in tactile complicated Alps switches strictly follows chronological order: orange > salmon > early black > later black (without 'slits') > simplified black, with ivory, brown, green, and various dampened switches not really falling easily in a strict ordering.

Condition makes a big difference, and even the later black Alps switches in an AT101W can be nice enough when in good condition, while orange switches can be awful when filled with grit or totally worn out.

[RoflCopter4]

I am actually enjoying my new Dell At101W with Black Alps, and everyone else seems to think this board is terrible.

A good AT101 can be really nice. I used one for years and still have it. However, they can also be awful.

Spec-wise, blacks are supposed to be very similar to orange/salmon/pink.

My experience with AEKs is that serial numbers up to about 1/2M have orange and over about 1/2M have salmon.

I have to wonder what on earth the difference is. As far as I can tell, the design is identical to Orange/Salmon Alps (I have only tried Orange but as far as I know Orange and Salmon are also the same??). Black Alps are definitely heavier but that ought to just imply a stiffer spring.

My AEK is serial number 629084 and is, as I mentioned, Orange.

It’s all relative. Personally my preference in tactile complicated Alps switches strictly follows chronological order: orange > salmon > early black > later black (without 'slits') > simplified black, with ivory, brown, green, and various dampened switches not really falling easily in a strict ordering.

Condition makes a big difference, and even the later black Alps switches in an AT101W can be nice enough when in good condition, while orange switches can be awful when filled with grit or totally worn out.

My AT101W was NIB and does seem to feel ok. I have to wonder if it will age on me though. What is it that makes bad Black Alps bad?

[jacobolus]

As far as I can tell, the design is identical to Orange/Salmon Alps (I have only tried Orange but as far as I know Orange and Salmon are also the same??).

The concept is the same, but over time Alps kept finding ways to cut corners to reduce the cost. The earliest switches have a tall switchplate and some factory-applied lubricant on the slider, with great design and QC on the tactile leaves. Over time, the switches got (IMO) progressively further away from their ideal, a tiny bit at a time. The clicks get a bit less crisp; the force curve starts to get less “clean” (partly due to the difference between short and tall switchplates I think); the switches get a bit less consistent from switch to switch and batch to batch; they change or eliminate the factory applied lube; the sound isn’t quite as satisfying. At some point they started using slightly stiffer springs which was also IMO a mistake. Then the “simplified” switches are that process taken even further, substantially reducing the number of parts in the switch mechanism.

What is it that makes bad Black Alps bad?

My suspicion is that most of the switches people think are “bad” either have a bunch of grit/dust inside, between the slider and the top housing, which makes the switch very scratchy to press, or were very heavily used or improperly stored and have worn out tactile leaves. These problems are easy to avoid if you don't store your keyboard in a pile of miscellaneous junk in your attic for 20 years or spend equally long typing on it 8 hours/day doing data entry or transcription.

[Touch_It]

There are good and bad black alps.  Good ones feel crisp and tactile.  bad ones feel like, err bad lol.  not sure how do describe it but it is definitely not fun like it should be.  Whatever the reason may be, it seems, from what I've experienced/read that white at101w's tend to have better switches than black boards.

[RoflCopter4]

Not having used many Alps keyboards, I can't really comment. All I know is that this particular board is excellent. I can't believe how tactile this is for a non-clickey switch. It's less smooth than the Orange Alps on my AEK but much more tactile.

That said, yesterday I wanted to take off one of the keycaps on my AT101W and when I did it went flying through the air. I didn't see where it went. I've now probably spent 4-5 solid hours looking for it over the past day and I'm about ready to just curl up in the fetal position and alternate between sobbing and screaming. How the ****ing **** could it be this lost? Where on earth could it have gone?