Author Topic: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.  (Read 13472 times)

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Offline xeon123

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Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 03:55:04 »
I have a Razer blackwidow ultimate keyboard, ans the mini usb adapter broke. I don't want to put the keyboard to the trash. I want to know where I can buy an interface circuit like this in the photo?

The circuit has the serial number "razer T3-US/KO-87"

Offline rowdy

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 04:09:20 »
If it's a custom thing, your best bet would be to find another (broken) BWU and salvage the PCB from there.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline elttaboi

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 04:22:56 »
i'm gonna guess and say it's impossible to fix. You don't have to throw it away though. Those switches still work perfectly ^^

Offline rowdy

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 04:40:44 »
Alternatively if you're handy with a soldering iron you  might be able to solder a new USB socket on there.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 05:13:03 »
I have a Razer blackwidow ultimate keyboard, ans the mini usb adapter broke. I don't want to put the keyboard to the trash. I want to know where I can buy an interface circuit like this in the photo?

The circuit has the serial number "razer T3-US/KO-87"

Check Taobao. They often have Razers being sold for parts. Ebay also has, but much fewer and further between.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline BlueBär

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 14:16:48 »
The adapter still looks properly connected to the soldering pads to me, could be wrong though, photo is not the best. Did you try a different cable?

Offline Novus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 09 March 2014, 14:19:53 »
Guessing you can't RMA it?

Offline xeon123

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 10 March 2014, 06:42:41 »
The adapter is broken inside. Now I already remove it from the pads.

Offline BrianBotts

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 29 December 2015, 17:08:22 »
Dragging this up from the dead, but I had the same issue, and found a resolution.  Others may have the same concern.

The wires going to that PCB are a standard 5 pin USB header.  The PCB enables NKRO, if you do not need NKRO, you can simply use the USB coming off the keyboard and remove the PCB.

Offline SamirD

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 01 January 2016, 08:15:59 »
Thank you for posting such a simple solution!  I'm sure others will find it useful.  :thumb:

Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 19:25:12 »
Dragging this up from the dead, but I had the same issue, and found a resolution.  Others may have the same concern.

The wires going to that PCB are a standard 5 pin USB header.  The PCB enables NKRO, if you do not need NKRO, you can simply use the USB coming off the keyboard and remove the PCB.

I'd like to necro this one too. I can't find ANY other info about this anywhere, and Razer declined to honor my warranty on a two month old blackwidow chroma TE with the same problem as the OP.

I hope the guy I quoted is still around and he gets a notification that I'm posting this, since I registered just to get some clarification.

Did you do the fix you recommended yourself? If so, how did you do it? Did you cut the white 5 pin cable and splice it into a usb? If so, what kind of usb? I've seen an adapter from 5 pin usb header to usb type A male that seemed like it could work (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V6WD8A/ref=crt_ewc_title_gw_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A28128AMZ00PEQ), but I've never spliced USB cables before and I'm not sure if there's a better option. I can't find any good information on these types of white on-circuit 5-pin cables - definitely no consumer-level ready-made adapters that I can find.

It broke when I tripped over the usb cable and it jerked out of the slot. The very first time this happened it was so damaged it wouldn't turn on. I'm really irritated that such an expensive keyboard has such a ****ty design flaw. Why couldn't they have just built the damn cable into the board like everyone else?

edit: I apologize preemptively if anyone gets annoying notifications about this dead thread, this is just really important to me :) If it would be possible and better to direct message the guy I'll do that.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2016, 19:35:36 by JupiterJesus »

Offline rowdy

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:25:39 »
Dragging this up from the dead, but I had the same issue, and found a resolution.  Others may have the same concern.

The wires going to that PCB are a standard 5 pin USB header.  The PCB enables NKRO, if you do not need NKRO, you can simply use the USB coming off the keyboard and remove the PCB.

I'd like to necro this one too. I can't find ANY other info about this anywhere, and Razer declined to honor my warranty on a two month old blackwidow chroma TE with the same problem as the OP.

I hope the guy I quoted is still around and he gets a notification that I'm posting this, since I registered just to get some clarification.

Did you do the fix you recommended yourself? If so, how did you do it? Did you cut the white 5 pin cable and splice it into a usb? If so, what kind of usb? I've seen an adapter from 5 pin usb header to usb type A male that seemed like it could work (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V6WD8A/ref=crt_ewc_title_gw_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A28128AMZ00PEQ), but I've never spliced USB cables before and I'm not sure if there's a better option. I can't find any good information on these types of white on-circuit 5-pin cables - definitely no consumer-level ready-made adapters that I can find.

It broke when I tripped over the usb cable and it jerked out of the slot. The very first time this happened it was so damaged it wouldn't turn on. I'm really irritated that such an expensive keyboard has such a ****ty design flaw. Why couldn't they have just built the damn cable into the board like everyone else?

edit: I apologize preemptively if anyone gets annoying notifications about this dead thread, this is just really important to me :) If it would be possible and better to direct message the guy I'll do that.

Welcome to Geekhack!

No worries about necroing a completely relevant thread.

Assuming you're referring to BrianBotts, he was last active 30-12-2015, so you might get a response.  You could try sending him a PM, perhaps he'll receive an email notification about the PM (I get an email when someone PMs me).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 07 March 2016, 02:48:35 »
If you don't get a reply from Brian post some pics with the wire connecting the two PCBs and someone will be able to help :)
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:00:24 »
I'll try to cover my bases. I PMed Brian, and I'll post some pics here.

The PCB is connected to the back side of the main circuit board by a 5-wire cable, using the types of connectors you only see when you pry open electronics or on diy arcade stick shops.

Brian said in his post that the cable was just 5-pin USB. The connectors aren't like the type you see on your motherboard usb headers, though, and I feel like those are normally only 4-pin. Since adapters for these weird types of cables probably don't exist, I figure splicing into a cable is the best best.

I could solder a new mini-usb port on, but I haven't soldered since college and the videos of people doing it on youtube make it look very hard and very precise. Those leads are very, very small. Magnifying glass small. However, that would be the cleanest and most permanent option, and I guess learning to solder would be pretty useful, I'd just need a good guide to getting started and what to buy for desoldering, cleaning the old solder and soldering in the new part.

It's really sad that my entire keyboard is dead because a 50 cent part broke. Razer continues to dismiss me after many emails.

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:29:31 »
I recently tried to solder a replacement micro USB connector on to a Kindle Fire, my first time soldering in maybe fifteen years did no go as planned  :'(

I found the USB breakout board on Ebay. Maybe check that out if you want. Ebay - Razer BlackWidow TE/Tournament Edition 87 Keyboard USB Port connector board
Chris Schammert

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 08:12:03 »
If you don't get a reply from Brian post some pics with the wire connecting the two PCBs and someone will be able to help :)

I have no doubt the helpful someone is suicidal_orange himself!  :p
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:25:55 »
I recently tried to solder a replacement micro USB connector on to a Kindle Fire, my first time soldering in maybe fifteen years did no go as planned  :'(

I found the USB breakout board on Ebay. Maybe check that out if you want. Ebay - Razer BlackWidow TE/Tournament Edition 87 Keyboard USB Port connector board

Oh crap! Ebay was the first place I looked, but either it wasn't there or I used the wrong search terms. I'm going to get that ASAP and try it out. Thanks so much, I'll let people know if the sketch replacement part from china works out.

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:28:09 »
I recently tried to solder a replacement micro USB connector on to a Kindle Fire, my first time soldering in maybe fifteen years did no go as planned  :'(

I found the USB breakout board on Ebay. Maybe check that out if you want. Ebay - Razer BlackWidow TE/Tournament Edition 87 Keyboard USB Port connector board
Oh crap! Ebay was the first place I looked, but either it wasn't there or I used the wrong search terms. I'm going to get that ASAP and try it out. Thanks so much, I'll let people know if the sketch replacement part from china works out.
I would read the feedback but afaik the seller and product appear to be legit. I'm glad I could help out
Chris Schammert

Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 18:47:34 »
I really don't know what's happening now.

As far as I could tell, the only problem I had was the broken micro usb connector. I bought the above mentioned replacement circuit board, and I also bought a 5-pin usb header to usb cable adapter, hoping at least one solution would work.

The circuit broken looks identical to the one built in to my keyboard, except my keyboard has the code "1515 on it while the replacement is 1411.

I plugged the new circuit board in and... USB device not recognized. Windows device manager tells me it failed to get the device descriptor. Sometimes it tells me something about a reset failing. It seems random which error I get.

The new circuit board came with the board and the cable to attach to the keyboard. I figured that maybe the cable is ****ed, so I used the cable from my original keyboard to connect it. Still using the new circuit board, 1411. This time I get no error message at all. There's no response whatsoever. Windows isn't even aware that I plugged anything in.

I swapped the cables back and get error messages again.

Next I try the less elegant solution. I plug the header to usb male connection directly into the existing cable (the one that came with the new circuit board), and connect that to the mini-usb via a usb male to mini usb female adapter. I have a direct connection from the main keyboard to the usb plug, with no circuit board in between. I get the same errors about not being able to get the usb descriptor or recognize the device.

Now it sounds like there's a deeper problem that I can't fix.

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 20:08:14 »
Man, that is not good. Maybe re-install the driver files? If that doesn't work maybe you can contact the seller to see if he or she has the 1515 part..

Edit - How did you get the part so quickly? Not CONUS? That was extremely fast shipping from China! Last part I ordered from China took about 33 days to be delivered  :eek:
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 March 2016, 20:15:02 by csmertx »
Chris Schammert

Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 18:46:13 »
I'm trying to contact the seller, but I won't hold out hope. eBay sellers tend to ignore customers once the transaction is done, at least in my experience, unless the buyer opens up a case against them.

I don't know this for sure, but I've had stuff take anywhere between 3 and 40 days to get here from China. I suspect that the package is thrown onto the soonest departing boat for the US, and if you're lucky that boat leaves tomorrow. I'm just making stuff up here, though.

Brian implied that bypassing the usb connector board entirely should work - but it doesn't. To me that either means that you *need* the board present to tell Windows the keyboard is a USB device, or that there is something wrong deeper down in my keyboard. I don't see how that could happen, as the only thing that broke was the set up pins in the mini-usb connector, and I have handled the keyboard very carefully. I've never fried a piece of electronics while opening it up and looking around, so this would be a first if that were the case.

If it turns out that this is unsolveable, can anyone point me to a some info about reusing the parts? Maybe a guide on stripping the switches for sale, or a guide on building your own keyboard for noobs, or in general any ideas to make this not a complete loss. Those switches are the expensive part, and they're all in primo condition, it would be a waste to throw them all out. I can't see an obvious way to remove them though - I imagine soldering is involved.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 March 2016, 19:15:26 by JupiterJesus »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 19:40:42 »
The internal connector wire is using standard USB coloured wires, that's why Brian didn't give any details.  Cut the end off a random USB cable, attach the metal bits from in the connector to the wires and plug them back into the plastic housing in the original order and you're done, as long as you don't need NKRO.  Unfortunately it sounds like they've changed the pinout on the replacement otherwise the internal cables should be interchangeable and produce the same results.  If you've put power through the data pins there may be some real damage done...

That was the easy fix but now you've bought a board lets try and make it good as new.

If I'm understanding correctly you also bought a USB mini/micro socket to internal header cable, so that's good to test the keyboard itself is still functional - are the wires on it in the same order as the pics above on the keyboard end?  Pretty sure it was a Razer mouse someone wanted to swap the cable on but the data pins (white and green wires) were the other way round from standard.  No damage done if these are swapped it just won't work so hopefully that's the problem - if so swap them and it should work.


When you say it errors when you plug the new circuit board in was that with the keyboard attached?  If so what happens if you try the board on it's own?  If it was unattached it might be generating it's device ID from the keyboard so it makes sense that it failed, same if it was connected but the wires were wrong.


So many ifs, buts and maybes, it's hard to discuss things which are really obvious when they're in front of you when I can't actually see them, if that makes sense!
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 16 March 2016, 14:52:18 »
The internal connector wire is using standard USB coloured wires, that's why Brian didn't give any details.  Cut the end off a random USB cable, attach the metal bits from in the connector to the wires and plug them back into the plastic housing in the original order and you're done, as long as you don't need NKRO.  Unfortunately it sounds like they've changed the pinout on the replacement otherwise the internal cables should be interchangeable and produce the same results.  If you've put power through the data pins there may be some real damage done...

That was the easy fix but now you've bought a board lets try and make it good as new.

If I'm understanding correctly you also bought a USB mini/micro socket to internal header cable, so that's good to test the keyboard itself is still functional - are the wires on it in the same order as the pics above on the keyboard end?  Pretty sure it was a Razer mouse someone wanted to swap the cable on but the data pins (white and green wires) were the other way round from standard.  No damage done if these are swapped it just won't work so hopefully that's the problem - if so swap them and it should work.


When you say it errors when you plug the new circuit board in was that with the keyboard attached?  If so what happens if you try the board on it's own?  If it was unattached it might be generating it's device ID from the keyboard so it makes sense that it failed, same if it was connected but the wires were wrong.


So many ifs, buts and maybes, it's hard to discuss things which are really obvious when they're in front of you when I can't actually see them, if that makes sense!

The header adapter I bought is this one from sewell: http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-designed-motherboard-external-connector/dp/B000V6WD8A

The wires on the adapter are colored red,white,green,black,black. The wires that connect the keyboard and the usb circuit board are also colored red,white,green,black,black. The 5 pins from the header adapter slide right into the end of the white header connector in the pictures, and the wires are in the same order, so I plugged it in (bypassing the usb circuit board). I made sure to match the wire colors on the male and female parts. Of course, just because the colors are the same doesn't necessarily mean the colors mean the same thing between manufacturers, but it seems likely that they would.

Here's a few pics of the different configurations I've tried. Both configurations generate the same error - usb device not recognized/device descriptor request failed. Note that in both cases, if I use the internal header cable that came with my keyboard, I get no connection whatsoever. No error, nothing appears in device manager, nothing. If I use the internal header cable that came with the new usb board on ebay, I at least get an error message from windows acknowledging that something was plugged in. The two cables are identical, except the "new" one has black heat shrink tubing on it, while the old one used green tubing. You can see the old cable and usb connector board in my original pics, and the new cable and board in the pics below.

Bypassing the usb circuit board. It goes keyboard pcb header -> internal header cable -> sewell adapter -> usb to mini-usb adapter -> mini-usb cable
131261-0

With the "new" 1411 circuit board. eBay seller claims there should be no difference between 1411 and 1515 (he got back to me, says the board was tested working before sale). It goes keyboard pcb header -> internal header cable -> SF 1411 board -> mini-usb cable, obviously.
131263-1

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 16 March 2016, 14:57:38 »
Good know that the two numbered parts are interchangeable
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 17 March 2016, 19:21:02 »
The wires are in the same order but in your first pic the red one is towards the front edge of the keyboard and in both new pics it's on the back edge.  The small PCBs look the same so in theory that means when you plugged in the new one with the new cable it should have fried, but that's the combination that still results in the computer seeing it?  Strange.

I would still says that's what happened though, else it would work with the original cable.
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 18 March 2016, 19:51:24 »
The wires are in the same order but in your first pic the red one is towards the front edge of the keyboard and in both new pics it's on the back edge.  The small PCBs look the same so in theory that means when you plugged in the new one with the new cable it should have fried, but that's the combination that still results in the computer seeing it?  Strange.

I would still says that's what happened though, else it would work with the original cable.

Wow I did't notice that until you pointed it out. The new cable and the old cable have the same order on one side, but different order on the other side. The new cable has the same order of wires on both sides, while the original cable has the opposite order on one side.

Yes, it is only with the new cable that I get any response at all, but even then windows can't recognize it as a proper usb device, much less a keyboard. The original cable (plus new board) gives no response and nothing appears in device manager.

Could reversing the cable order like that have fried the keyboard itself? Or just fried the usb board? Or both?

The ebay seller has offered to send me a second board to try again (really nice guy, he's really trying to go above and beyond). I want to make sure that if the usb board is fried, that I don't do it again. If the keyboard itself is fried, then I'm just going to desolder the switches and leds and experiment with manually wiring them to a teensy. I haven't found a good resource on wiring up the LEDs, but wiring the switches seems easy (if a bit finicky and time-consuming). Would be even better if there was a ready-made PCB I could buy that fit my backplate and case and supported LEDs, but I don't think that exists.

If I did fry the PCB/main controller, and I could find a replacement PCB on ebay or somewhere, I could probably replace the switches and LEDs into it. Been practicing my soldering and reading up a lot on custom keyboards and keyboard building/repair lately.

Needless to say I will never, ever be buying another Razer product again. I bought the blackwidow over other options because I loved the feel of their "custom" switches when I tested them all out at Best Buy. I wish I'd read up on all of the reliability issues and bad reviews.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 19 March 2016, 17:46:22 »
The USB board is safe, it just sends power to the keyboard.  If that power lands up in the wrong place or the wrong polarity (+ and - swapped, as it looks like it is) the keyboard would be fried, but then it shouldn't register whatever you plug in.  I guess if there's a protection circuit it could just block the power, then it wouldn't switch on so you wouldn't get a message.

What happens if you swap the green and white wires where they plug in to the header cable?  That just might work...
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:08:20 »
The USB board is safe, it just sends power to the keyboard.  If that power lands up in the wrong place or the wrong polarity (+ and - swapped, as it looks like it is) the keyboard would be fried, but then it shouldn't register whatever you plug in.  I guess if there's a protection circuit it could just block the power, then it wouldn't switch on so you wouldn't get a message.

What happens if you swap the green and white wires where they plug in to the header cable?  That just might work...

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Swapping the green and white wires would do different things depending on which cable I use and which end of the cable I swap. I assume you mean the new cable, since it at least gives an error message. Should I swap it on the keyboard pcb side, the usb connector side, or both?

I tried all combinations on the "new" cable: swap green and white on the keyboard end only, the usb board only, and both. Each one produced the same result - windows error message. Note that I did this with the with the cables plugged in the same way as the last few pictures, such that the red wire is on the bottom and the black wire is on the top. It wouldn't matter for the original cable, but the "new" cable can be reversed.

I also tried swapping the green & white on the original cable, only on the connector board side. Still no response whatsoever from that cable.

Also, TIL that you can pull up on the plastic with a thin object and pull out each individual wire from the plastic header housing. It clips in and out! Pretty neat. I was going to ask how I would even switch the wires and I figured this out.
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:25:47 by JupiterJesus »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 07:53:37 »
Yeah those connectors are handy if a bit fiddly.  Sometimes the little flaps break off or deform and no longer clip the wires in so if they don't feel nice and springy you don't want to take them out too many times.  If they're good quality and not old you'll probably be fine, but just thought I'd mention it.

I was thinking connect the green to white and vice versa where you have the jumper wires going into the black header connector on the USB socket cable - just cross the jumper wires making sure they don't short.  If you'd rather do it properly by swapping them in the connector that works too, do it either end of the new keyboard-PCB cable.

If that works you can try that cable into the USB PCB, but best to confirm the keyboard still works first.

The key thing here is that regardless of colours you need the right signals going to and from the right place for it to work so if you swap both ends you've not actually done anything so you were thinking correctly, but the old cable appears to connect the power (red and black) the other way round from the new cable which results in the keyboard not switching on, so the computer doesn't notice it - swapping the data wires (green and white) will not change that :)
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 15:20:36 »
Okay, here's what I did just now. I took the "new" cable and swapped the green and white wires on just one side - we'll call that side A, while side B has the original wire order.

When I plug side B into the pcb (black wire toward the top of the keyboard, red toward the bottom) and side A into the USB header adapter cable, I get nothing. No message, no sound.

When I swap the cable, side A is now in the pcb upside down (red wire toward the top of th ekeyboard, black toward the bottom), side B is in the USB adapter cable. Error message.

In both cases, I lined up the red and black wires from the header cable with the wires on the header socket first, then flipped it and got the opposite result from what I wrote down.

Thus, to make the error message appear while having all the wires match up, I have to plug the new cable into the pcb with the red wire toward the north end of the keyboard, and then match up the red wires along all connections. If I reverse it at any point, it does nothing - just like my old cable. Weird thing is, my old cable should be the standard, since it actually came plugged into the keyboard, and it only plugs in one way - red toward the south of the keyboard, which produces no sound or message.

So after reading all that, I figured I could get the old error message to appear with my old cable by connecting the usb adapter cable backward - red to black and black to red. Indeed it did. It seems that if I try to match up all the power wires they way they're supposed to go, nothing happens, and if I reverse them at any point, I get an error message.

Note that I also get a disconnection sound effect when I unplug the keyboard, after getting the initial error message. Probably doesn't matter.

I don't know which pin on the pcb is ground and which is vcc, but if I had to assume by the fact that the included ribbon cable only plugs in one way, with the red on the bottom, I'd guess that vcc is on the bottom. But, the keyboard only produces a response when I swap vcc and gnd, and is dead otherwise.

I also tried (still using the original cable plugged in with red wire down) to swap the data wires around in every combination and the only one that produced a response was when the cable was left as-is, but plugged backward into the usb header.

Note: there's an LED that is supposed to turn on when the keyboard gets power. I haven't seen it come on since the time I tried to straighten the pins on the usb connector and it flashed on and off intermittently as I wiggled the USB around in the connector. The light does not turn on when I get an error message from windows. I don't know if that means it isn't getting any power, or if the light doesn't come on until it is fully recognized and connected to windows.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 15:40:22 »
Hmm... LEDs usually flash when the computer boots up and first checks for a keyboard, have you tried that?

I'm still thinking you fried it the first time you connected the new backwards cable but it's strange that it still registers at all.  If you've got a loose LED you could test for VCC and ground as it will only light up one way - if it's the same way on both PCBs it was definitely reversed, and that's probably bad.  Don't forget a resistor!

The only other thing to do would be experiment with the original USB PCB - can you see where the traces from the USB port go?  If they're connected to the end of a capacitor, resistor or diode you could solder wires on to those components and connect them to your USB header cable and see if that works with the original cable (put back as it came)
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 20:56:23 »
Funny, I had a breadboard sitting around with a resistor and led so I grabbed it and did some testing.

1) I couldn't light the led using the usb header adapter setup. I stuck a female-to-female jumper on the vcc and gnd pins of the header cable, then attached them with breadboard jumpers to the in and out of the led circuit. I also tried touching the breadboard jumpers directly to the pins of the usb header, directly to the pins inside the usb to mini-usb adapter, and directly to the pins of the mini-usb. At no point could I get the led to light.
2) I was able to light the led by connecting the usb board to usb power, then sticking breadboard jumpers between the red and black connectors of the jumper ribbon cable. vcc is the pin closest to the usb connector and gnd is the opposite pin. Just as expected according to the original cable, since it only goes the one way.

I also don't get why there's any response at all, and only when the cable is connected backwards. According to this, power should be coming through the usb board into the keyboard.

I agree that there probably isn't anything I can do - something on the pcb is fried. Is there any good way to diagnose what part it is? What does one even do when the voltage is reversed? Why wouldn't the mfgr just put in a diode to prevent reverse current? What part of the board does it even "fry"? The IC? The caps? How would one tell if they were dead? A multimeter? Visual inspection? I plan to google a bunch of this too, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. There is no obvious scorching, I never saw smoke, nothing melted or exploded.

My plan at this point is to ditch the pcb and manually wire the switches to a controller board. I have a teensy 3.0 sitting around. I've also considered this mod - http://probably.ninja/keyboard/ to wire the switches to a K800 wireless controller. I have two K800s in my electronics junk storage that had drinks spilled on them and I've wanted a wireless mechanical keyboard for my living room pc since forever.

I actually, just for the hell of it, tried touching my breadboard jumpers to the various leds on the keyboard, including the one under the razer logo and the ones under the keyswitches. Power came through the usb connector board, and I just took the jumpers that connected to the 2 ends of the breadboard led and touched them to various spots. I was able to get the leds to light up in red, green or blue, depending on which pins I touched. So they all seem fine.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 08:39:22 »
You would think a reverse current diode wouldn't be too much to ask for, but as it's internal connector wich you're not supposed to see it, let alone plug anything into it, how could it ever be required?  The finance guy sees an opportunity to save a penny for every 10 keyboards sold, and when you sell as many as Razer do those pennies add up to profit.

What should happen when it fries is the controller chip dies - usually with a puff of smoke and a foul smell.  The switches, LEDs etc will all be fine.  Another reason not to give up...

You say VCC is red and GND is the opposite pin, did you test the other black wire?  USB only needs 4 so it's usually used to ground the shield but this cable doesn't have a shield so it's a normal wire and could be anything.  See if it's connected to ground, if not the original cable had white in that spot with green still in the middle so that actually makes more sense than swapping green and white - that would be red, black, green white black on one end of the new cable with the other left as it came.
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Offline JupiterJesus

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 12:31:35 »
Oh, right. That fifth wire is for USB OnTheGo bs. I always assumed it was a 4th wire inserted right before gnd, but nope. GND is still wire #4, and wire #5 is the onthego ID wire. I googled a pin diagram for 5-pin usb and that's typically how it is set up.

I tried the led lighting experiment with pin #4 as gnd and the usb header adapter setup lit up the led. I then swapped the last two wires going from the internal jumper to the header adapter (I already proved that gnd was wire #5 on the internal jumper ribbon, but gnd is wire #4 on the header adapter cable). The result was the same thing that happens any time I plug it in correctly - nothing. The only time I get any result is when I plug it in backwards, which is the error message.

The mystery here is no longer that the keyboard doesn't work - I'm pretty certain it is fried (I did smell something chemically, perhaps ozone-like, but I figured that was just the smell of the new board I got in the mail and didn't think much of it, as it wasn't that strong and wasn't accompanied by any sound, smoke, spark or fire). The mystery is why windows detects anything at all when I plug a fried keyboard in with vcc and gnd switched. That's like if I took a corpse and swapped their head with their ass and they suddenly woke up and spoke in tongues but nothing else.

Time to start prepping for my first keyboard mod. Should be fun. Hope I don't blow anything up in smoke.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Razer black widow tournament circuit broken.
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 12:58:37 »
As a scholar of USB I was surprised to learn that USB OTG was thought of in 2001 - still a year after the 5pin mini connector was standardised, but way earlier than I thought.  I assumed it was a convenient bodge but there were clearly some visionary people working on it back in the days before colour screens on phones even  Now why didn't Razer just follow those standards, or at least make a consistent one of their own...

I hope you've updated the ebay seller to include a warning to check the pinout - I notice the OP has a third revision of the USB board, it has the same pinout as both of yours so it's probably safer for him(?) to advise people to use their original cable.

Good excuse to start modding though, the wireless mod looks fun and someone's done the hard part (mapping the matrix) for you so there's no excuse for smoke :p
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