Most comfortable typing on MBP but enjoy typing on mechanical most

[vivriel]

Hi all -

Brand new user here - I've enjoyed reading the community's reviews and comments and now I am seeking advice.

Background: self taught typist with a style formulated over tens of thousands of hours gaming on MUDs and programming. I can type reliably at 80wpm using what is mostly a two finger method. However, I have challenged myself to re-learn with touch typing. I grew up using IBM keyboards, own a Cherry MX Blue and a Topre RF.

A month into my touch typing challenge, I find that I can reliably type about 50wpm on Type Racer. However, I find typing extremely fatiguing on my mechanical keyboards. The tops of my hands (presumably the tendons) tire. I definitely bottom out - I don't know if this is a  habit I am going to be able to break. I have tried a bunch of different typing postures (standing, sitting, keyboard placed at ergonomic angles, etc). I only find comfortable typing endurance when I use my MacBook Pro.

I am not faster on my MBP, but I have longevity and the effort of retraining my typing is less distracting. I enjoy the short term experience of my mechanical keyboards more, but am overall more productive on the Macbook.

I wonder if anyone here has had a similar experience? I hope that I just need to build up strength in my other fingers and if that's the case, I may buy a Cherry MX Red board to type with less effort - what do you all think? Or would you just recommend giving it more time and letting the adaptation come (more uncomfortably) on my existing boards. Or is there something else here that I am missing (some other posture change I need to make)?

thanks in advance -

[opensecret]

I haven't experienced this, but I started typing on big mechanical typewriters many decades ago, so I followed a different path from yours.

My suggestion would be to work on one issue at a time.  I'd work on the transition to touch typing with the MBP until you're comfortable in that mode, and then try the mechanicals.  It's possible that once you're spreading the work across all your fingers, the mechanicals won't tire you as much. 

It's also possible that you haven't found the right mechanical board.  Are the Cherry and RF boards equally tiring?  Which RF do you have?

If that doesn't work, maybe you're not destined for mechanical keyboards.  The good news is that you shouldn't have too much trouble selling the two boards

[vivriel]

The RF is 45g uniformly weighted.

I like your suggestion of training the touch typing on the MBP and similar style keyboards. But to be clear, I am not changing two things at once - I have long had mechanical keyboards, but the fatigue problem did not present itself until I moved to touch typing. I just noticed that is non-existent on the MBP.

I'd like to hear if someone found 45g Topre switches more fatiguing than Cherry Brown/Reds for a typist who bottom outs.

[Polymer]

Could just be you're not used to the extra travel on the keys..not to mention overall effort to press the keys compared to your MBP. 

Relatively light and very flat keys mean your fingers don't have to move that much or very far...There's nothing wrong with being far more comfortable with that...

Maybe you'll like using MX Reds better and find them less tiresome...Minimizing your bottom outs might help you or might not...for some it'll reduce any type of jolt your fingers feel..generally at the expense of speed but at the end of the day your fingers might really like it.

One other option is changing your RF for a variable RF which will be easier on your fingers...Since you started from a 2 finger method, those fingers are probably fine..you're probably (I'm just guessing) that your other lesser used fingers like your pinky, are the ones that are tired..the variable does a good job of addressing that as well...

[tbc]

personally, i've never heard of anyone with these specific complaints.

i am in agreement that either the mx red or variable topre realforce would be the smart choice.  i suggest the realforce.

if you go with the red, i would suggest large and soft orings.  although i'm not experienced with orings, so someone more informed could have a better suggestion.

going further, i suggest using dsa on a mx red board.  i am also a mbp keyboard lover and i find dsa keycaps to most closely match.

[Chromako]

If it's at all possible, give the variable RF a try (I don't know about availability in your area, but just in case). I have both the 45g and the variable 87U, and while I use the uniform one during my off-time (it's much more snappy and fun, not to mention better for games), I use the variable on my work computer. For long lengths of typing, the lighter weighed pinky keys are just fantastic. 


Also, double check your wrist angle (they should be straight), the keyboard angle, your wrist-rest (if you use one) and your posture, etc.  Those can all contribute to finger fatigue, making life harder than it has to be.

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

I'm vaguely wondering whether this thread might be better in ergonomics.

I suspect that your fingers are not coping well with the extra travel distance of mechanical switches.  Apple scissor switches have a very short travel distance, whereas Cherry MX switches have 4mm travel, with actuation at 2mm.

Unfortunately you will not be able to reduce travel below 2mm without the switches being permanently actuated, however you could try adding O-rings to the keycaps which will reduce the amount of travel.  If you install 1mm O-rings the switches will only depress 3mm (and still actuate at 2mm).  If you do bottom out consistently that might help a bit.

A softer switch might also help, as Apple scissor switches do not offer much resistance.  MX reds are very light.

The other alternative is to try a variable-weighted Topre board, as Chromako suggested.  These are weighted with stiffer switches in the centre of the board where your index fingers work, pregressively lightening towards the outer edges of the board where your pinkies linger when touch typing.

[vivriel]

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.

I agree that it is probably a combination of the travel distance and actuation force, and think the variable force RF is a good suggestion. I also think it I should give touch typing another month and see if there is any improvement in terms of fatigue before swapping my RF out for a variable weighted one or lighter cherry switches.

Thanks again for your insight!

[Altis]

The MBP keyboard is actually a pretty decent scissor switch keyboard. It doesn't surprise me that it causes less stress and fatigue than the mech boards as its pretty easy to type on.

I'd recommend doing stretches/exercises for your hands. Stress balls or those rubber donuts for building hand strength are good ways. The last thing you want is some kind of injury developing.

I personally find it helps to type a bit slower than would be full speed.

Good luck, and welcome!

[PieterGen]

I think the trick is getting used to touch typing and learning how to relax the hands.

I have the same problem you have. I'm learning to touch type, but the tops of my hands get sore. This is on a (Thinkpad) laptop by the way. I think it's because I subconciously keep my fingers to "streched out" even when I am no typing with them. I should learn how to relax the fingers I do not use.

I know that some beginning runners have this problem in their lower legs. They keep their toes pointing up all the time, even of the leg that they are not standing on. This leads to sore muscles very fast. 

[vivriel]

Checking back into the thread 4 months later. For those of you who find this thread and can relate to the difficulty that I mentioned back in December:

- I switched over to Cherry Red switches
- within a couple of months had my WPM to ~90 on TypeRacer
- now comfortably type on either the Cherry or Topre switches

I have also noticed that the fatigue I felt before I switched my typing technique is gone. I highly recommend taking a few months and relearning to type if you are interested. It is a little tedious and uncomfortable at first, but (for me) well worth the time investment.

However, I still use some sort of improper typing technique when I am coding, which is sadly the minority of my time

[saturnotaku]

For anyone in a similar situation, the Noppoo EC108 Pro might be an interesting choice because of its available 35g capacitive switches.

[CaplockJack]

What is a MBP?

[trizkut]

What is a MBP?

Macbook Pro