Author Topic: Keyboard Roof  (Read 7972 times)

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Offline jsharp768

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Keyboard Roof
« on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 06:09:02 »
I'm interested in buying a keyboard roof for the Filco board I will be buying soon. I like to keep my keyboards clean and dust free, so it seems to me that a keyboard roof would help. I want a nice roof though, not some cheap, plasticy looking one.

What is your recommendation? The one in the above link is sold out, so obviously I can't buy that particular one.

Offline ironcoder

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 07:56:32 »
The roof for Filcos is overpriced, doesn't fit well, and expensive as hell for what you get. I would definitely not buy another one (I bought two the 1st time around.) The sides are completely open and so it doesn't really protect your keyboard from dust. I haven't proven it yet but I suspect over time they will wear the finish off the keyboard housing.

If I could suggest improvements I would make one that fit properly and was closed on all sides and had some kind of liner (felt, neoprene, something) along the bottom edge so it wouldn't mar the keyboard. I feel the material is a good grade of material, it's just a sloppy fit and not much more than a rectangle of plastic. Definitely room for improvement. I would also suggest offering a smoked finish, the clear starts to look bad quick. I clean mine often because of it.

I don't know what to suggest to you, before I saw these I had never heard of the idea which is why I bought them. If there are other choices I'd like to see them.

Otherwise a towel or a piece of saran wrap is a better value. It will keep the dust off and won't scratch your keyboard and when it gets dirty you throw it in the washing machine or trash, respectively.
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline jsharp768

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 10:33:13 »
Alright, thanks for the replies. Saved me a few bucks and some frustration :D

Offline exia

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 14:39:40 »
you know you are obsessed with keyboards when you are thinking of getting a keyboard roof. what are you going to get next? a keyboard sponge bath kit?

Offline jsharp768

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« Reply #4 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 14:48:51 »
Quote from: exia;146572
you know you are obsessed with keyboards when you are thinking of getting a keyboard roof. what are you going to get next? a keyboard sponge bath kit?


They have those?!?!

Seriously though, I hate dust in between my keys.

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #5 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 15:02:28 »
When you have a black keyboard, the dust shows up quite prominently. Plenty of people don't really like that.
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #6 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 16:43:40 »
When sunlight falls across your desk, it's time for the dust brush every durn day. Nothing like a sunbeam to find the one spec on that new piece of pristine gear.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #7 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 19:18:58 »
hey, let's face it: the keyboard roof industry has nowhere to go but up.
keyboards!

Offline majestouch

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« Reply #8 on: Wed, 30 December 2009, 19:53:33 »
Quote from: ironcoder;146498
The roof for Filcos is overpriced, doesn't fit well, and expensive as hell for what you get. I would definitely not buy another one (I bought two the 1st time around.) The sides are completely open and so it doesn't really protect your keyboard from dust. I haven't proven it yet but I suspect over time they will wear the finish off the keyboard housing.

If I could suggest improvements I would make one that fit properly and was closed on all sides and had some kind of liner (felt, neoprene, something) along the bottom edge so it wouldn't mar the keyboard. I feel the material is a good grade of material, it's just a sloppy fit and not much more than a rectangle of plastic. Definitely room for improvement. I would also suggest offering a smoked finish, the clear starts to look bad quick. I clean mine often because of it.

I don't know what to suggest to you, before I saw these I had never heard of the idea which is why I bought them. If there are other choices I'd like to see them.

Otherwise a towel or a piece of saran wrap is a better value. It will keep the dust off and won't scratch your keyboard and when it gets dirty you throw it in the washing machine or trash, respectively.


Hi ironcoder, thanks for your opinion.

These roofs are designed to the millimeter to fit FILCO fullsize and Tenkeyless keyboards. How do they not fit well? How should they fit better?

The sides are open because the FILCO keyboards have a curved frame housing, matching this in acrylic or pretty much any other material would require $$ that unfortunately isn't justified by the low demand for keyboard roofs. I use a full size roof on a lesser used PC and it does a good job keeping the large majority of falling dust off the board, so the small openings on the side don't seem such an issue for dust...if you're looking for a complete splash-proof enclosure made of acrylic (for one particular mechanical keyboard on the market), then you should be prepared to pay more. This is mostly an enthusiast item, so it's probably not going to escape low volume production.

As far as the price goes, what should a piece of hand assembled, hand polished acrylic cost? The first revision of this item was a very small batch and it is made in America so it carries a price that reflects the cost of labor and materials in the USA for a custom item. Further revisions will also be made in the USA.

I haven't done a scratch test, but I would say that acrylic only slightly edges out ABS on a hardness scale so any wear to the texture of FILCO housings would be slow; plastic on plastic surfaces are going to polish each other eventually anyway under this circumstance. In any case I have been looking for a suitable felt or soft contact material for the edge in the next revision of the roofs, but the intention is primarily for traction.

I agree with people on the bubbles, these are nasty, and I'm making sure they aren't present in the next revision when these come back in stock. As of this writing the price is $26, which for a piece of hand glued and polished acrylic cut to the millimeter (and produced in a quantity that reflects the demand) isn't such a bad deal in my mind. Regardless, the next revision will also be produced more efficiently and this will help reduce the end cost,  adding in a soft contact material for the edge might keep the price around the same, but there may still be room for an overall $ reduction.

Is a "smoked finish" like a sandblasted finish? The market for roofs is rather small, adding another process like this will increase the price.

Offline ak_nala

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 00:39:24 »
Plexiglass sheets are available in all kinds of tints, textures, colors and finishes.

I think the "smoked" he means is a dark-brownish tinted clear plex that is relatively commonly available last I checked. As it's part of the plastic itself (a translucent dye added to the plastic during manufacture - not an extra layer like on car window tinting), no additional labor should be involved, only the slightly extra cost of the tinted plex itself (though that should be minimal).
« Last Edit: Thu, 31 December 2009, 00:52:06 by ak_nala »
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #10 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 01:23:27 »
Quote from: ripster;146745
I'm too lazy for keyboard roofs.  I just brush the keyboard every so often and shake upside down.


Gravity is a free and effective cleaner.
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Offline maxlugar

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 01:25:46 »
Quote from: jsharp768;146490
I'm interested in buying a keyboard roof for the Filco board I will be buying soon. I like to keep my keyboards clean and dust free, so it seems to me that a keyboard roof would help. I want a nice roof though, not some cheap, plasticy looking one.

What is your recommendation? The one in the above link is sold out, so obviously I can't buy that particular one.


I bought 3 roofs from Elitekeyboards.com:  one full size, one medium and one for my HHKB Pro 2.  All 3 are flawless and really enhance the look of my 104-key Filco, Realforce 87U, and HHKB.  

You can find soft vinyl form-fitting keyboard covers on the web which effectively protect the keyboard from dust, but they look stupid and nerdy, (I almost said geeky) especially on the newer keyboards.

The roof specially designed for the HHKB Pro 2 comes with pre-cut self-adhesive felt pads that can be attached to the bottom edge surfaces.  The pads provide better traction and prevent the keyboard from being scratched.  Gotta love that Japanese attention to detail!  The HHKB roof travels with my HHKB when I'm on the road.

Perhaps I was just lucky to receive roofs with no bubbles...   :)
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Offline Rajagra

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 07:20:33 »
Maybe it's best to think of these as 50% dust cover/impact shield and 50% display case. If all you want is protection, something like a bar mat would do the job - and while typing you could put it under the keyboard or roll it up as a wrist rest.


Hmmmm.... Braaaiiiiins!

Offline jsharp768

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« Reply #13 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 09:04:48 »
Well it's settled: not getting the roof. Not because of the fit or the bubbles, but because I have no place to put it when I'm not using it. It'll just get in the way.

Offline maxlugar

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 13:39:25 »
Quote from: webwit;146762
I would never buy that HHKB Lite roof for my HHKB Pro II, it has a hole in it!


OK, perhaps "flawless" was a poor choice of words.   ;)
Emperor of the IBM 84-key AT Model F Darkside

Offline ironcoder

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 14:30:53 »
Quote from: exia;146572
you know you are obsessed with keyboards when you are thinking of getting a keyboard roof. what are you going to get next? a keyboard sponge bath kit?


No, that's what shop vacs and dishwashers are for. :yield:
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #16 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 14:34:31 »
When I need to clean my keyboards, all it takes is a 5 minute craigslist stop. I can guarantee any of you that, right now, no matter where you live, there is some pervert close by that would gladly lick your keyboard clean for NO CHARGE.
keyboards!

Offline itlnstln

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 14:37:03 »
Quote from: spolia optima;146839
When I need to clean my keyboards, all it takes is a 5 minute craigslist stop. I can guarantee any of you that, right now, no matter where you live, there is some pervert close by that would gladly lick your keyboard clean for NO CHARGE.

With the economy the way it is, there are people looking for 'board chow just to eat.


Offline ironcoder

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« Reply #18 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 14:39:34 »
Quote from: majestouch;146703
These roofs are designed to the millimeter to fit FILCO fullsize and Tenkeyless keyboards. How do they not fit well? How should they fit better?

I don't know how that can be or what it was measured against, but for example, the roof when fitted over the keys has 2 or 3 mm of reveal on both top and bottom, slightly less so on the bottom than the top. That isn't objectionable, what I mean by not fitting well is I would like to see it rest more firmly against the upper and lower rows of keys on the outside edges. I think the fact that it's loose is more likely to cause rubbing in the finish over time- when you set the cover over the board it slides down to rest against the top row of keys, which supports it.

Quote from: majestouch;146703
The sides are open because the FILCO keyboards have a curved frame housing, matching this in acrylic or pretty much any other material would require $$ that unfortunately isn't justified by the low demand for keyboard roofs.

I have no way of knowing any of your costs but I can't believe you can sell a good keyboard for 100 dollars and that it costs 26 percent of that price to machine a plastic cover closed on all four sides.

Quote from: majestouch;146703
I use a full size roof on a lesser used PC and it does a good job keeping the large majority of falling dust off the board, so the small openings on the side don't seem such an issue for dust...

It is an issue for dust, I live in the desert mountains and I know of at least one other of your customers here on the forums who lives in a similar environment. Also, anybody using the keyboard in any kind of shop or industrial environment would have the same issues.

Quote from: majestouch;146703
if you're looking for a complete splash-proof enclosure made of acrylic (for one particular mechanical keyboard on the market), then you should be prepared to pay more. This is mostly an enthusiast item, so it's probably not going to escape low volume production.

I think it's already priced too high for what we get. However, as we have shown, we are willing to pay for something oustanding. I didn't complain about the 40 dollar wrist rest. I made some observations on it here a few months ago. I think it's a damn fine piece. It reeks of quality...that's the kind of gear people on the forum like owning.

Quote from: majestouch;146703
As far as the price goes, what should a piece of hand assembled, hand polished acrylic cost? The first revision of this item was a very small batch and it is made in America so it carries a price that reflects the cost of labor and materials in the USA for a custom item. Further revisions will also be made in the USA.

I don't know what it should cost, probably whatever you can get. I think for the price it's not a good value as is.

Quote from: majestouch;146703
Is a "smoked finish" like a sandblasted finish? The market for roofs is rather small, adding another process like this will increase the price.

I meant something with a smoked tint. It would show off the cover to better advantage and also keep the sun off keyboards when not in use.
« Last Edit: Thu, 31 December 2009, 19:17:00 by ironcoder »
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline spolia optima

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 14:55:42 »
What this country needs is a good five cent manganese keyboard roof with radium trim.
keyboards!

Offline ironcoder

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« Reply #20 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 14:59:40 »
Don't forget an arc welder to set the sonofa***** ablaze.
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline ironcoder

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« Reply #21 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 15:00:55 »
Quote from: jsharp768;146781
Well it's settled: not getting the roof. Not because of the fit or the bubbles, but because I have no place to put it when I'm not using it. It'll just get in the way.


That's what the top of your case is for. I stack the roofs on the top of one of my towers and put a pair of headphones on top of that.
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline majestouch

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« Reply #22 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 17:21:44 »
Quote from: ironcoder;146845
I don't know how that can be or what it was measured against, but for example, the roof when fitted over the keys has 2 or 3 mm of reveal on both top and bottom, slightly less so on the bottom than the top. That isn't objectionable, what I mean by not fitting well is I would like to see it rest more firmly against the upper and lower rows of keys on the outside edges. I think the fact that it's loose is more likely to cause rubbing in the finish over time- when you set the cover over the board it slides down to rest against the top row of keys, which supports it.

This extra 2-3mm is to leave enough "play" that you have a little room for error when you set the roof down so that you don't actuate any keys by accident, additionally the keyboard housing is at an angle, so gravity naturally draws the roof down and this extra 2-3mm makes the front edge of the roof flush with the front edge of a FILCO keyboard, which is my aesthetic opinion. Even without the "play" gravity would still pull the roof against the top keys.

Quote
I have no way of knowing any of your costs but I can't believe you can sell a good keyboard for 100 dollars and that it costs 16 percent of that price to machine a plastic cover closed on all four sides.

It is an issue for dust, I live in the desert mountains and I know of at least one other of your customers here on the forums who lives in a similar environment. Also, anybody using the keyboard in any kind of shop or industrial environment would have the same issues.

I think it's already priced too high for what we get. However, as we have shown, we are willing to pay for something oustanding. I didn't complain about the 40 dollar wrist rest. I made some observations on it here a few months ago. I think it's a damn fine piece. It reeks of quality...that's the kind of gear people on the forum like owning.

I don't know what it should cost, probably whatever you can get. I think for the price it's not a good value as is.

The roofs are made in the USA (as stated on our web), labor costs a bit more here than it does in Taiwan where FILCO keyboards are made. If you don't support American labor, you have the choice not to buy a roof.

The roofs are not molded plastic, they're cut and glued acrylic with <1mm tolerance. Matching acrylic to the curved housing on the sides of FILCO keyboards is costly and there hasn't been anywhere near enough demand for roofs to justify making these things 1000 at a time to bring the price down enough to meet the sensibilities of the Westerners whom are acclimated to the fruits of Chinese laborers that work for <$1 an hour.

This item doesn't have a high margin and was never intended to be a high margin item, even though webwit would like to think the worst of everyone trying to make a buck...I'm not a rich salesman.

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #23 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 17:26:11 »
Quote from: ripster;146842


Show Image


Back in the day these were TOOLS not jewelry.

Lite weight and covers all 4 sides too.  Spiffy.



Image courtesy of ClickyKeyboards.com
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Offline jsharp768

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 18:11:27 »
Quote
This item doesn't have a high margin and was never intended to be a high margin item, even though webwit would like to think the worst of everyone trying to make a buck...I'm not a rich salesman.

Nothing wrong with making money. You already provide a service; we should be so fortunate if you decide to go beyond the call of duty. But really, it sounds like the roofs are already of a high quality. As far as I'm concerned, your website, products, and service already exceed expectations. I ordered my Filco from you last night and also ordered some small things from Newegg. EliteKeyboards shipped first. Surprisingly impressive considering Neweggs reputation.

By the way, when are the roofs going to be in stock again? I may or may not still be interested. They look damn sexy and it'll save me some time/effort cleaning my new Filco. I'm a little indecisive; something that I'm not use too.
« Last Edit: Thu, 31 December 2009, 20:21:58 by jsharp768 »

Offline ironcoder

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« Reply #25 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 19:22:34 »
Quote from: majestouch;146889
This extra 2-3mm is to leave enough "play" that you have a little room for error when you set the roof down so that you don't actuate any keys by accident, additionally the keyboard housing is at an angle, so gravity naturally draws the roof down and this extra 2-3mm makes the front edge of the roof flush with the front edge of a FILCO keyboard, which is my aesthetic opinion. Even without the "play" gravity would still pull the roof against the top keys.


You said that it was measured to the millimeter, I'm just saying you sure can't tell by looking.

Quote from: majestouch;146889
The roofs are made in the USA (as stated on our web), labor costs a bit more here than it does in Taiwan where FILCO keyboards are made. If you don't support American labor, you have the choice not to buy a roof.


That's a disingenuous statement and there's no relation between supporting American labor and buying a roof. Besides, half the people on the forum aren't even American, do you expect them to buy the excuse that the thing costs 1/4 of a new keyboard just because you chose to source it in America?

Maybe you're the one who doesn't support American labor. Why don't you source your keyboards in America instead of from Taiwan? How come the logic works for keyboards but not for keyboard roofs? Inquiring minds want to know. :drum:

Quote from: majestouch;146889
Matching acrylic to the curved housing on the sides of FILCO keyboards is costly and there hasn't been anywhere near enough demand for roofs to justify making these things 1000 at a time to bring the price down enough to meet the sensibilities of the Westerners whom are acclimated to the fruits of Chinese laborers that work for <$1 an hour.


The sad thing is even at 26 bucks a pop they're not meeting Westerner's sensibilities.
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline majestouch

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« Reply #26 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 19:51:38 »
Quote from: ironcoder;146928

That's a disingenuous statement and there's no relation between supporting American labor and buying a roof. Besides, half the people on the forum aren't even American, do you expect them to buy the excuse that the thing costs 1/4 of a new keyboard just because you chose to source it in America?

Maybe you're the one who doesn't support American labor. Why don't you source your keyboards in America instead of from Taiwan? How come the logic works for keyboards but not for keyboard roofs? Inquiring minds want to know. :drum:


If the relation between what you buy to where it is made doesn't matter to you then I think you're an irresponsible consumer. I don't expect any responsible person to buy anything of which the origin, means of production, and merchant they don't fully support.

If I didn't support American labor I'd have these roofs made in another country. I source keyboards from Taiwan and Japan, both countries of which I have no objections to supporting.  I'd like to have an American keyboard, but I've yet to find something that I'm interested in adding to my product line.


Quote

The sad thing is even at 26 bucks a pop they're not meeting Westerner's sensibilities.


The first batch sold out, there is nothing sad about it. So I'm not all that sure what you're getting at. If you're dissatisfied with the product, and you don't have any unreasonable objections (such as it doesn't work well for water skiiing), then please send an e-mail to us so that we can provide formal assistance. Your candor on this topic, otherwise, is digressing into patronization, which I don't care to further entertain.

Offline msiegel

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 19:58:58 »
Quote from: jsharp768;146905
As far as I'm concerned, your website, products, and service already exceeds expectations.


:nod:

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
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Offline jsharp768

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« Reply #28 on: Thu, 31 December 2009, 20:17:35 »
Quote from: ripster;146947
My trackball is American.

I mean, like JOHN WAYNE American.
[snip]


Nice. That made me laugh.

Offline platon

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 02 January 2010, 11:56:52 »
Hello everybody, first post :)

It looks like there are Filco (?) roofs available in the UK. Seriously overpriced though.

Link...

"Keyboard not included" ... lol
Filco Majestouch brown no nkro, Filco tenkeyless white lettered with browns, IBM Model M 1392934 Space Saving \'91 x 2, Cherry G80-3000 LSCEU-2, Chicony KB-5181, SGI Granite 9500900, IBM Model M 52G9658 \'94, HHKB Lite 2 for Mac, SGI RT6856T (rubber dome), Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, CH DT225 trackball, SGI 063-0009-001 mouse

Offline platon

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Keyboard Roof
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 02 January 2010, 14:24:30 »
Thank you ripster!

Actually this post about roofs made me quite sad today. When i got infected with keyboard mania (about 2 - 3 months ago), i started saying to my self "hey i used to have a descent keyboard, the one with the nice plastic cover".

 When shopping for a Filco i looked at the roofs and said "not as nice as that keyboard with the brownish cover i gave away". Reading this thread the same thoughts crossed my mind once more.

And then i saw the attached  pic of the Focus 2001 and recognized it immediately. I used to own one of these and i gave it away, when i replaced my 386sx pc a long time ago.

I did an exhaustive search today on the net for a Focus 2001w with no luck.

Any ideas ? I think i am obsessed now :)
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 January 2010, 14:40:54 by platon »
Filco Majestouch brown no nkro, Filco tenkeyless white lettered with browns, IBM Model M 1392934 Space Saving \'91 x 2, Cherry G80-3000 LSCEU-2, Chicony KB-5181, SGI Granite 9500900, IBM Model M 52G9658 \'94, HHKB Lite 2 for Mac, SGI RT6856T (rubber dome), Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, CH DT225 trackball, SGI 063-0009-001 mouse

Offline platon

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« Reply #31 on: Sat, 02 January 2010, 16:29:39 »
Good to know! I'll do my best to grab one.
Filco Majestouch brown no nkro, Filco tenkeyless white lettered with browns, IBM Model M 1392934 Space Saving \'91 x 2, Cherry G80-3000 LSCEU-2, Chicony KB-5181, SGI Granite 9500900, IBM Model M 52G9658 \'94, HHKB Lite 2 for Mac, SGI RT6856T (rubber dome), Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, CH DT225 trackball, SGI 063-0009-001 mouse

Offline nanu

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« Reply #32 on: Sat, 02 January 2010, 18:33:08 »
When I asked myself why I wanted a keyboard roof, it was due to obscure product lust.  I only knew this after that desire for something new and shiny went away over the course of weeks. This was after I finally got the parts ready to make a DIY strip heater, so I could bend my own acrylic sheet (using an old toaster oven's internals), but I'm too lazy to build that, to make a roof like Majestouch's, but by bending and cutting the sides rather than gluing.

By the time all of this happened, I had already modified my desk itself so that normal operation obscures view of the keyboard. It can be entirely covered directly overhead by the desk top, yet after weeks of using this mod, the keyboard and tray still accumulates debris and crumbs, probably initially stuck to hands, I guess.  That, and the keyboard drawer does occasionally slide out at variable lengths depending on my posture. I don't think I'll rid of my habit of snacking at the desk, so the problem remains.  Maybe I don't need a keyboard roof, after all, since it would neither keep it clean, nor let me view my keyboard underneath.

When I think about the notion of a keyboard roof now, I guess I would want to convert my existing desk further, into a counter top. There needs to be a gutter lined along all sides of the desk top/roof, for when I spill a beverage once per 3 to 5 years.  Therefore it needs a drain; oh, may as well add a sink, too. Later down the line, I could also have a toilet chair and whatnot.  Maybe my computing setup is getting too extravagant.  I'm just not sure at what point, because there isn't yet the next breakthrough means of human-computer interaction.

Offline ironcoder

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« Reply #33 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 12:04:33 »
Quote from: majestouch;146940
If the relation between what you buy to where it is made doesn't matter to you then I think you're an irresponsible consumer.


You made a silly, unsupportable accusation based on a clear and objective criticism of a product you sell. How can a guy whose business is importing keyboards and parts from the far-east accuse his customers of not supporting American labor? That's the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote from: majestouch;146940
I don't expect any responsible person to buy anything of which the origin, means of production, and merchant they don't fully support.


That's all well and good, and it has nothing to do with the fact that the product is overpriced and has faults.

Quote from: majestouch;146940
The first batch sold out, there is nothing sad about it.


Yes there is, you have unsatisfied customers. And your argumentative, knee-jerk response and groundless accusations make you look bad. I understand from your viewpoint there's nothing sad about it, you got rid of the merchandise. If it doesn't matter to you that people are not happy, and if the only way you can counter objections is by slandering people with accusations that if we're not happy to pay 26 dollars for a piece of plastic that should have been priced at about $5.00, then we "don't support American labor" that's as sad as it gets.

Quote from: majestouch;146940
So I'm not all that sure what you're getting at. If you're dissatisfied with the product, and you don't have any unreasonable objections (such as it doesn't work well for water skiiing), then please send an e-mail to us so that we can provide formal assistance. Your candor on this topic, otherwise, is digressing into patronization, which I don't care to further entertain.


You're the one who started slinging mud, and the whole thread is here for everyone to see. Somebody asked about your product, I answered and webwit (for all the love between us) agreed with me. We're dissatisfied, we're disappointed, and speaking for myself, I'm almost as disappointed in your tangential response and attempted table-turning as I am for being stupid enough to shell out 52 dollars for these 2 roofs.

I stand by everything I said in response to the op. The product is not a good value, it has significant shortcomings, which I listed and were agreed to by someone else who also bought them. Nothing in that response was discourteous or insulting. Your accusation is unfounded and doesn't address the real issue, which is that people are unhappy with this particular item and that it falls short of expectations and is a poor value.
In the office: Filco 87 Cherry Browns x 2 (one with coffee damage, recovered) ● Lexmark IBM Model M 52G9658 1993 & 1996

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #34 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 15:04:29 »
When people start posting point-by-point rebuttals, it's usually time to drop pubic back-and-forth and/or take the argument to private PM. I think I can post for most of us that this point there's nothing of interest to the general geekhacker in argumentative techniques.

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I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline jsharp768

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« Reply #35 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 16:32:40 »
This thread is bothering me now. Take it somewhere else.