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Offline Otterclock

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That slippery slope
« on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 04:00:46 »
So..

The Filco seems to have a slight convex curve to it, as do some boards like it such as the abs, and incidentally the gateway dome board I'm using. It's my favorite board right now (the gateway) and I think it's due to the curve, my fingers just fall into place so much better on it, unless I'm foolin myself. Is the curve an illusion, and just part of the case, or is that curve actually translated into the key layout. Say, the Filco vs the Das. Are they the same with just a curved case on the filco, or is it real..
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Offline Arc'xer

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That slippery slope
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 04:24:36 »
I believe the filco uses the key caps as a way to create the sculpted keys. It's not physical even if the board looks that way, it may have a triangular shape but it's not the board but the keys which create the feature.
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Offline TheSoulhunter

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That slippery slope
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 05:41:10 »
Link...
Quote from: nanu;138839
Show Image
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 09:28:41 »
I like curves too but I too sometimes wonder if its my imagination. Hard to find a good board with curved keys, esp with the trend towards flat chiklets now.  I mean not just an angle, but a deep "trough" on the keytop to catch and hold your finger. One of my pet peeves is slippery keys.

The MS 7000 i'm on now is basically flat key tops. The best curves I've tried were on that TVS Gold which had cherries. They felt deep tho I didnt measure it.
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Offline itlnstln

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That slippery slope
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 09:57:41 »
Quote from: wellington1869;176811
I like curves too

Me too...

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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 09:59:09 »
there's no way to talk keyboards without invoking soft porn.
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Offline kishy

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That slippery slope
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 09:59:34 »
I'd say something about Model Ms being sexy but I don't think we want to see a human being with quite that few curves or quite that many squared corners.
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 10:11:08 »
Model M keyboard:



But she's a hard worker and has a nice personality.
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Offline kishy

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That slippery slope
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 10:20:02 »
She still has CURVES welly. Just not going the right direction.
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Offline kishy

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That slippery slope
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 10:48:42 »
Quote from: ripster;176853
You guys ALWAYS go off topic.  Please stay OT.


Bagels.
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Offline quadibloc

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That slippery slope
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 10:56:25 »
Quote from: ripster;176853
You guys ALWAYS go off topic.  Please stay OT.
Hey, I'm still a preclear. I can't stay what I haven't become yet.

However, on topic: nowadays, pretty well all keyboards, whether rubber dome or mechanical, simply have their switches mounted on the PCB such that the keystroke force is perpendicular to the PCB. This is true even of the Model M.

A sculpted keyboard is simply created by the shape of the keycaps.

At one time in the past, keyswitches were mounted on the PCB at an angle, so that the keyboard would be tilted up at about 10 degrees, but the keystroke force would be downwards - and the keycaps would either be uniform in shape, or be designed to provide a sculpted keyboard in that setup.

The chart you showed from a plastics company (recently they changed their site to hide all the keyboard stuff) illustrates all these types of keys - but it has seemed to me that those for tilted switches are now merely historical.
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Offline keyb_gr

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That slippery slope
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 11:08:10 »
Quote from: quadibloc;176858
A sculpted keyboard is simply created by the shape of the keycaps.
That's true for pretty much all the newer designs, but Model Ms and others designed after them have a curved backplate. (Cherry G81s do not, since it would have precluded them from using the same keycaps as G80s.) I guess the Unicomps and the Keytronic M lookalikes are the only such boards remaining in production.

You'd be hard-pressed to find anything more "curvy" than a Model M - save for their 122-key relatives, that is. Most people don't think they're very sexy though... ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 April 2010, 11:11:34 by keyb_gr »
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Offline Phaedrus2129

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That slippery slope
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 11:17:42 »
Quote from: wellington1869;176842
Model M keyboard:

Show Image


But she's a hard worker and has a nice personality.


It may not look so hot, but you gotta admit it's comfortable.
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 12:32:23 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;176868
It may not look so hot, but you gotta admit it's comfortable.


mos def. I could fall asleep on that. ;)
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Offline itlnstln

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That slippery slope
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 12:46:09 »
Baby got back, that's for damn sure.  She better not fall in the water, though.  I don't think they have outlawed whaling in Brazil.*


* I only know she's from Brazil because she is using the flag for a thong.
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Offline ch_123

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That slippery slope
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 13:46:09 »
Quote from: Arc'xer;176782
I believe the filco uses the key caps as a way to create the sculpted keys. It's not physical even if the board looks that way, it may have a triangular shape but it's not the board but the keys which create the feature.


Yeah, Model Ms and Model Fs (and possibly the Sun Type 5) are the only keyboards I can think of that has an inbuilt curve, all the others impart the curve by varying the height and shape of the keycaps.
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Offline mr_a500

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That slippery slope
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 13:53:33 »
Quote from: ripster;176853
You guys ALWAYS go off topic.  Please stay OT.

Show Image

(Getting away from fat asses for a second...)

Can you explain that diagram? Which keyboards use which "family"? I like keyboards that use that "SA family" design, but those are usually very old keyboards from the late-70's, very early 80's. That's like my TRS-80 Model III - very nice sculpted keys. I wish they still made keyboards like that.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 April 2010, 13:55:35 by mr_a500 »
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Offline kishy

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That slippery slope
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 13:55:54 »
Quote from: wellington1869;176903
mos def. I could fall asleep on that. ;)


Or inside of, while being digested.
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Offline Otterclock

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That slippery slope
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 17:02:48 »
berry interesting. So the curve of the filco as opposed to the Das is just the board, and they both have the same key layout/dynamics?

Basically I love this board and I can't put my finger on why (ha, put my finger..ugh).



My hands just fall perfectly onto it and I type effortlessly, whereas the Cherry switch boards I've tried, such as the 11900 or the Compaq 11800, feel like I need to stretch a bit while typing. I don't even need to extend the feet on it, just lay it flat and the slight curve in the board seems to bring it up as high as say, the 11800 with the feet extended..almost.

I really doubt I love the board due to its marvelous rubber domes. Though actually they have an almost mechanical feel. It's heavy, has a metal backplate. Maybe it has a tighter key pitch? I tried measuring and I can't quite tell if it's standard 19mm. I'm curious because I suspect after looking at the similarly shaped Filco, that I haven't given cherry switches a fair shot, and maybe I would like it afterall.

I can't crack the mystery of this board.
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 17:06:33 »
if you ever tire of that gateway, send it my way. I'll pay shipping and send you a starbucks gift card for your trouble ;)  I'm curious about it.
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Offline ch_123

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That slippery slope
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 17:07:43 »
Quote from: Otterclock;177042
berry interesting. So the curve of the filco as opposed to the Das is just the board, and they both have the same key layout/dynamics?


In both cases, the curve is due to the shape of the keycaps.
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Offline Otterclock

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That slippery slope
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 17:29:14 »
Quote from: wellington1869;177043
if you ever tire of that gateway, send it my way. I'll pay shipping and send you a starbucks gift card for your trouble ;)  I'm curious about it.



I have a few of them. They were spares for Gateway packages now they're surplus. Actually I've been thinking ''I really want to send one to Wellington'', since you seem to be of the mindset to do a fair review. PM me and I'll send you a brand spankin new one, and I'll cover the shipping. I'll accept payment in the form of a review; the keys go through a phase where they loosen up so you may want to type on it for a while. It will be a few days before I ship it because I'm home sick from work this week.
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 17:33:17 »
Quote from: Otterclock;177056
I have a few of them. They were spares for Gateway packages now they're surplus. Actually I've been thinking ''I really want to send one to Wellington'', since you seem to be of the mindset to do a fair review. PM me and I'll send you a brand spankin new one, and I'll cover the shipping. I'll accept payment in the form of a review; the keys go through a phase where they loosen up so you may want to type on it for a while. It will be a few days before I ship it because I'm home sick from work this week.


dude, that would be like totally awesome. I'll review the crap out of it ;) PM'ing you in a sec. No rush of course, whenever you feel better.
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline Otterclock

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That slippery slope
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 17:34:09 »
Quote
The screws may be Phillips.

Another option is the Benq. Scissor switch.


I could never get into scissor switches. I think I like a bit more travel. The keys on this gateway actually take a fair amount of force, too. I set 65g worth of nickels onto it before the key collapsed, but being a rubber dome obviously the force drops considerably after that so it doesn't feel like a 65g mechanical.
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Offline Otterclock

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That slippery slope
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 18 May 2010, 12:50:02 »
Ok so apparently I like the DCS family keys. Also I found out the board is a Chicony. It appears that it's something in addition to the DCS that is making this easier to type on for me, though that's part of it, because I have a Lenovo Preferred Pro that is also DCS, but I feel like I need to stretch a bit more to reach keys while typing, so it's fatiguing. This makes isolating the issue more difficult because if it were just about being DCS, I could easily see that characteristic in other boards.

Looking at them both, the Lenovo's keys seem larger, so maybe it's a key pitch issue. Once I find out why my hands fall so well onto the Chicony/Gateway, I'll know how to shop for other boards I'll like, notably mechanical, which is why I'm obsessing over this. Or maybe the answer lies in meds.
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 18 May 2010, 13:05:48 »
Quote from: Otterclock;183561
Also I found out the board is a Chicony.

yea i was a bit disappointed it wasnt a keytronic. That said i've been typing on it for a few days now and its not bad. review coming soon as a i get a free hour (since i want to set up and play with my new magic arm to take pics with it).

Quote
Or maybe the answer lies in meds.

usually does ;)
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline Otterclock

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That slippery slope
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 00:15:34 »
Quote
That said i've been typing on it for a few days now and its not bad. review coming soon as a i get a free hour (since i want to set up and play with my new magic arm to take pics with it).

You dont acutally need to do a review on it. I got a kick out of sending a random keyboard like a nut. My obsession with it is waning a bit. Still it's interesting.
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Offline audioave10

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That slippery slope
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 01:39:29 »
Nice info.
Please, guys, its 1:30 AM here and I don't want any nightmares.
(and I will NOT quote that picture)
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Offline wellington1869

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That slippery slope
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 01:40:37 »
Quote from: Otterclock;183980
You dont acutally need to do a review on it. I got a kick out of sending a random keyboard like a nut. My obsession with it is waning a bit. Still it's interesting.


yea i wish it were a keytronic. i'll probably do the review anyway cuz i want to play with the magic arm ;) Also my ms wireless desktop 7000 is waiting for its review too.  I've put aside some time this thursday :)

Btw you should be getting a little something in the mail.
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