Force ratings: Alps vs Cherry

[macguy80]

Hopefully some of you can help clear something up for me.

I own a cherry Clear keyboard. I love it, but I'm not fully accustomed to it yet, and it does get tiring after a bit.

Right now, I am typing on an Apple Extended Keyboard II with dampened white switches. My fingers just fly across them and don't get tired. The force is rated around 70 grams.

If stock clears are rated at 65 grams, why do I find 70 grams less tiring? Am I missing part of the equation? I must be. Thanks!

[Jotokun]

In MX Clears, the weight ramps up after the actuation point. In ALPS switches, the weight drops.

[CPTBadAss]

In MX Clears, the weight ramps up after the actuation point. In ALPS switches, the weight drops.

Remember that as you press down on MX Clears, the force ramps up to 100 cN.


From here

The Alps switches doesn't drop off, it just doesn't increase as dramatically as MX Clears.


From here

Also remember that the Alps activation point is higher up than MX switches so it feels different when you type. Also if you don't bottom out that changes things.

Finally remember that the tolerance band on MX switches can be pretty dramatic. If you check the datasheet from Cherry, the tolerance is +/- 0.7 ounce of force or about 20 cN. And there is a rumor that the Cherry MX molds haven't been maintained so the tolerances may have drifted even more and caused more variances. If you don't have new Cherry switches, your switches may feel different because of usage.

[Melvang]

the tolerance is +/- 0.7 ounce of force or about 20 cN. And there is a rumor that the Cherry MX molds haven't been maintained so the tolerances may have drifted even more and caused more variances.

I didn't know that Cherry made their own springs in house.  I figured they would outsource that to a spring shop, though with the numbers of springs they would need, it makes more sense to make your own.

[CPTBadAss]

I didn't know that Cherry made their own springs in house.  I figured they would outsource that to a spring shop, though with the numbers of springs they would need, it makes more sense to make your own.

Just because they have it in their datasheet doesn't mean they make it in house. All it means is that their suppliers (or Cherry themselves) need to meet that tolerance. I'm not actually sure if they do.

[macguy80]

Remember that as you press down on MX Clears, the force ramps up to 100 cN.

That hit the nail right on the head. I was looking at the tactile point, and not peak force!

I wonder how buckling spring switches figure into the equation. When I emailed Unicomp, they replied that peak force is 72 grams ± 20 grams. That would be an even wider tolerance, no? And yet it still feels nowhere near as tiring as the clears. Maybe my BS board tends more towards minus than plus

[CPTBadAss]

1 cN is about 1 g. So the tolerance is about the same.

Honestly, we could talk about numbers all day but I just go by how things feel to me.

[Melvang]

Also, another thing to consider, 95% of custom springs weights are listed at switch bottom out, this takes tactility out of the equation.  Cherry numbers are at actuation.

[macguy80]

Also, another thing to consider, 95% of custom springs weights are listed at switch bottom out, this takes tactility out of the equation.  Cherry numbers are at actuation.

That likely explains exactly why I overlooked peak force earlier. Thanks!

[Melvang]

And out of the stock Cherry switches, all but one have about the same force curve.  Meaning they all ramp up at about the same rate, just start higher on the graph.  The one exception is springs from clears.  Personally I would like to see a spring with a progressive rate.  The force curve gets steeper as you press down.  Most cars coil springs, off road coil springs, and mountain bike coil springs (the ones that still use coils instead of air anyway).