[IC] The AUNK, a 60% keyboard PCB for all people of the world

[Nahassa]

I was waiting for LeandreN's plate to arrive, but it will take a while and I have another 4 PCBs anyway, so I built today the prototype AUNK:

(Attachment Link)

And it was good that this is only a prototype, as I've found a mistake on the PCB. It still works, but need a hack to fit Cherry PCB stabilizers on ANSI layout, and that's unacceptable on the final version.

I also found a mistake on the basic TMK firmware I originally wrote, corrected that in 5 minutes. Now I need to learn how to program layers, and the different kinds of Fn activation.

And that Esc key was asking to be used on this board.  )

Wow, looks *awesome* Hopefully I'll be using one in my custom build soon...

I already have the plate from LeandreN, now currently waiting to see if you will finalize this project before I loose patience and end up hand-wiring the keys.

Either way, very cool project, especially for us ISO users.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I was waiting for LeandreN's plate to arrive, but it will take a while and I have another 4 PCBs anyway, so I built today the prototype AUNK:

(Attachment Link)

And it was good that this is only a prototype, as I've found a mistake on the PCB. It still works, but need a hack to fit Cherry PCB stabilizers on ANSI layout, and that's unacceptable on the final version.

I also found a mistake on the basic TMK firmware I originally wrote, corrected that in 5 minutes. Now I need to learn how to program layers, and the different kinds of Fn activation.

And that Esc key was asking to be used on this board.  )

Wow, looks *awesome* Hopefully I'll be using one in my custom build soon...

I already have the plate from LeandreN, now currently waiting to see if you will finalize this project before I loose patience and end up hand-wiring the keys.

Either way, very cool project, especially for us ISO users.

Don't lose your patience, go hand-wire your keyboard. This PCB is going to take a while before becoming reality, with all changes I now discovered I have to do.

[KHAANNN]

I really admire your transparency and dedication to perfection

Might re-build all my 60%'s when this PCB launches, the infinity PCB's make me paranoid, they have such teeny tiny SMD's - they have various quality issues, there are claims of out-of-boundary component usages / failures - worst of all the creators doesn't seem to address or investigate the issues, at least not with dedication (tho, other than some paranoid concerns, they are not that bad :)

[fmendonca]

I really admire your transparency and dedication to perfection

Might re-build all my 60%'s when this PCB launches, the infinity PCB's make me paranoid, they have such teeny tiny SMD's - they have various quality issues, there are claims of out-of-boundary component usages / failures - worst of all the creators doesn't seem to address or investigate the issues, at least not with dedication (tho, other than some paranoid concerns, they are not that bad

They said that they were going to use better QA on the current Infinity drop at MD. For that reason and the fact that there was enough communication from Massdrop regarding the diode issues, I don't agree with you. It's too soon to tell if the current drop will have problems but it seems that they are somewhat commited to avoid them this time around.

[KHAANNN]

I really admire your transparency and dedication to perfection

Might re-build all my 60%'s when this PCB launches, the infinity PCB's make me paranoid, they have such teeny tiny SMD's - they have various quality issues, there are claims of out-of-boundary component usages / failures - worst of all the creators doesn't seem to address or investigate the issues, at least not with dedication (tho, other than some paranoid concerns, they are not that bad

They said that they were going to use better QA on the current Infinity drop at MD. For that reason and the fact that there was enough communication from Massdrop regarding the diode issues, I don't agree with you. It's too soon to tell if the current drop will have problems but it seems that they are somewhat commited to avoid them this time around.

Diode issues are not much of an issue as far as I'm concerned, they might as well be mechanical (damaged during transit etc.), all my 6 infinities have decent diodes, bought one of them second hand, it had a broken diode because of the pre-1.2 rev placement issues

But the resistors/capacitors are more concerning, if you read childofthehorn's analysis, s/he claims the power input should have been better designed to prevent issues and 2 capacitors of the microcontroller circuit are used out of their boundaries - his/her infinity was bricked during normal usage

[3K]

This PCB seems really a great idea, giving so many options to customize! The mini spacebar is super cute!
The only thing I'd change is the design - the awesome face isn't original content I guess...

But still, depending on price, I'd be in for a beta test!

[VinnyCordeiro]

This PCB seems really a great idea, giving so many options to customize! The mini spacebar is super cute!
The only thing I'd change is the design - the awesome face isn't original content I guess...

But still, depending on price, I'd be in for a beta test!

Yeah, people here seems to not like the Awesome face so much. It will still be there, but in much smaller size. And if you look closely, you will see that I combined the Awesome face with the UN logo, so that counts as derivative work.

[flabbergast]

The flexibility of this PCB seems to be truly amazing! 

So of course I'm interested in trying it out

EDIT: One thing you might want to be careful about is the "no components" places on the bottom side, where the "ribs"/standoffs of various cases touch the PCB. For instance I cannot use one of the chinese PCBs that I have (rs60) with an aluminium case that I have, because the alu case has slightly thicker "ribs" than the poker plastic case, so they touch one of diodes, which in turn screws up detecting keypresses (some keys fire the whole column).

[VinnyCordeiro]

The flexibility of this PCB seems to be truly amazing! 

So of course I'm interested in trying it out

EDIT: One thing you might want to be careful about is the "no components" places on the bottom side, where the "ribs"/standoffs of various cases touch the PCB. For instance I cannot use one of the chinese PCBs that I have (rs60) with an aluminium case that I have, because the alu case has slightly thicker "ribs" than the poker plastic case, so they touch one of diodes, which in turn screws up detecting keypresses (some keys fire the whole column).

Not only that, but also I'm taking care to not place vias too close to those standoffs.

[flabbergast]

Not only that, but also I'm taking care to not place vias too close to those standoffs.

Cool! I guess you've got much more experience with these things as me, so please keep up the great work! 

[KHAANNN]

The flexibility of this PCB seems to be truly amazing! 

So of course I'm interested in trying it out

EDIT: One thing you might want to be careful about is the "no components" places on the bottom side, where the "ribs"/standoffs of various cases touch the PCB. For instance I cannot use one of the chinese PCBs that I have (rs60) with an aluminium case that I have, because the alu case has slightly thicker "ribs" than the poker plastic case, so they touch one of diodes, which in turn screws up detecting keypresses (some keys fire the whole column).

Not only that, but also I'm taking care to not place vias too close to those standoffs.

As a small feedback, just in case, the tex and vortex are probably the leading 60% case manufacturers and some of the vortex's cases seem to have more standoffs, the slim cnc aluminium ones
So it might be a good idea to check that case too if you haven't done that already, but I have a hunch you did

[Findecanor]

I would like to see a split space bar as an option ...

[VinnyCordeiro]

I would like to see a split space bar as an option ...

As I said before, I can't please everyone.

[faxe]

Seeing that I have trouble fitting my handwiring in a 60% case, this is perfect for me. Do want!

[KHAANNN]

Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)

I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something

I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%

[VinnyCordeiro]

Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)

I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something

I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%

I'll see what I can do.

[jdcarpe]

Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)

I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something

I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%

Dedicated cursor arrow keys on a 60% keyboard? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

Seriously, though, learn to love the HHKB arrows.

[KHAANNN]

Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)

I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something

I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%

Dedicated cursor arrow keys on a 60% keyboard? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

Seriously, though, learn to love the HHKB arrows.

Arrows are the most used keys for me, it would be stupid for me to put them under a modifier, some people don't seem to use them much, in that case it makes some sense

It's either 60% with arrows or a TKL for me, I would rather have the 60% with arrows (and I do, and I love it)

[VinnyCordeiro]

Status update: I have withdrawn LED support from the AUNK. As a matter of fact, there are many other PCB's out there with a better support for them.

That means that I will never support LED's? No, it means I will not support them for now.

Right now I'm in process of debugging the TK78-R, so I'm not really working on the AUNK, but it seems that ALPS switches support can be done without much hassle. I will probably need to redo a few traces, but that's ok.

I'm in contact with a fab house that have built-in group buy support on their site. For a ~$50 board they require about 20 PCB's, so I think it is doable. Let me know if you guys are interested on a GB right now.

[user 18]

Does that mean there are no LEDs on the AUNK? Not even a caps lock indicator LED?

[KHAANNN]

Status update: I have withdrawn LED support from the AUNK. As a matter of fact, there are many other PCB's out there with a better support for them.

That means that I will never support LED's? No, it means I will not support them for now.

Right now I'm in process of debugging the TK78-R, so I'm not really working on the AUNK, but it seems that ALPS switches support can be done without much hassle. I will probably need to redo a few traces, but that's ok.

I'm in contact with a fab house that have built-in group buy support on their site. For a ~$50 board they require about 20 PCB's, so I think it is doable. Let me know if you guys are interested on a GB right now.

Dropping led support is a good move IMO, leds cause a lot of issues for little to no gain, I'm guessing they cater more to the US market where people enjoy flashy lights more than usual (I see a lot of keyboards with leds and regular keycaps, leds pulling ~0.5A just for aesthetics, such a waste, such a strain on the host device)

I will join if this layout is supported: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (ignore the colors) - as far as I see, only the bottom row needs to be modified/improved
I've been using this layout for some time now, it's the layout that I settled with, IMO, it's the optimal layout for those who need the dedicated arrows and like to use a minimal 60% keyboard

[VinnyCordeiro]

Does that mean there are no LEDs on the AUNK? Not even a caps lock indicator LED?

A single LED for Caps Lock is doable, a full keyboard lighting isn't, at least for now. I need to do more tests to improve brightness without frying USB ports on the process. 

[user 18]

Does that mean there are no LEDs on the AUNK? Not even a caps lock indicator LED?

A single LED for Caps Lock is doable, a full keyboard lighting isn't, at least for now. I need to do more tests to improve brightness without frying USB ports on the process. 

That's fine with me 

Will likely be in for at least one unless the CAD takes another huge dive.

[VinnyCordeiro]

Will likely be in for at least one unless the CAD takes another huge dive.

I fully understand you, Brazilian Real is falling down for months, and we also have a political crisis together with the economical one.

[a-c]

Could you break out the unused i/o pins to pads so we can easily access them? Don't have to be in a fixed header or anything, just pads wherever they can be easily placed, through holes would be great.

[VinnyCordeiro]

The fab house answered. I can set a campaign in the next few days if people are still interested.

The campaign will be run directly by CircuitHub. The idea is similar to Massdrop: you go to the campaign's site and purchase a PCB. If the minimum quantity is reached, the PCB's are manufactured and delivered to you by CircuitHub.

I will set the goal to 25 PCB's, less than that and it will be too expensive (I'm thinking about shipping costs added to the PCB fabrication & assembly). And remember: you will receive only the PCB and you will have to flash tmk firmware on it. I'll make available an standard basic firmware, but anything more elaborated must be done by the buyer.

[Arvid]

I am still interested in 1 or 2 PCBs.

[AKmalamute]

I will set the goal to 25 PCB's

 Do they do price tiers, like Massdrop? 25 sounds like a good base floor number, but I think we could hit 50, too. 35 for sure.

 Do you have to pay anything to try? You could put it up at 50, and if that fails you can take it down and re-offer it at 30's price ...

 So, like mass drop I'll need an account on their site?

[VinnyCordeiro]

I will set the goal to 25 PCB's

 Do they do price tiers, like Massdrop? 25 sounds like a good base floor number, but I think we could hit 50, too. 35 for sure.

I asked that last week. No, they can't do price tiers. But they are developing an alternative where they don't need to set a goal and the prices goes down automatically with a higher number of buyers. It isn't ready yet and they have no estimate to finish it.

Do you have to pay anything to try? You could put it up at 50, and if that fails you can take it down and re-offer it at 30's price ...

No, I don't pay anything. I just design the board and let it be sold. They run the GB entirely on their side. But the boards are only made if the goal is reached/exceeded.

So, like mass drop I'll need an account on their site?

I really don't know that for buyers.

[VinnyCordeiro]

LeandreN's plates and Gateron switches from the group buy arrived these days, so I could build more keyboards (remembering that those are the revision 3.1 of the AUNK, the group buy would be made from the revision 5 or 6 of the PCB):



Leftmost board is the first one, that I had already built with Gateron Blue switches. The other 3 uses Gateron Black switches. The 2 leftmost keyboards uses original plastic Poker cases that I bought from members of GH, the 2 rightmost uses Chinese generic cases bought at Tao-Bao (through a proxy).

Keycaps, from left to right:

• Tai-Hao ABS doubleshot (bought at Massdrop), Awesome face cap bought at KeyPop;
• original Cherry G80-3000 keycaps with GMK Triumph Adler spacebar (the original one had a strange stem location);
• Tai-Hao PBT doubleshot (bought from a member of GH);
• Ivan's GMK Dolch with EliteKeyboards Cherry Red Esc (doubleshot) and GMK Triumph Adler Caps Lock keycap. My Dolch set was one of the leftovers, so I don't have many caps; for instance, the non-stepped Caps Lock and the 2.25u Shift. Numpad 0 is doing the honors as the left shift while the new shift is coming from EliteKeyboards (yellow cap with black legends; I'd like a cap with white legends, but can't find them for sale).

Only the Dolch board uses a plate, the ANSI one. I'm saving the ISO plate for my final AUNK 3.1 PCB, just need the right caps.

Now I need to solve some problems, as only boards 1 and 3 are working properly. The rightmost key column of the Dolch board isn't working and the Cherry board isn't even recognized by the computer, so I couldn't flash it.

PS: Yes, that's a Logitech G510 keyboard with a (now disgusting) protection plastic cover. I still need those macro keys for gaming. But that's my gaming rig, I have another desktop and 2 laptops to use mechanical keyboards...

[StormyMonday]

Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)

I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something

I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%

Dedicated cursor arrow keys on a 60% keyboard? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

Seriously, though, learn to love the HHKB arrows.

Arrows are the most used keys for me, it would be stupid for me to put them under a modifier, some people don't seem to use them much, in that case it makes some sense

It's either 60% with arrows or a TKL for me, I would rather have the 60% with arrows (and I do, and I love it)

Arrow keys and no pesky Caps Lock. Combine that with Alps support and I'll be a 60% convert!!! 

[VinnyCordeiro]

Arrow keys and no pesky Caps Lock. Combine that with Alps support and I'll be a 60% convert!!! 

You may want to check the OP about ALPS support. You probably won't like it. 

[StormyMonday]

Arrow keys and no pesky Caps Lock. Combine that with Alps support and I'll be a 60% convert!!! 

You may want to check the OP about ALPS support. You probably won't like it. 

I know, I know, you can't please everyone.

At least I can dream ...

[VinnyCordeiro]

Dolch board working now. This revision has vias near the screw slots, which were being shorted. Made some MacGyver isolation there and now it is working properly. The newer revisions were corrected and there is no vias near the screw slots. Maybe tomorrow I'll take a look at the Cherry board, but 3 out of 4 boards working isn't that bad for a first prototype.

[neverused]

Are there any of these available or will there be a group buy coming?

[VinnyCordeiro]

Are there any of these available or will there be a group buy coming?

There are 6 PCB's of revision 3.1, an early prototype run to validate my design. The revision 5.1, with all changes I needed to do and all proposed features, is finally completed. Problem is that I don't have the money right now to prototype it and I won't start a GB without this step.

IF the people interested on the board say that it is acceptable to take the risk of a GB without a prototype being made, I can run the GB through CircuitHub in a few days time.

[neverused]

I'd be happy to purchase a 5.1 prototype to help vet the design.

[AKmalamute]

Ordinarily I would be, but I'm making an express effort to not buy things for myself, this close to Christmas.

Come January, I'll go back to normal purchasing habits again.

[ideus]

You could explain better the advantages of your offering over alternative PCBs; mainly, if its final price ends being at 50 or over, that means that it should be very well differentiated from the B-Face, Sprit's or even GON's that are well established, with proven quality and that have prices around fifty US dollars.

[davkol]

It's in the OP and even name of the project: support for layouts, that are impossible with the other PCBs.

[ideus]

It's in the OP and even name of the project: support for layouts, that are impossible with the other PCBs.

By reading it, there is nothing, but the support for JIS layouts that I do not need, that makes me think it would be worth a try instead of a Nerd60 GON, for example. But it is a feedback intended for the OP author, he/she can just ignore it.

[VinnyCordeiro]

You could explain better the advantages of your offering over alternative PCBs; mainly, if its final price ends being at 50 or over, that means that it should be very well differentiated from the B-Face, Sprit's or even GON's that are well established, with proven quality and that have prices around fifty US dollars.

If what you want is a "well established, with proven quality" PCB, then you better buy a B-Face, Sprit or GON PCB. And AFAIK, their prices are for the PCB alone, SMD component soldering costs extra.

Also, this is not a commercial selling. This is a group buy, and you should know that with smaller scale comes higher prices. That's true for keycaps and PCB's as well.

For example: the quote CircuitHub gave me says that if 100 PCB's are ordered (remember: all of them with already soldered SMD components), each one would go for about $40 (+ shipping). At 600 MOQ each pre-assembled board costs $20 (+ shipping). I guess you get the idea.

I could order bare PCB's, with a 50 MOQ they would probably costs between $10 to $15 each, maybe even less. Problem is that many of the components I used on this design are not hand-solderable: they are too tiny (0201 SMD footprint). That was necessary to allow all the features I wanted this board to have, as space was a limited resource, in special on the bottom row.

But, as it should be always said on group buys: nobody is forcing you to participate. If you don't believe on what is being offered, that's up to you and it is OK. Just make the right comparisons: as yourself made clear, there are PCB's out there with more features and proven by time. This is my first venture designing a PCB for a wider audience, all my other PCB's (keyboards or else) were made for my personal use. It's unfair to compare what I'm doing with GON or Sprit.

All that said, the main differential I believe my board offers is a big variety of bottom row options. For those persons who like to add as much custom layers as possible, or for people who lives in countries where those extra keys can be useful (Japan comes to mind), this PCB can provide them a platform they can use.

[davkol]

It's in the OP and even name of the project: support for layouts, that are impossible with the other PCBs.

By reading it, there is nothing, but the support for JIS layouts that I do not need, that makes me think it would be worth a try instead of a Nerd60 GON, for example. But it is a feedback intended for the OP author, he/she can just ignore it.

…and there are people, who would like to get a keyboard with JIS layout or whatever resembles a split spacebar

[ideus]

I really hope you get your venture going.


One nice characteristic of GH is that we have people able to take and provide constructive criticism. It is always good to have more alternatives available for the kind of keyboard we would like to have; therefore, this idea is a very welcome one, the intention of the comment was to encourage the OP to be as explicit as possible on the advantages of the design in order to pull as many interested parties as possible. Truth be told, I do not see advantages in a split space bar; but, I am sure others may, that was something I did not consider when I wrote my fist post in this thread, so, you may have a point there.

[Frigid]

First off, thank you for being active in this process, and answering other people's questions. Now one of my own. This will support some sort of lighting correct? And will it work with a 60% plate like the Sentrant (think i spelled that wrong) or the Leandren?

[VinnyCordeiro]

The project is adjourned. No estimate to when it'll be alive. I thank all the support I got around this project and I'm sad and sorry that it won't come to life as soon as I expected.