New MS keyboard with no Windows menu key

[phoenix]

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/sep09/09-09bmk6000pr.mspx

An Fn key sits where the menu key used to be on the older series. Maybe it's only because there is not enough room, but still, there is no way to access it. I hope this marks the official end of the menu key. I personally never used it.

Edit: I'm NOT talking about the Windows(OS/Logo) key, just the Menu key that brings up the context menu, which is not used in any key combos.

[phoenix]

Kishy, you are mistaken. I wasn't referring to the Windows OS key, just the Menu key that brings up the context menu. I use the OS key quite a bit myself, too.

[phoenix]

Alt + Space brings up the menu for window management. It's not what the menu key does. The menu key gives you the "right-click" menu, except it appears in the upper left corner of the working area (e.g., inside your browser) instead of where the mouse is. You can still get it in most Windows apps by pressing Shift + F10. I don't think there are any combos that require the menu key.

Oops, sorry...I reacted kind of aggressively there too, didn't mean to.

Hmm...context menu can still be accessed using alt+space, so I don't see an issue with getting rid of it. Are there any key combos that involve it (I don't know of any)?

[msiegel]

wow, they did a great job getting rid of things. i'm impressed

[JBert]

Another thin keyboard? Ew...

I do occasionally use the menu key though. It is nice if you want to work "mouseless" but can't remember some shortcut to a function sitting in the context menu.

[quadibloc]

Alt + Space brings up the menu for window management. It's not what the menu key does.

I thought it was Alt-Tab that let you switch windows.

What cracked me up is the FN key only gives you Ins, Home and End.  They didn't even include the virtual numpad feature since I assume they want to make more money off of $45 numpads.

I'm surprised the Fn key didn't let you turn another key into the Windows Menu key... and another key into Scroll Lock, just in case you might need it for something.

[CX23882]

FFS, why the hell have they decided to put INS as an Fn function on an oversized DEL key? And fantastic job in putting Del right below the Volume Mute key. That's almost as clever as putting a Fn key on there for 3 functions, or removing the labels from the numpad so you have to remember what job the un-Numlocked keys do.

What do I care though - I'd never buy that thing.

[quadibloc]

FFS, why the hell have they decided to put INS as an Fn function on an oversized DEL key?

Ins switches between 'insert' mode, where characters are added where you type, to 'replace' mode, where when you type characters in the middle of a line, each character replaces the character after the cursor.

This is rarely used. If people want to replace some text with other text, they can select the text they wish to replace with the mouse before typing - and now the replacement doesn't have to be the same length as what it is replacing.

So it's a key that is hardly ever used now, and it causes trouble when hit by accident. Thus, I can almost see this as a good idea.

The way my mind works, though, I don't believe in ever getting rid of or doing without a key. Yet I realize the need to apply restraint to my preferences. So I've come up with this layout:



It has Windows keys. It has extra keys on the cursor cluster and the numpad, for 122-key keyboard emulation (the one on the numpad is needed for use as a Mac keyboard, too). It has the 102nd International key, to the left of the left shift, in case one wishes to use an international layout (and also for 122-key keyboard emulation). And it has four keys over the numeric pad, to be used for the Sun keyboard's version of ACPI keys.

And there are a couple more extra keys, usable as Fn keys, so that the keyboard doesn't need to be made bigger, but the large groups of extra keys found on the Sun keyboard and the 122-key keyboard can be emulated as shifts.

So I can avoid ever leaving anything out, even the Scroll Lock key.

Rather than a non-remappable key, though, some method of changing layouts would have to be discreetly hidden.

EDIT: But this keyboard has a fatal flaw! It's impossible to dye the Esc key red! Ah, well, the color scheme can always be changed, perhaps by switching white on black for black on white.

EDIT: I've changed the control character keys from black on white to a light cream color since the post was originally written.

EDIT: This image has been changed again. Only one key is now added between Alt and Ctrl on both sides, and the keyboard is no longer made slightly less wide than the original 101-key keyboard.

[Lenny_Nero]

Never understood why people go on about keys doing something that they dont want them to do in windows (any OS), but then it is often gamers, others could just turn them off via the registry, or use something like (link) if you dont like the registry.
http://pitaschio.ara3.net/

Using the Alt key and the first letter of the top bar menus gives access (Alt +F file, +E edit and so on) to them, just like they always have since the DOS days, most people have them turned off via the desktop options.

The Windows key has loads of uses, I think I have it mapped to most letter keys, all drives via the top row numbers, I do find it a big miss when its not there as I have to use the mouse for things that I could stay at the board for.

[CX23882]

Ins switches between 'insert' mode, where characters are added where you type, to 'replace' mode, where when you type characters in the middle of a line, each character replaces the character after the cursor.

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but there are times in certain apps where I prefer to use SHIFT+INS to paste rather than CTRL+V.

As for Scroll Lock, a lot of KVMs use this as the switching hotkey when pressed twice in quick succession. I prefer this method over KVMs which use something like "holding down CTRL" to switch.

[microsoft windows]

Personally, I think internet browsers and other programs ought to institute Scroll Lock functionality. It is a uselful feature, except it's just not put into too much software nowadays.

[quadibloc]

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but there are times in certain apps where I prefer to use SHIFT+INS to paste rather than CTRL+V.

I use certain apps where there is no choice. So I use the mouse to choose Insert from the menu, because I can't remember that key sequence. (Terminal emulation programs, where ctrl-V sends a ctrl-V to the remote system, while shift-Ins pastes from the local clipboard.)

As for Scroll Lock, a lot of KVMs use this as the switching hotkey when pressed twice in quick succession. I prefer this method over KVMs which use something like "holding down CTRL" to switch.

For me, what decided me against getting rid of Scroll Lock was the fact that it's used as F14 on a Macintosh, and more people have Macintoshes than Sun SPARC boxes and systems needing 122-key keyboards combined.

[Viett]

It's a shame there's no Menu key. I use mine all the time to spell check. I use it in Word, browsers, and Pidgin to access the spell check without using the mouse.

[itlnstln]

I thought it was interesting that Microsoft went Tenkeyless.

MS has a few tenkeyless 'boards.  The 7000 and 8000, IIRC, and now, this one.

[mech]

If only MS would make a mechanical keyboard.

[itlnstln]

If only MS would make a mechanical keyboard.

If they were Cherry browns, I would probably buy one.  I have never had problems with MS hardware.

[Rajagra]

If they were Cherry browns, I would probably buy one.  I have never had problems with MS hardware.

MS are in a strong position to do something good for the masses by bringing out something like their Ergo 4000 board with decent switches. (Maybe trim the fat off it too.) I'm not sure it's entirely financial reasons that's stopping them, they are probably still naively thinking that soft=ergonomic+comfortable.

If only we could persuade them to create a *really* good board and treat it as a loss-leader like their Xboxes.

[itlnstln]

MS are in a strong position to do something good for the masses by bringing out something like their Ergo 4000 board with decent switches. (Maybe trim the fat off it too.) I'm not sure it's entirely financial reasons that's stopping them, they are probably still naively thinking that soft=ergonomic+comfortable.
 
If only we could persuade them to create a *really* good board and treat it as a loss-leader like their Xboxes.

You don't know how many people I would murder in cold blood for a MS Natural 4000 with Cherry browns.

[quadibloc]

If only we could persuade them to create a *really* good board and treat it as a loss-leader like their Xboxes.

An XBox 360 encourages people to buy video game cartridges for it, which make money for Microsoft. I can't see how a keyboard would serve as a loss leader in the same way, but fortunately a keyboard sold at profitable mass-market prices ought not to be too expensive.

They could have it made at the factory that makes the TVS Gold keyboard, but with a decent layout. So a reasonably-priced keyboard doesn't need to be tied to some other overpriced Microsoft product in order to exist.

[itlnstln]

So a reasonably-priced keyboard doesn't need to be tied to some other overpriced Microsoft product in order to exist.

But I really like MSs keyboard designs...

[Rajagra]

I can't see how a keyboard would serve as a loss leader in the same way

MS needs to think ahead and improve its reputation. They seem unassailable right now, but not many people actually like them. Competing products will always be nibbling at their heels, and one day they will fall.

They made some great game controllers once, and that earned them some respect. Same with some of their early mice. Great keyboards would do the same but with an even larger audience. Imagine if they made boards so good that even Mac users switched to using them. If that isn't a cunningly evil plan worthy of MS, I don't know what is.

[Rajagra]

If you look at what MS actually has been doing and behaving throughout history, it must clearly die a horrible death and all those involved will shovel **** in hell for eternity.

Here's a heart-wrenching letter from a poor soul who never got a break in life...

[quadibloc]

MS needs to think ahead and improve its reputation. They seem unassailable right now, but not many people actually likethem.

This is true. Since hardly anyone seems to care about keyboard quality, though, this doesn't seem the right way to move in changing that.

They should bring back Windows 98 so that people could buy really affordable netbooks that run Windows software if they really wanted to be liked.