Next purchase advice wanted

[dekerf]

Hello all, well my first mechanical keyboard was an ABS M1 and it definitely got me hooked though I wasn't totally satisfied with it. For my next purchase I want a keyboard that is a true clicky keyboard rather than the clacky M1. I would also like something with lighter keys, or perhaps I should say, something that doesn't require a lot of force to actuate the keys. Even though it's not mechanical I really love typing on my old Thinkpad T40 keyboard so maybe what I'm after is something like that but with more tactility. I think this has something to do with the Ripometer values I've seen mentioned though I don't really know the details about it. From my understanding I'm thinking that I would like lower values so my first question would be what clicky keyboard has the lowest ripometer measurements?

I also want something that is tenkeyless so at the moment I'm looking at the Zero Series with the Fukka switches. I'm also considering waiting a month or so and getting the Filco with the blue cherrys. The Zero is available now and it's cheaper or perhaps there are other options I haven't considered. The Topre keyboards are too expensive for me though I have a sneaking suspicion they may be what I'm looking for. Thanks for any insights!

[timw4mail]

Either wait for the blue cherry Filco, or get a Scorpius M10. Blue cherrys seem to be what you are looking for.

[erricrice]

The Zero Series Filco has white ALPS copies which I like, but which are pretty stiff in general.  If you're looking for something that is lighter to type on, definitely something with blue cherries.  

+1 for the filco it would be well worth the wait.

Majestouch said in this thread that the 104 key Blue Cherry Filco is not too far away so if you like your numpad, that would be the best way to go!

[dekerf]

Hmm how does the brown cherry filco compare to the M1? I know the brown's are not true clicky but maybe that's not such a big deal.

Edit: Definitely want tenkeyless and I've read from a few different sources that the Scorpius is pretty badly constructed. Seems I should hold out for the Filco blue's. I got an email 10 days ago from Elitekeyboards saying the Filco Tenkeyless Blues will be about 6 weeks away. Problem is I sold my M1 and I'm typing on junker right now...will I be able to hold out??? Yeah probably not.

[itlnstln]

I used to use Alps 'boards exclusively, and after I tried the brown Cherrys, I was hooked.  The blue Cherrys feel very similar, but click.*  The brown Cherrys feel worlds lighter than the Alps compatible switches in the M1.  They  are so much lighter, that you may think they are linear and too light at first blush.  Over time, as your touch develops, you will begin to feel and appreciate the subtle nuances of the Cherry browns.  It might sound a little over dramatic, but they are very different switches.
 
If you like switches that click, I would seriously doubt that Topres would be for you.
 
*It's important to note that while many people here at GH like Cherry blues, there are also a bunch of us that find the click in the Cherry blues to be somewhat annoying.  It's high-pitched and plasticky, but again, many people here like them.  I think they feel great, I just don't really like the sound.

[ch_123]

I've never used Brown Cherries, but I'm going to assume that the browns are basically a lighter, quieter version of the blues... I'd definitely go for the Cherry switches, even if the ABS M1 is a good bit cheaper. The Alps have a lot of tension at the top of the switch, and then they just give way. You pretty much bottom out on them all the time. They're also quite noisy for what is meant to be a quiet switch. The cherries on the other hand have a more gradual resistance, and they are quite bouncy, so you don't bottom out on them nearly as hard. I'd say that if you're doing a lot of typing, the Cherrys are a no-brainer choice. There's a case to be made for the stiffer switch if you are doing a lot of gaming though. Then again, there are a lot of people who play games quite happily with browns.

[bigpook]

I guess that depends on how you define stiff. The filco zero with the fukka switches are noticeably different in feel from the original XM's. The fukka's have a little bit more resistance than the black alps but have a somewhat springy feel to them.
The balky feeling of the white XM's is no longer there, at all.

[itlnstln]

I've never used Brown Cherries, but I'm going to assume that the browns are basically a lighter, quieter version of the blues... I'd definitely go for the Cherry switches, even if the ABS M1 is a good bit cheaper. The Alps have a lot of tension at the top of the switch, and then they just give way. You pretty much bottom out on them all the time. They're also quite noisy for what is meant to be a quiet switch. The cherries on the other hand have a more gradual resistance, and they are quite bouncy, so you don't bottom out on them nearly as hard. I'd say that if you're doing a lot of typing, the Cherrys are a no-brainer choice. There's a case to be made for the stiffer switch if you are doing a lot of gaming though. Then again, there are a lot of people who play games quite happily with browns.

QFT.  This is exactly right.

[travnewmatic]

with regards to the cherry blues, has any one else noticed the gap between where the electronic switch closes the circuit and the bump on the way back up?  thats the only, albeit, probably-my-fault, complaint i have about the cherry blues.

other than that they're absolutely a joy to type on.

you can read my review of a cherry blue keyboard here.

[ch_123]

I was comparing Alps with Cherrys, my opinions are different if you introduce buckling springs into it. I would agree that the Cherrys aren't great for typing accuracy, but I feel compared with a Black Alps board that the speed of the Cherrys is more than enough to compensate. I also find that Alps tire my hands out, but as you say, YMMV.

with regards to the cherry blues, has any one else noticed the gap between where the electronic switch closes the circuit and the bump on the way back up? thats the only, albeit, probably-my-fault, complaint i have about the cherry blues.

Yeah, that gap is refered to as 'hysteresis' and it's very noticable on the blue Cherry. Consequently, it isnt exactly the best gamging switch in the world, but I use mine for that purpose irrespectively.

[travnewmatic]

thank you...  i'm glad that i'm not the only person thats noticed this...

dont want to thread hijack, but really quick, does the IBM model m/unicomp customizer have this same separation between sensation and actual keystroke recognition?

[itlnstln]

I find that I make less errors on the Cherrys. Like ch_123, I get tired when typing on Alps and BS for lond periods of time, and when that is the case, I get a lot of errors by not pressing the key all the way to activation.
 
As always, YMMV.

[timw4mail]

thank you...  i'm glad that i'm not the only person thats noticed this...

dont want to thread hijack, but really quick, does the IBM model m/unicomp customizer have this same separation between sensation and actual keystroke recognition?

Not nearly as much, as the buckling spring is the actual actuation mechanism on the Model M, unlike the blue cherry, where there's a separated leaf spring for actuation, and a flange for tactility.

[ch_123]

dont want to thread hijack, but really quick, does the IBM model m/unicomp customizer have this same separation between sensation and actual keystroke recognition?

All key switches have hysteresis, it's necessary for them to work properly. What you are really asking is whether it is as pronounced on BS keyboards compared with blue Cherrys. The answer is that it isn't.

[travnewmatic]

Not nearly as much, as the buckling spring is the actual actuation mechanism on the Model M, unlike the blue cherry, where there's a separated leaf spring for actuation, and a flange for tactility.

perfect, thats just what i wanted.

but when considering cherries, at least with the blues, i think that delay is definitely something to consider.

thats kind of the cool thing about the Cherry G80-3000, it uses the same switches as the filco (the one with the blues) but for a lot less money.

[dekerf]

Hmmm ok I think I'm leaning towards the Filco Cherry Browns now. The consensus here seems to be that they're lighter, smoother, and quieter than the M1 black alps or Fukka unbranded white alps and that's pretty much what I'm looking for.

[itlnstln]

thats kind of the cool thing about the Cherry G80-3000, it uses the same switches as the filco (the one with the blues) but for a lot less money.

In the case of my G80-3000 with Cherry browns, the feel is quite different than my Filco. I would suggest getting both; although, I like the feel of the Cherry 'board a bit better than the Filco.

[majestouch]

Obligatory chime-in:

The Filco is a good choice (i'm totally biased), BUT on a more serious note, I wanted to correct some misinformation regarding the Fukka switches. The Fukkas are not fake ALPS, or ALPS copies, they are real unbranded ALPS, they just lack an ALPS logo.

[dekerf]

Obligatory chime-in:

The Filco is a good choice (i'm totally biased), BUT on a more serious note, I wanted to correct some misinformation regarding the Fukka switches. The Fukkas are not fake ALPS, or ALPS copies, they are real unbranded ALPS, they just lack an ALPS logo.

Ah, sorry bout that. I edited my post above for correctness. So Majestouch, any B-Stock Tenkeyless Tactile Touch's lying around? ;P

[ch_123]

Check Geekhack's marketplace, they pop up every now and then.