RSI ATTACK ! topre time ?? !

[T0fu]

so im a new poster but been a lurker for quite some time. Recently purchased a filco zero tenkeyless with fukka switches, used it for a month and i love it (:its delightfully noisy  and very well made.. actually i think its almost indistinguishable from a coskey alps keyboard from my 486 3.1 days . . they even have the same key shape and print. .    but this is black and actually works on modern computers >.>

anyways the main reason i switched to mechanical keyboards was because i was getting horrible rsi in my first and second fingers. I get to around 60-70wpm using about 3 WASD left fingers  and 2 right fingers and smashing the honeywell clone keyboard(from win 98 days! ) wasnt helping much, and moving over to the filco zero was much better for my fingers . . I'm guessing that the move to the zero would increase my pain free usage by double .. plus its ridiculously fun to type with (:

now ive started learning how to touch type "properly" with slower wpm but much higher accuracy ):, but now i find that my pinkys get the same rsi/joint pains that my first and middle fingers used to experience. except the signs of fatigue show up earlier than with my old technique



So my thoughts are -

Will my pinkys eventually get used to the exercise and stop getting pains? or have i just replaced one burden with another >.>, that said ive been using 4 finger for over a decade and that certainly never helped..

Am i one of the people that would actually benefit from different key weightings on the topre? has anyone else swapped from cherries or alps to the topre and felt that they could go longer on their pinkies? ??

and finally what every person eventually asks, is the topre worth it? I am from Australia so postage is not cheap  $50 USD >.> warranty is non-existent, but ive saved enough money to afford one. I tend to like buying tested quality equipment the first time round rather than updating or replacing every few years or when the battery dies/ is drained.

other keyboards that i have tried so far and my thoughts
logitech dinovo edge - hurts my wrist just wresting on it .. feels- so - so but the filc zero is much better
logitech dinovo illuminated - keys are slippery and acrylic(?) and feels much stiffer than the edge, i hate this board. but my friend loves it and can do up to 140wpm on it all day.. but he also has no sense of taste ... and wears a robe.
logitech media - rubbish
MS ergonomic - rubbish
MS Oem board - so-so .. prefer this to most low profile keyboards and almost every scissor switch, trusty partner for too many years.

cheers in advance for any help you guys give me (:

[majestouch]

I'm not an orthopedist, but it's possible that bad typing form and habits have caused some permanent damage to your joints, more so, or perhaps faster than had you had proper form all those years. Of course, people with good form are not immune to RSI.

In any case, it's probably a better long term idea to spend some money on some x-rays and a doctor's exam before you drop that kind of cash on a new board since switching tools didn't eliminate your pain on the first try.

[DreymaR]

Very comfortable! Webwit will tell you to get a DataHand with that - I haven't tried one so I can't say.

[Rajagra]

Some time after learning to touch-type this year, I started to get occasional pain in my right pinkie. Eventually it just went away.

I think it's because I lacked confidence in moving my whole hand away from the home position, so I stretched to reach Enter and Shift. As I learned to relax more, I moved my hand rather than stretching and the pain went.

Using some ANSI layout keyboards instead of ISO probably helped a bit too.

Oh - and remapping CapsLock to act as Backspace is wonderful, doing that alone could be enough to solve your problem.

[Ulysses31]

I used to have carpal tunnel problems from typing too quickly; slowing things down helped to relieve it until the swelling went down.  You sound like you have a more localised problem with the fingers themselves but it can't hurt to try.  I don't think changing the keyboard will make any difference unless it's of a different layout.  Keys just aren't that hard to press (regardless of their cost) unless you're on a typewriter.  I reckon that finger-tip impact is probably less damaging than constant rapid sliding and flexing of the tendons themselves.

[ironcoder]

If you don't have mouse and keyboard pads, get some good ones right away.

Leaning on hard surfaces compresses the nerves and does damage to your hands.

[AndrewZorn]

not that it isn't ALWAYS topre time...

[rdjack21]

I was not going to comment on this one because I'm very biased because it is Topre all the way for me. But I think if you could find a Cherry brown keyboard locally I would try that first (lighter switches) and see if that helps. If you can't get a brown locally and have to import something any ways may as well get the Topre and be done with it. The risk is that you will not like it and I have to admit those that like heavy switches seem to be split on there like/dislike of the Topre's. Some like them and some don't.

[T0fu]

thanks for the responses guyr. i guess i will wait a month or so longer and see (:

[effnish]

Part of the pain with the pinky fingers may be the result of learning to touch type.  I noticed a lot more fatigue and joint stiffness when learning the colemak keyboard layout even though I've been touch-typing since grade school. Some of the fatigue was the result of spending more time typing and some of it was because of a tendency to be a little more tense during the learning process.  After a few weeks the pinky pain may go away as it adapts to the new work load and you relax more while typing.

If you're learning to touch-type you may wish to try something like the colemak keyboard layout.  I find that it's much more comfortable to type on for long periods of time and it may be less painful for you.  As for keyboards I can't really help you there as I am still very new to the "elite" keyboard lifestyle.

[DreymaR]

Oh - one general advice against RSI-oid problems: WORK OUT!!!

Do light (lightest?!) load, lots and lots of reps (a good hundred if you're fit for it?!) to build circulation and small musculature, and loosen up. Make sure you work all the way from your deltoids and down to the wrists and fingers! Many problems either start in or get stuck in the shoulders, so you don't want your circulation to be impeded up there because that's ultimately the supply to your poor pinkies.

Back when I had real RSI, I got ergophysiotherapy and it helped me so much I've never had RSI again! And that was even before I switched to Colemak and typing became lovely.

[hyperlinked]

TOfu, as a former physical therapist (physiotherapist if you're in Dreymar's part of the woods or outside the USA in general), I think the wisest advice so far has come from Majestouch and Ripster. It's beyond the scope of anyone here to give you what really amounts to medical advice and there are so many things that could be contributing to your symptoms. As Ripster said, it's a little premature to call it RSI though any pain in the hand caused by typing probably gets referred to as RSI by a lot of people... medical professionals even.

You mentioned something about resting your wrists which tends to suggest that bad form may be a factor. That might be the best place to start. Either study up on typing form or get someone who knows a lot about typing to evaluate what you're doing. There are so many things you could be doing that are contributing to your pain and despite the best of intentions, nobody here can provide accurate advice without taking a full survey of your habits and medical history.

The only reason why I'm not suggesting that you go see a medical professional right away is because for these kind of things it really helps to be able to tell the doctors and specialists the specific sort of things that are giving your problems unless you're lucky enough to have access to someone who's a specialist in treating computer work pain and injuries.

A friend of mine once came to me asked for some exercises to help with some thumb pain he was having. I asked him how he was getting the pain. He showed me. It was from keying "ALT+F4" with the same hand. Instead of giving him exercises, I pointed out that he could simply just use his right hand to old down ALT and his left hand to press F4. Your problem could be just as easy to address or it could be a lot more complex. None of us have insight into where on that continumum you're at.

It's possible that a different kind of keyboard or a different key layout could have helped my friend, but it wouldn't have addressed the root of the problem and likely would have just forestalled him developing the same problem in a different way. He actually had pretty decent typing form. He just had a few very bad habits that he wasn't aware of.

[urlwolf]

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Very comfortable! Webwit will tell you to get a DataHand with that - I haven't tried one so I can't say.

Dreymar, what's the credits for that pic? Can I use it in a blog post? Thanks!