Necessary to double up .4mm O-rings on PBT DSA caps from Signature Plastics?

[NotLarryEllison]

I'm new to the scene, n00b apologies, etc., but I've been both lurking and looking around for info about this but I haven't come across it before. I want to be sure that I'm not somehow "doing it wrong."

Short version: putting one o-ring on did absolutely NOTHING. I had to install two on each cap to get any effect whatsoever.

Has anyone else heard of this?

Longer version: this is on a Truly Ergonomic with Cherry MX Browns. I swapped out the stock (horrific) ABS caps with a PBT set from Signature Plastics that are DSA profile. The O-rings I used were the blue ones from WASD on Amazon, described as "0A-R - 0.4mm Reduction": http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZQ2OF8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Supposedly these are the thicker O-rings (.4mm reduction, not the .2mm). But like I said above, I got zero (and I mean ZERO) effect from a single o-ring. After installing two per keycap, I'm definitely getting an effect. And by the way, I do like it VERY much, thanks for asking.

I was actually worried that I'd have the opposite problem because the DSA caps seem like they are a lower height than pretty much everything else. But it does appear like most non-DSA caps have a "cross" of sorts in the bottom of the cap and I suppose this is pushing the o-ring closer to the switch. Or something.

Am I crazy?

[Grendel]

I use two -- 1st is a 008 Buna-N, 70A, 2nd (facing the switch) one of  these. Works very well for me.

[TotalChaos]

Longer version: this is on a Truly Ergonomic with Cherry MX Browns. I swapped out the stock (horrific) ABS caps with a PBT set from Signature Plastics that are DSA profile.

What was so bad about the keycaps that you had to immediately replace them?

[NotLarryEllison]

Maybe the word "horrific" was a bit strong... But after literally just one week, many of the keys were getting the typical ABS shininess which really annoyed me. Of course it was only the most used keys that were getting this look, so the board overall is inconsistent and tacky looking. In all other respects this keyboard is really well made EXCEPT for the keycaps.

When I finally put on my first set of PBT caps, I found that I REALLY liked the feel of them much better than the ABS.

Here's the tl;dr version of the next paragraph: I can't connect two of the wider keys to the stabilizers so they are a little loose.

There are several keys on this board that have very nonstandard key shapes - they're kind of a "V" shape (if you look at a pic of a TECK, they're the keys in the middle vertical row). I was able to use normal Signature Plastics pieces and basically work around this without too much trouble, until I found that in the last couple of cases (what are set up as Backspace and Default by default) the three mounting points on the back are not lined up horizontally. The outer two (the ones that connect to the stabilizer) are offset slightly from the one in the center (the one actually connected to the switch). You can think of it as if they are following the subtle "V" shape of the keycap itself. This meant that I couldn't use the 3-point 2x keycap without cutting off the 2 outer attachment points. I'm not sure why they did this - it doesn't seem like it could add any advantage. But it would be nice if they lined up normally so that any (typical) caps would work.

So... some some cosmetic issues, feel issues and some engineering/design issues all add up to a lot of dissatisfaction with the caps overall.

[TotalChaos]

Maybe the word "horrific" was a bit strong...

I thought they were disintegrating or cracking like my friend's Leopold keycaps did.  You had me horrified. 

But after literally just one week, many of the keys were getting the typical ABS shininess which really annoyed me. Of course it was only the most used keys that were getting this look, so the board overall is inconsistent and tacky looking. In all other respects this keyboard is really well made EXCEPT for the keycaps.

Ok now I understand.

When I finally put on my first set of PBT caps, I found that I REALLY liked the feel of them much better than the ABS.

I think they only "feel" different because they were cast in different molds.  I think if the ABS keycaps had been cast in the same mold as the PBT keycaps then they would have the exact same texture on them and therefore the exact same feel.

If you ever buy any POM keycaps I would absolutely love to hear your reaction to them.

Here's the tl;dr version of the next paragraph: I can't connect two of the wider keys to the stabilizers so they are a little loose.

There are several keys on this board that have very nonstandard key shapes - they're kind of a "V" shape (if you look at a pic of a TECK, they're the keys in the middle vertical row). I was able to use normal Signature Plastics pieces and basically work around this without too much trouble, until I found that in the last couple of cases (what are set up as Backspace and Default by default) the three mounting points on the back are not lined up horizontally. The outer two (the ones that connect to the stabilizer) are offset slightly from the one in the center (the one actually connected to the switch). You can think of it as if they are following the subtle "V" shape of the keycap itself. This meant that I couldn't use the 3-point 2x keycap without cutting off the 2 outer attachment points. I'm not sure why they did this - it doesn't seem like it could add any advantage. But it would be nice if they lined up normally so that any (typical) caps would work.

So... some some cosmetic issues, feel issues and some engineering/design issues all add up to a lot of dissatisfaction with the caps overall.

My brain is unable to visualize what you are describing.  Any chance of a pic or 2?

I have been seriously thinking about buying one of those keyboards but I wanted more infos before I decided.
I too want to replace the TEK keycaps, but for a different reason.  So if you could find it in your heart to post a pic I would really appreciate it. 

[TotalChaos]

I was actually worried that I'd have the opposite problem because the DSA caps seem like they are a lower height than pretty much everything else. But it does appear like most non-DSA caps have a "cross" of sorts in the bottom of the cap and I suppose this is pushing the o-ring closer to the switch. Or something.

Around a year ago, I wrote Signature Plastics a long Email complaining about their lack of upskirt keycap pix so I could figure out which of their caps have crossbars and which don't.  I explained that it makes a big difference for Ergonomic reasons and since they have a big website with pix on it already, why not be nice and show which keycaps have crossbars and which don't?

They said they would look into it but they probably forgot all about it.  I haven't been back to their website to check.

[NotLarryEllison]

Around a year ago, I wrote Signature Plastics a long Email complaining about their lack of upskirt keycap pix so I could figure out which of their caps have crossbars and which don't.  I explained that it makes a big difference for Ergonomic reasons and since they have a big website with pix on it already, why not be nice and show which keycaps have crossbars and which don't?
They said they would look into it but they probably forgot all about it.  I haven't been back to their website to check.

I'm assuming you mean Truly Ergonomic, not Signature Plastics. If that's the case...

All info below is only referring to my model, the 209. the 207 has a couple more "2x" keys than mine. Specifically, the Alt keys on those boards are actually two 1x keys.

I've attached a close up pic that should demonstrate the "offset" I'm talking about. I added a red bar to the image just as a reference point so you can see that the middle "post" (the one actually attached to the Cherry switch) is offset slightly lower than the two posts attached to the stabilizer. Backspace and  Enter are the only two keys like this on the whole keyboard -- the other keys that have three mount points (the ones that use stabilizers) are aligned "normally," i.e. perfectly straight horizontally.

Again referring only to the 209 model, the keys that use stabilizers are:

Straight horizontal alignment

• Shift
• Control
• Space bars

Offset horizontal alignment

• Backspace
• Enter

The 207 model definitely appears as though you could just add the two ALT keys to the "straight horizontal alignment" list above.

[TotalChaos]

I'm assuming you mean Truly Ergonomic, not Signature Plastics. If that's the case...

I meant Signature Plastics.  They make a lot of keycaps.


Thanks for the pic!  It was worth a thousand words. 

If I get a Truly Ergonomic it will definitely be the model with the most keys and the USA style enter key.

They must have spent a gajillion $$$ getting all those superduper custom keycaps made.

[NotLarryEllison]

Yeah, it's really odd... I think I'm repeating myself here, but I don't see how doing this made the keyboard better in any way. The stabs have to be offset from the switch, the keycaps have to be "extra custom", etc.

I've also left out one important issue, but this only matters if you are thinking about replacing the caps on the TECK. If you are using (for ex.) a standard 2x size Signature Plastics cap to replace the Enter key, by default it will hit the edge of the case on the bottom. You'll have to dremel a bit off the edge of the case so the cap has enough clearance. Or, if you're lazy and/or cheap like me (I don't have a dremel), you can go ghetto style and just shave it down with an xacto knife.

It's more dangerous than it sounds...

Other than these difficulties with replacing the caps, overall I really like the TECK. I had been using a TypeMatrix 2030 for almost ten years, so the vertical column layout was a really big deal for me. That meant that just about every single other mechanical switch keyboard out there was a no-go for me. The ability to (just about 100%) remap the keys was also a major selling point and their online config makes that really easy.

I also just ordered the Ergodox kit from the July buy on MassDrop, so I'm really looking forward to putting that through its paces compared to the TECK.

[TotalChaos]

Or, if you're lazy and/or cheap like me (I don't have a dremel), you can go ghetto style and just shave it down with an xacto knife.

It's more dangerous than it sounds...

hehehehehe

* TotalChaos hands you a band-aid to stop the bleeding and a needle and thread to sew your finger back on. 

[caseyandgina]

I would really like to know if and where it is possible to order custom keycaps for the TEK - I got mine the day before yesterday (didn't realize they are now using Kailh switches but so far so good).  After a couple of days on it at work I am finally starting to adjust well to it and prefer using it over a normal layout mechanical keyboard (and am realizing that the extra stiffness of my MX Greens is really not desirable for me).  The only problem is that now I want a second one for home.  I have also adjusted some pain points for me by creating a custom layout, which is based on dvorak besides.

I would like to get a whole set of custom keycaps in the best quality I can, and PBT sounds like the best way to go.  Are the keycaps it comes with DCS profile?  Because I do like the curve effect.  It would be great if Signature Plastics would be willing to create TEK center column keycaps - I like their shape and don't want to modify my case...