Author Topic: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?  (Read 30612 times)

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Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #150 on: Sun, 19 June 2016, 19:02:57 »
Both Unicomp and IBM Model Ms are the most reliable and solid tool to get the job done.
LOL, no.
Ok, what's the better alternative?
reliable: keyboards, that don't rely on a membrane; e.g., Model F
solid: predecessors; e.g., Model F

…and human factors haven't even entered the equation.

so basically only used keyboards if I follow what you mean when you bring up the f?

Kishsaver is a Model F (F62) and those are made to order afaik. If you find a 100+ key Model F that is new in box buy it! It would be cool to know why Unicomp doesn't make Model F tkl/full-size boards

unicomp doesnt have the tooling. I didnt know kishaver boards were made to order I thought they were just a one time mass buy. I may get one later when I have money for them.  I love my model f right now but new things would be nice too

I guess Unicomp doesn't have the tooling huh?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #151 on: Sun, 19 June 2016, 19:38:09 »
As soon as you have taken a Model M and a Model F apart you will realize that they are totally different in every way and that the only parts that they have in common are the key caps.
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Offline orihalcon

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #152 on: Sun, 19 June 2016, 20:25:15 »
Maybe I have just missed this all along, but it just occurred to me that the ultra classic design was not actually Unicomp's.  They got the old molds that IBM/Lexmark had and I'm pretty sure that they used this mold with a few modifications.  As you can see in the case, there's a cutout for mouse buttons on the Ultra Classic, but they never made one with a trackpoint as far as I know.  Pretty sure they just modified the 5567-C01 case mold:

140168-0

140170-1

140172-2

I think the wiki is wrong.  Says this has brother buckling spring, which it does not.  It's made in the USA per the back label.

As you can see, it has some rather odd features. that strange lift in the back and only on one side.  Plus, it's the only Model M I know of that has a PS/2 port on one side, presumably for a mouse or perhaps an additional keyboard/numberpad.  I actually haven't tried it out yet, but could support both potentially I suppose.  Pretty sure this keyboard was made by IBM or Lexmark given that the 5576 is a rather old machine that wasn't produced after 1995.

My case is cracked/brittle/non PBT as you can see around the trackpoint buttons. If a Unicomp Ultra case looks like it will, I may just cut out the trackpoint button area, I might be doing a case swap, though I'll lose the odd backstand feature if I do that :/  Would be nice to switch the bottom case as well, but then I'd loose the PS/2 port possibly.

Anyone have an Ultra Classic that they can open up and take detailed pictures of the inside of the top and bottom case? I'm guessing you will find changes internally at the spots where the top case is different for where that lift is and the bottom where the PS/2 port used to be :)

Maybe this is elsewhere in this thread, but it seems pretty interesting to me.

Offline supamesican

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #153 on: Mon, 20 June 2016, 08:04:45 »
the endurapro has the trackpoint for unicomp. Looks like that just used that mold for it because it looks identical(I have one) save for the swivel part on the back. I didnt know lexmark made one like that, I thought ibm just did the m13. I wonder how its trackpoint is compared to the endurapro...

Offline lee+

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #154 on: Tue, 21 June 2016, 18:28:20 »
Hm, I'm not at all an expert, but from what I've seen so far, it is not so easy to just modify a mold.  Perhaps the molds for making keyboards are pretty simple so they could just do that, though I have seen molds for simple-looking parts that required to be heated and cooled at the same time, and I've seen things going unexpectedly wrong with molding plastic parts which were apparently simple to mold.  The engineers/designers figured it's easy; the guy working at the molding machine told them they're crazy and it would never work because their simple part is far too complicated.  It never did work.

Offline alh84001

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #155 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 20:21:11 »
I think the wiki is wrong.  Says this has brother buckling spring, which it does not.  It's made in the USA per the back label.

This matches with info on sandy's page which I found just the other day
http://homepage3.nifty.com/sandy55/5576/5576.html#5576-C01

Offline Harper5

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #156 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 23:17:59 »
The world would you recommend something that you can't obtain  Another thing, is you have to order the springs with the hammers anyway.  If you are going to do this, do it right or not at all.  What a bad recommendation to give to someone MyKFCExperience.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 July 2019, 23:42:46 by Harper5 »

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #157 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 23:52:02 »
The world would you recommend something that you can't obtain  Another thing, is you have to order the springs with the hammers anyway.  If you are going to do this, do it right or not at all.  What a bad recommendation to give to someone.

wut are you on about sunny boi?

Offline knightjp

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #158 on: Mon, 08 July 2019, 06:14:39 »
I liked the Unicomp keyboards ever since I saw one being used on a video by Eric S Raymond.
I thought of getting one myself, but then after seeing a few reviews online and reading up a few articles, I kinda lost interest.

I really respect this guy's review...



Offline apastuszak

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #159 on: Mon, 08 July 2019, 08:28:52 »
Unicomp needs a new logo.

And they need to sell a badge you can put in the upper left corner of the keyboard over that rectangle.

Offline brainandforce

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 08 July 2019, 10:20:04 »
Unicomp needs a new logo.

And they need to sell a badge you can put in the upper left corner of the keyboard over that rectangle.

They sell lock light sticker replacements on their site: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/LED

And as far as I know they no longer use the blue logo lock light stickers.

Offline apastuszak

  • Posts: 44
Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 08 July 2019, 12:50:33 »
Unicomp needs a new logo.

And they need to sell a badge you can put in the upper left corner of the keyboard over that rectangle.

They sell lock light sticker replacements on their site: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/LED

And as far as I know they no longer use the blue logo lock light stickers.

I bought those already.  I want a badge to put here.


Offline brainandforce

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #162 on: Mon, 08 July 2019, 15:27:13 »
I believe this sticker will fit in the rectangle. In fact I was just thinking of getting it myself:

Offline apastuszak

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #163 on: Tue, 09 July 2019, 10:22:41 »
I believe this sticker will fit in the rectangle. In fact I was just thinking of getting it myself:

Thank you!  Ordered!

Offline Altis

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #164 on: Sat, 13 July 2019, 18:25:42 »
Unicomp needs a new logo.

They need to actually try.

It saddens me that what started as a project by enthusiasts has been left to crumble so quickly. They don't really seem to care anymore. The potential is there if they would capitalize on it.
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Offline brainandforce

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #165 on: Sun, 14 July 2019, 00:38:15 »
Although I'm happy that Unicomp exists, and that I can get a keyboard from them anytime, there are so many things I would want to change or do if I was in charge (in the approximate order of priority):

  • Redesign the controller boards so that the membrane actually slots into something rather than just allowing the board to rest on top of the membrane. This is the biggest weakness of current Unicomp boards, as keys stop registering when the components slide out of position.
  • Bring back the SSK, and/or create a new 60% layout.
  • Redesign the membrane so that rollover is improved - it's not terrible but there are plenty of optimizations that could be made, especially around the WASD cluster. And especially for the PC 122s, which have one of the worst matrices I've ever seen in a keyboard.
  • Bring back the old IBM keycap font, and fix the alignment issues.
  • Provide an Industrial Gray case option.
  • Better lock light sticker options: simple text labels are the best way to go.

I've been happy with the Unicomps I've used, but there is so much more they can do if they take a harder look at the growing enthusiast market.

Offline ander

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #166 on: Sun, 14 July 2019, 03:44:34 »
Unicomp needs a new logo.

They need to actually try.

It saddens me that what started as a project by enthusiasts has been left to crumble so quickly. They don't really seem to care anymore. The potential is there if they would capitalize on it.

It'd be more accurate to say, "They could capitalize on it if they had the capital."

When that group of employees bought Lexmark's keyboard plant rather than seeing it shuttered, it wasn't to make big profits. If new Model M's were still profitable, Lexmark would've stayed where they were.

By then, the flood of $5 Asian-made membrane boards had "washed away" virtually all interest in BS boards—not just because they were vastly cheaper, but because their quietness made them so much more suitable for business environments.

PC makers were also competing to make everything lighter, sleeker, more compact. Heavy, full-size M's were considered relics.

Unicomp has landed a few OEM contracts as they've chugged along, but they've mostly been quite small. The only one of significant size I know of was making the boards for the Maquette (subsequently GE/Marquette) cardiac test units used at hospitals. But I doubt more than a couple thousand of those were produced due to their specialization and cost.

Otherwise, the only remaining market for BS boards has been the occasional request to replace a IBM/Lexmark Model M that'd stopped working (as it takes a lot of typing to make that happen), and the occasional hobbyist or nostalgic home user.

I don't know what Unicomp's actual production is these days, but I'd be surprised if they sold more than a few dozen boards each week. (You can usually find nearly-new Unicomp M's on eBay, too, when people buy them without realizing they're too noisy to use at work—or even at home, if they live with others [LOL]. That must cut into new sales, too.)

With that kind of volume, Unicomp doesn't have the kind of dough it takes to design and tool up for new products, or even to refine their existing products. (I doubt they could borrow it or interest investors, either.)

Although I'm happy that Unicomp exists, and that I can get a keyboard from them anytime, there are so many things I would want to change or do if I was in charge (in the approximate order of priority):

  • Redesign the controller boards so that the membrane actually slots into something rather than just allowing the board to rest on top of the membrane. This is the biggest weakness of current Unicomp boards, as keys stop registering when the components slide out of position.
  • Bring back the SSK, and/or create a new 60% layout.
  • Redesign the membrane so that rollover is improved - it's not terrible but there are plenty of optimizations that could be made, especially around the WASD cluster. And especially for the PC 122s, which have one of the worst matrices I've ever seen in a keyboard.
  • Bring back the old IBM keycap font, and fix the alignment issues.
  • Provide an Industrial Gray case option.
  • Better lock light sticker options: simple text labels are the best way to go.

Gearing up to manufacture any new product—even something as simple as new plastic labels—is a lot more expensive than you realize. The sales potential must be there to justify it, and there isn't nearly enough interest.

I've been happy with the Unicomps I've used, but there is so much more they can do if they take a harder look at the growing enthusiast market.

With the tiny remaining BS market, the Unicomp guys knew that to keep the factory going, they'd need to make M's drastically cheaper. Maybe you don't realize it, but IBM- and Lexmark-made M's cost several hundred bucks each—in 1980s–'90s dollars! To have any hope of continuing to sell Model M's, Unicomp knew they'd need to redesign them to sell for under $100.

IMHO, they pulled off something of a miracle. I enjoy cycling my Unicomp M's with my IBM/Lexmark-made ones. No, the build and print quality isn't impressive. (The cheaper build was necessary, as I've described. And it beats me why they switched to a crappier text font–but I do know it isn't cheap to keep dye-sublimation printing equipment in perfect repair and calibration.) But they're still delightful to type on. They have their own sound and feel. And maybe I've just been lucky, but none of my Unicomps have stopped working (and they're used ones I restored, not new).

To us, the idea of new 'n' improved Model M's and accessories is exciting, and it's easy for us to imagine crowds of people lined up to buy them. If only that were the case.
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Offline apastuszak

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #167 on: Sun, 14 July 2019, 09:25:31 »
Although I'm happy that Unicomp exists, and that I can get a keyboard from them anytime, there are so many things I would want to change or do if I was in charge (in the approximate order of priority):

  • Redesign the controller boards so that the membrane actually slots into something rather than just allowing the board to rest on top of the membrane. This is the biggest weakness of current Unicomp boards, as keys stop registering when the components slide out of position.
  • Bring back the SSK, and/or create a new 60% layout.
  • Redesign the membrane so that rollover is improved - it's not terrible but there are plenty of optimizations that could be made, especially around the WASD cluster. And especially for the PC 122s, which have one of the worst matrices I've ever seen in a keyboard.
  • Bring back the old IBM keycap font, and fix the alignment issues.
  • Provide an Industrial Gray case option.
  • Better lock light sticker options: simple text labels are the best way to go.

I've been happy with the Unicomps I've used, but there is so much more they can do if they take a harder look at the growing enthusiast market.

Unicom does sell these stickers


Offline apastuszak

  • Posts: 44
Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #168 on: Sun, 14 July 2019, 09:36:05 »
I think the problem Unicom faces is that a LOT of gamers won’t touch them, because they don’t have NKRO.  And gamers are the #1 people buying mechanical keyboards.  Gamers also seem to like tenkeyless and other small form factors.  I really wonder how many units they sell a year and if they have the capital to make any changes to their existing process.

I think it would be cool to see another M2 with decent capacitors. I think the form factor would appeal to people.

You have to remember that we’re buying Model M keyboards for almost half the price Model Ms cost back in the 90s, not adjusted for inflation.   That’s pretty amazing in itself.

Offline no, the other guy

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #169 on: Sun, 14 July 2019, 10:05:21 »
As soon as you have taken a Model M and a Model F apart you will realize that they are totally different in every way and that the only parts that they have in common are the key caps.

And even those ... my Model F has single-piece keycaps, my Unicomp Model M has two-piece keycaps.
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #170 on: Mon, 15 July 2019, 11:55:25 »
If I could throw a IBM case on my Unicomp, it would be awesome.  My biggest complaint about Unicomp (imo) is the cases are flimsier, or at least more creaky.  Do they use a different plastic.  I've been out of the game so long I cant remember.

Edit, forgot the lock light stickers are god aweful ugly.  IBM's is way better.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 July 2019, 11:57:19 by Touch_It »


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Offline apastuszak

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #171 on: Tue, 16 July 2019, 21:57:58 »
I believe this sticker will fit in the rectangle. In fact I was just thinking of getting it myself:

My sticker came in from Poland!

Didn't center it exactly right, and the silver gets lost on the black a little, but still looks pretty good!


Offline Findecanor

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #172 on: Tue, 16 July 2019, 23:38:06 »
I think the problem Unicom faces is that a LOT of gamers won’t touch them, because they don’t have NKRO.
The actuation distance, and RGB! Unicomp wold have to create Buckling Spring RGB Speed switches if they are going to appeal to gamers.

:rolleyes:
🍉