Razer Orbweaver thumbstick placement RSI

[Camineet]

Hi all,

I've been using most recent product revision for League of Legends nearly half a year.  The functionality offered in League /w this product is the most effective I've found after a lot of trial and error.  It's really quite nice.

Problem is the placement of the thumbstick which over time causes RSI. I'm prone to tendonitis, but any user should eventually develop the same thumb tendonitis as I have.  The reason is that when the user rests hand on the device, the thumb must be extended outward (wide/to the side) to near it's max range. It doesn't matter if you slide the thumbstick assembly near or far, your thumb still has to extend down and outward to the side to near its max range to sit on the thumbstick.

Neutral position thumbtip with hand at rest away from computing or gaming is nearly touching side of index finger (try it).  But when resting hand on Orb device, user's thumbtip is at nearly max range sideways away from index finger.  This extension, held for an hour or two of daily gaming over the course of months, eventually causes a tendonitis RSI in the ligament that's stretched.

My League career is now on hold (not the first time for various finger and thumb issues) because of this tendonitis.  The only solution is another device, which doesn't exist (haven't tried G13 because my fingers need mech switches, and King's Assembly still isn't available), or to mod this one.

The mod solution would require bringing the thumbstick assembly rotated upward and around quite a bit to bring the thumbpad higher, closer to fingers, and into suitable orientation.  To see the location I mean by this, just put your hand on the Orbweaver, remove your thumb from the thumbpad, relax thumb muscles entirely, and observe where thumb is.  Thumbtip will now essentially be pointing at the 20 key, and will be very close to fingers.

I have no modding experience, so I'm basically just starting to research the possibilities while trying to figure out how to play Smite /w controller as a way to give my whole League control scheme a rest (great, now I can't ping effectively).  I'd really like to return to League.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[tbc]

out of curiosity, how big are your hands?

i imagine the situation is still unoptimal, but less bad, for larger hands.

[Camineet]

I wear a medium in gloves.

[Camineet]

My thinking at this point is becoming as follows.  Human hands just aren't suitable after early adulthood for clicks and keystrokes all day at work and then the same in the evening on games. 

I'm just looking forward to the gaming population aging in the next decade and companies like Razer and Logitech to serve the demand of all of the now 20 year olds who are perhaps unwittingly misusing their hands.  Only time will tell if I am just unusually prone to tendonitis RSIs, or if in fact all of this PC work followed by gaming in the same day year after year is going to have a widespread effect on hand-health for numerous users to the extent that it is acknowledged in the commercial market by peripherals and accessories like input devices that are exceptionally more ergonomic than things like the Orb or G13, etc.  All I can do is hope for that day. 

At this point, it isn't just the thumb problem described in this post.  It's anything that causes minute repeated trauma over time.  So, even the mech keys in the Orb aren't light enough for me to use night after night after typing on Cherry Reds all day. 

Honestly, if I weren't committed elsewhere professionally, I'd like to start a company called Zero Impact Gaming to address all of this stuff with some truly low impact gaming peripherals.   But whatever...  Just have to look forward to the market handling for me what I cannot. 

Thanks for listening GH community.

[tbc]

have you posted in the ergonomics forum btw?

[Camineet]

you're right it would be better placed in ergonomics forum.  Can I get a mod to just move the post?

[user 18]

you're right it would be better placed in ergonomics forum.  Can I get a mod to just move the post?

Moved.

Usually just posting in your thread that you want it moved can result in it sitting around unnoticed for some time -- it's good practice to PM a mod, so they know you're looking to have the thread moved.

[nomaded]

Have you considered switching to using just the left half of an ErgoDox? You won't have the D-pad, but it'll allow you to rest your thumb in a more neutral position (at least that is the case for me). The normal ErgoDox isn't meant to be used as just the left half, but people have modified it, so it's do-able. The Infinity ErgoDox is designed so that both halves can be used independently. An ErgoDox will probably cost more than the Orbweaver, and require you to assemble it.

[Oobly]

Yup, the Orbweaver thumb joystick is in a bad position, and you're right that the best position would be essentially at the corner of the 20 key, but modding it to be there is probably not going to be very easy.

One option is to simply remove the thumb piece and add another d-pad / joystick to the right spot with hotglue and it's own controller, perhaps something like this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9426 and a Teensy 2.0 with code from here: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_joystick.html

You can also replace the switches with MX Reds if you like. They'll fit right into the plate and PCB as the Razer switches are MX clones.

[Camineet]

grateful for replies.  starting custom build thread. future guidance greatly appreciated.

[Melvang]

Link to said thread please?

[jacobolus]

I think wherever it is placed and however it is oriented, a thumbstick is not super ergonomic when your fingers are otherwise in position to type on a keyboard-like input device. When holding a game controller, the hand is curled halfway to a fist, and this gives your thumb a lot more mobility than when fingers are in a typing position.

Though to be honest, I think thumbsticks in general aren’t the most ergonomic design: the side-to-side axis of thumb motion is very easy, but the forward-back axis is not all that natural.

[Camineet]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74038.0

[Camineet]

jacobulus, agree much

typing position is part of problem indeed

[Oobly]

I think wherever it is placed and however it is oriented, a thumbstick is not super ergonomic when your fingers are otherwise in position to type on a keyboard-like input device. When holding a game controller, the hand is curled halfway to a fist, and this gives your thumb a lot more mobility than when fingers are in a typing position.

Though to be honest, I think thumbsticks in general aren’t the most ergonomic design: the side-to-side axis of thumb motion is very easy, but the forward-back axis is not all that natural.

Agreed. What would be better is a bowl-shaped trackpad mounted perpendicular to the thumb tip so you move your thumb up/down and in/out (towards and away from your hand). Or some other mechanism that detects those movements.