Author Topic: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard  (Read 4358 times)

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Offline derezzed

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Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 23:34:53 »
A few weeks ago, I started a thread asking for advice on purchasing a tenkeyless board.  In spite of good advice from GeekHack, I was still undecided and chose not to rush into a purchase.  I started experimenting with keyboard layouts to find one that had the least amount of compromise for me and I found a good 75% layout.  Further refinement got me to a good (for me) 60% layout with almost no compromise.  I continued to refine my design, experimenting with Autohotkeys.  Autohotkeys can have some issues with key commands.  I decided to add TouchCursor to the mix and discovered that I could get a perfectly acceptable 60% layout without having to build a custom keyboard.   I plan to update my design log in the near future with the hope that someone else can benefit from it.

TouchCursor layout.
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That brings me back to my original situation.  Having spurned your advice on tenkeyless keyboards, I now come before you, a humble supplicant, begging for advice on buying a 60% board.   I’m currently considering the Filco MiniLa, the Leopold 660m, the Pok3r, and the Infinity.   I am open to other suggestions.  Before anyone suggests the HHKB Pro 2, I’m not willing to spend that much on a switch type I’ve never used, I don’t care for the layout, and it doesn’t have enough buttons.  I’ve also discounted the Poker II, KBP V60, Ducky Mini, and KBT Pure but maybe you can convince me otherwise or maybe you know about another 60% board I haven’t discovered yet. 

I want the ability to have a TouchCursor layout natively on the board.  I also use a negative tilt on my keyboard, so any board with a built-in tilt will have to be raised even higher to compensate for the built-in tilt.

The major pros for the Infinity is its programmability and the flat Tex aluminum case.
The major cons of the Infinity are its cost, the necessity of soldering the switches, and, if I understand correctly, the configuration software is not currently working.

The major pros for the other boards are price and more immediate availability.  The MiniLa has the additional benefit of having a tiny space bar, making the function keys accessible to my thumbs without having to remove my hands from the home  keys.

The cons of the rest:

The MiniLa has a built-in tilt and non-standard key sizes, making it more difficult/expensive to get replacement keys.
The Leopold 660m is actually a 66% board which is bigger than I want, and it has built in tilt.

Both keyboards do not have the function layer layout that I want and I will have to use TouchCursor to get the necessary layout.  I don’t want to rely on installing third party software to make my keyboard function the way I want it to. 

The Pok3r looks like it could give me the programmability of the Infinity at a lower cost, although it still has a built-in tilt, according to in-development screenshots.  But it’s a wildcard.  I don’t know when it’s coming to market or if it will be worth the cost.

I greatly appreciate any information or advice you can offer.   I have a full-size keyboard at work that I use as if it was a 60% board and I want to transition to a true 60% board so I can free up space and bring my mouse closer to me.  But I am willing to wait a couple months if my patience is rewarded with a keyboard that fulfills all my needs.   Does anyone know if the Infinity plate allows for modding switches without desoldering?

Offline Oobly

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 06:26:14 »
I'd recommend a Poker II in a Tex case. Unless you really don't like the Fn and Pn key placement.

Cheapish, standard layout, plate mounted, no tilt (with the new case), full programmability (except Fn and Pn key positions, although they can be shuffled around a bit with the DIP switch settings), decent stock keycaps.

Or if you can wait a little the Poker 3 with a Tex case, but it seems a shame to replace a good metal case with another good metal case just because of a design issue (tilt).

If you don't mind going without a plate, though, you could get a GON NerD60 PCB, Tex case, bag of switches and throw it together yourself. Low cost, full programmability, no tilt, whatever switches you want, easy to mod the switches, etc. On a 60% the plate does make a difference, but if it's properly mounted in a solid case, PCB mounted boards feel almost as good due to the relative lack of flex.

Or you can add a GON universal 60% plate for a little more cost.
Buying more keycaps,
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Offline Sencha

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 08:51:59 »
I prefer the FC660m over my poker II. The Minila is just No though for me. Terrible looking board. Plus ABS caps.

Offline inanis

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 09:18:07 »
I have a Poker II with a TEX case and I think it is a great solution - but like Oobly mentioned, you can't change that PN location. I do not use a negative tilt, but I do like my board flat. It would be very easy to make it a negative tilt though. If it is the price of the case + the Poker putting you off, you could always go for the TEX Acrylic case, which I think runs about $65. I have this as well, and it is also very nice, though not as heavy. If you wanted to go really out of the box, you could get make a case easy enough out of whatever materials you may choose, pretty much regardless of which 60% board you choose. A 60% case is about as basic as you can get.
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Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 11:31:02 »
I have tried a lot of kb and I love my Pokers. I especially love how you can throw pretty much any keyset on them. Not all of the smaller boards are that way. GON makes some awesome PCB's as well. That could be a great option for you.
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Offline derezzed

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 10 March 2015, 21:56:34 »
I somehow overlooked the programmability of the Poker 2.  I'm going to give that one a shot.

As much as I'd like to wait for the Pok3r, the Poker 2 is available now and will probably be much cheaper.  However, I'm having trouble finding a store that has them in stock.  Any suggestions? 

Offline Hoaryhag

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 22:14:50 »
I just got a white Poker 2 from Banggood.com.  Delivery didn't take too long.  Been lurking around and finally decided on a Poker 2. Got some oem blank white pbt caps from geekkeys.  Just waitin for the right cherry profile GB to get into. The only thing I miss about my fullsize keyboard is the stepped caps lock.  From my gaming habits my pinky floats on that step to hit shift more easily, and it helps me find home row.  I ordered a center stemmed stepped capslock.  It's not here yet but I'm already getting used to and liking this keyboard.  Now I can center my keyboard and have some mouse space.  I got red switches and liking them but for League of Legends I blow my flash since my F finger is a bit twitchy.  I ordered a couple black and clear switches and some blue switches from Digikey.  I'll put a black or clear on my F and see how that works and put some blue switches on Enter, Capslock, Backspace, Esc, and maybe a couple other modifiers.  It'll be fun to try some other switch types.  Just waitin for my orders to come in.  Damn you Geekhack.  My wife already thinks I'm crazy.
 

Offline ctbear

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 16 March 2015, 11:42:29 »
I have a similar question. The Ducky Shine Mini is on massdrop now and I am interested. I have been eyeing another 60% MX keyboard to add to my existing HHKB. So far it is down to Poker2/3 and the Shine Mini. How does everything think of the Shine Mini?

Offline ideus

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 16 March 2015, 12:16:58 »

It seems the infinity's price is near your top limit, if so I do not see any other alternative but the Leopold 660M. It is a nice solid board, but it is not programmable, the space bar is not standard, so it is not replaceable. Its right shift and window caps are special size, making hard to replace the full set.


The infinity is a nice intent for a programmable, with its hard edges still there. If you are accustomed to standard ANSI layouts the backspace at the top of enter key will be a hard hit. The nice and long 2 units traditional one at the top right corner of the board is outstanding.


If you want something really meeting all your requirements you should be willing to spend much more money, and some work of your own, like the Nerd60.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 16 March 2015, 12:57:39 »
You should definitely start soldering, you can easily mod switches, replace switches, feel better about the future, maintainability-wise

The standard layout of the infinity keyboard is great because you can utilize the rightmost 3 1.25's and the larger shift key as arrow keys, enjoy the benefits of a true 60% with arrow keys

The infinity keyboard would be perfect if the backspace was standard, in my opinion, for keycap compatibility, blanks are good for some keys, but not those keys

On the other hand, 2 months is a long time, even if you can find someone to transfer his/her drop to you ...
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Offline derezzed

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 16 March 2015, 19:21:20 »
I have a similar question. The Ducky Shine Mini is on massdrop now and I am interested. I have been eyeing another 60% MX keyboard to add to my existing HHKB. So far it is down to Poker2/3 and the Shine Mini. How does everything think of the Shine Mini?

I don't have personal experience with the Shine Mini but I do have a Ducky TKL.  I considered the Mini and decided against it for several reasons.  I don't care for the large bezel.  The case is plastic and aluminum.  The only switch choices on MassDrop are Reds and Blues.  The keyboard allows for some keyswapping but it's not fully programmable -- but it does allow you to individually program LEDs, because shiny lights are more important than functionality.


It seems the infinity's price is near your top limit, if so I do not see any other alternative but the Leopold 660M. It is a nice solid board, but it is not programmable, the space bar is not standard, so it is not replaceable. Its right shift and window caps are special size, making hard to replace the full set.


The infinity is a nice intent for a programmable, with its hard edges still there. If you are accustomed to standard ANSI layouts the backspace at the top of enter key will be a hard hit. The nice and long 2 units traditional one at the top right corner of the board is outstanding.


If you want something really meeting all your requirements you should be willing to spend much more money, and some work of your own, like the Nerd60.
You should definitely start soldering, you can easily mod switches, replace switches, feel better about the future, maintainability-wise

The standard layout of the infinity keyboard is great because you can utilize the rightmost 3 1.25's and the larger shift key as arrow keys, enjoy the benefits of a true 60% with arrow keys

The infinity keyboard would be perfect if the backspace was standard, in my opinion, for keycap compatibility, blanks are good for some keys, but not those keys

On the other hand, 2 months is a long time, even if you can find someone to transfer his/her drop to you ...

The Leopold FC660 is a little too large for my tastes, and it's not programmable.  The Nerd60 is too rich for my blood.  For that cost, I would build my own custom.  Also, from what I've been reading on GeekHack, it seems that Gon is currently a bit overwhelmed with work and I might have to wait a little longer before I got my order if I were to order a Nerd60. 

I decided against the Infinity because I would have to wait too long to receive it and I'm not a fan of the bent plate case.

I initially decided to get a Poker 2 but, after seeing current Poker 2 prices and availability, I decided to wait for the Pok3r, as I imagine that I will be able to buy one from a US vendor for not much more than it would cost me to buy a Poker 2 from an overseas vendor now.  It's not my preferred situation, but it is what it is. 

edit:  I have not had any business transaction or communication with Gon, but it occurs to me that my statement regarding Gon's availability could be contributing to an atmosphere of baseless speculation/rumormonging.  I must give Gon the benefit of the doubt but I will post a link to the thread that caused me to express my concern.  Can't get ahold of GON; Need to change my delivery address.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 March 2015, 23:57:57 by derezzed »

Offline ideus

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 16 March 2015, 20:58:38 »
The Pok3r pricing is unknown, but considering it will feature full programmability, a metal plate, and a metal case, it should be easily above $200.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 04:42:42 »
The Pok3r pricing is unknown, but considering it will feature full programmability, a metal plate, and a metal case, it should be easily above $200.

There is currently an interest check / group buy to preorder ISO versions of the Poker3 for 109€, with a possible 10 to 20 euro discount, too. Pretty good price I reckon: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69443.0

Release date is supposed to be 1 May.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline derezzed

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 20:35:10 »
The Pok3r pricing is unknown, but considering it will feature full programmability, a metal plate, and a metal case, it should be easily above $200.

There is currently an interest check / group buy to preorder ISO versions of the Poker3 for 109€, with a possible 10 to 20 euro discount, too. Pretty good price I reckon: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69443.0

Release date is supposed to be 1 May.

I don't mind a full-figured enter key on a full-size keyboard but, unless it's specifically for people with syndactyly, that ISO enter key does not belong on a 60% board.

Offline ideus

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Re: Here we go again. Need advice for 60% keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 23:24:06 »
The Pok3r pricing is unknown, but considering it will feature full programmability, a metal plate, and a metal case, it should be easily above $200.

There is currently an interest check / group buy to preorder ISO versions of the Poker3 for 109€, with a possible 10 to 20 euro discount, too. Pretty good price I reckon: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69443.0

Release date is supposed to be 1 May.


I am hoping for that to be true as well, it is hard to believe though, and tim is not posting news on there, the last was telling something like "i have news but i am in train now" or something like that.