IBM Model M13

[dgneo]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-M13-Clicky-Keyboard-TrackPoint-II-92G7461-13H6728-1996-Maxi-Switch-/252287259734?hash=item3abd7e1456:g:jdYAAOSwuYVWpUR2

BIN for $175

[ander]

Just to be clear: This one comes with a box, but it's used. Are used M13s really worth that much now? 3–4 times as much as regular Model M's? I've lost track. Is it just because of the trackpoint thing, or because there are fewer of them?

I wasn't trying to make a "track" pun there, BTW. Well, maybe some lower-quality part of me was, but I'm not paying attention to it and I discourage you from doing so either.

[nubbinator]

The most I've seen one go for recently was $150, but they usually go for less than a good M from what I've seen.

[klennkellon]

I don't think the M13's are worth it, the build quality is lower overall and the key printing is pad printed.

[ander]

Interesting... They are still going for over well over $100, with the occasional better deal slipping through.

I don't think the M13's are worth it, the build quality is lower overall and the key printing is pad printed.

Yeah, but lots of people like them, and there are persuasive arguments for valuing them, as I learned when I started this thread last year.

If pad printing is well done, there's no reason it should wear out with normal use. If it does, it's most likely from not washing one's hands before sitting down to type. (I understand it's a good idea before sex, too—although now that I'm in my 60s I'm a lot more interested in typing.) I've had lots of PP boards over the years, and typing with clean hands, I never saw a single PP legend get worn. Fingers are soft. Dirt isn't.

Finally, while I can't control what anyone else does here, I don't like the idea of criticizing people's Great Find posts. When someone takes the time to come here and tell us about a deal that seems good to them, I believe we should (a.) appreciate their trouble; and (b.) use our own judgment and experience (and further research, if necessary) to decide, on our own, whether it's a deal for us or not. No matter how much more we may know than someone else, picking on them for trying to be considerate seems mean-spirited—or at the very least, like we have too much spare time.

[ander]

That is, unless it's about something like this.  :?)

[ed_avis]

The trouble is that the M13 trackpoint isn't that good.  In general I think they made some sense for 640x480 screens but on higher resolutions, or multiple monitors, it just takes too long to push the pointer where you want it to go.  (There are two different trackpoints, the original IBM one and a reimplementation by Lexmark/Unicomp, but even the better of the two is of limited use.)  The same applies to the M4-1 in my opinion, I love the idea of using it, but a mouse is so much easier in practice.

As for pad printed keys, I popped the keycaps off my black M13 to put them on an F122 instead - plus some blank black keycaps from Unicomp for the extra square keys included on the 122-key layout.  (Sadly the space bar is not compatible, and I don't have black Shift or Enter keys for the F122 layout.)  Most of them have held up well to daily use over a few years, but the C key is noticeably worn.  The quality of the printing, even before it may be worn off, just isn't at the same standard as a usual Model M or F.

I see no harm in turning a Great Find into a general discussion of the merits of a keyboard.  I think a Great Find can be because it's interesting or unusual - even a notoriously crap board like the IBM 'Chiclet Keyboard' could be a valued item for collectors.  It doesn't have to be a universally loved keyboard at a rock-bottom price, and pointing out the differing opinions of the item for sale isn't a criticism of the original poster.  Much more disheartening for them would be if nobody replied.

[E TwentyNine]

The most I've seen one go for recently was $150, but they usually go for less than a good M from what I've seen.

They almost always go for more than an equivalent M.

I don't think the M13's are worth it, the build quality is lower overall and the key printing is pad printed.

The build quality is higher than other M's of the same time period.  It's barrel plate has extra supports due to the stresses of the trackpoint and the whole thing feels a bit more solid.

Pad printing is never as high quality as dye sub, but it takes a lot to wear down the legends.

[klennkellon]

Interesting... They are still going for over well over $100, with the occasional better deal slipping through.

I don't think the M13's are worth it, the build quality is lower overall and the key printing is pad printed.

Yeah, but lots of people like them, and there are persuasive arguments for valuing them, as I learned when I started this thread last year.

If pad printing is well done, there's no reason it should wear out with normal use. If it does, it's most likely from not washing one's hands before sitting down to type. (I understand it's a good idea before sex, too—although now that I'm in my 60s I'm a lot more interested in typing.) I've had lots of PP boards over the years, and typing with clean hands, I never saw a single PP legend get worn. Fingers are soft. Dirt isn't.

Finally, while I can't control what anyone else does here, I don't like the idea of criticizing people's Great Find posts. When someone takes the time to come here and tell us about a deal that seems good to them, I believe we should (a.) appreciate their trouble; and (b.) use our own judgment and experience (and further research, if necessary) to decide, on our own, whether it's a deal for us or not. No matter how much more we may know than someone else, picking on them for trying to be considerate seems mean-spirited—or at the very least, like we have too much spare time.

it's not good pad printing, it smears.

i have no source, so i could be wrong.