Topre R2 VS. original quality?

[typo]

I imagine this has been discussed before but I could not find it so please pardon me. Is the R2 more cheaply made than the original? I have both and both the Seasonic and Fujitsu RGB which are the same. It seems that the new standard "UB" R2 is in the same case as the RGB now and is definitely cheaper made? Are the keycaps now DS ABS instead of lasered PBT as well? Thank you

[typo]

Okay, PBT keys at least. The non RGB ones do "Thock" out of the box. However the case seems to be the same as the RGB and thus cheaply made? FYI, The RGB can be made to "Thock" with a lot of work and expense. It involves, a new case, new key caps, O-rings, lube...

[rxc92]

I can say that the case quality of the R2 is equal or superior to that of the original series, having owned a 10th Anniversary edition for several years and using my R2 for over a year now. I'm not entirely sure why you'd equate the RGB's casing with inferior quality, as it is the thin ABS keycaps and redesigned sliders to allow LED's to be inserted that affect the feel (specifically the upstroke) of the main one. The case should have no effect on sound, but the new one is more solid and has less flex than the originals. 
 
The keycaps are of the same material with the flawed backspace/enter legends fixed, and with an updated Windows logo. The only other differences are that it uses a standard Cherry bottom row now (1.25u mods) and replaced the Menu key with an Fn, and it has the Volume control keys printed on the front of the arrow keys (as well as the APC if you have a keyboard with it). It is functionally and feel-wise a superior board; even the silencing is more effective. The only real reason, imo, to use the original series is if you prefer the oversized round aesthetic or can't live with the modern bottom row layout.
 
Also, the spacebar doesn't clack. At all. Which is a godsend to me.

[subcat]

I can say that the case quality of the R2 is equal or superior to that of the original series, having owned a 10th Anniversary edition for several years and using my R2 for over a year now. I'm not entirely sure why you'd equate the RGB's casing with inferior quality, as it is the thin ABS keycaps and redesigned sliders to allow LED's to be inserted that affect the feel (specifically the upstroke) of the main one. The case should have no effect on sound, but the new one is more solid and has less flex than the originals. 
 
The keycaps are of the same material with the flawed backspace/enter legends fixed, and with an updated Windows logo. The only other differences are that it uses a standard Cherry bottom row now (1.25u mods) and replaced the Menu key with an Fn, and it has the Volume control keys printed on the front of the arrow keys (as well as the APC if you have a keyboard with it). It is functionally and feel-wise a superior board; even the silencing is more effective. The only real reason, imo, to use the original series is if you prefer the oversized round aesthetic or can't live with the modern bottom row layout.
 
Also, the spacebar doesn't clack. At all. Which is a godsend to me.

the enter legend hasn't been fixed, it's the same as previously. the spacebar is apparently pbt too

[rxc92]

My mistake, you’re right on the enter. The print on some of the other keys in the nav cluster.

[typo]

It seems to me that the case "shifts" even worse than the original one. The wire routing is certainly better. The keycaps are better than the RGB too. Which is why I use GMK on the RGB.

Something odd though. The Fujitsu RGB was more money than the Seasonic now the Seasonic is even more. Now you are talking about a $400+ junk RGB board! I would much rather have the $250 "UB" or PFU. That is, if I were not to modify the heck out of it. Otherwise I prefer the RGB but you are going to dump some serious cash into it to make it a "real" Topre board IMO.

[Polymer]

I don't think the problem w/ the RGB is the case...it is the keycaps and the sliders themselves give it a funny sound...Modded it sounds decent enough..

R2 vs. original...similar IMO....The case is different and less movement but I wouldn't say better per se....I like both....

Keycaps have a similar feel...there is very little between the two IMO...

[typo]

Oh, my take on it was the case on the R2 had some more "movement" in it. It does not really bother me. I use a RGB that is highly customized in a metal case... So it is a completely different animal anyways. I do not really remember what a R2 feels like. I have a few NIB though I could check out. I also found keys are much heavier on R2. 45G is more like 55G on the original. Or maybe that is just me.

[Sup]

Oh, my take on it was the case on the R2 had some more "movement" in it. It does not really bother me. I use a RGB that is highly customized in a metal case... So it is a completely different animal anyways. I do not really remember what a R2 feels like. I have a few NIB though I could check out. I also found keys are much heavier on R2. 45G is more like 55G on the original. Or maybe that is just me.

Could be that the domes got stiffer over time. My HHKB Pro 1 doesn't feel like 45G more like 55G.

[Polymer]

Oh, my take on it was the case on the R2 had some more "movement" in it. It does not really bother me. I use a RGB that is highly customized in a metal case... So it is a completely different animal anyways. I do not really remember what a R2 feels like. I have a few NIB though I could check out. I also found keys are much heavier on R2. 45G is more like 55G on the original. Or maybe that is just me.

Definitely R2 45g does not feel like 55g. 

And the R2 case has pretty much 0 movement in it...and I can't even comprehend how you might think it has more than the original RF unless you've never touched an original..

I'm not saying one is better than the other..but the original case has a LOT of movement...you can twist it...the top can slide around a bit..I mean, not so much where it feels bad or cheap..but certainly isn't tight..whereas the R2 is incredibly tight and has no movement at all..

[Riverman]

And the R2 case has pretty much 0 movement in it...and I can't even comprehend how you might think it has more than the original RF unless you've never touched an original..

Typo's completely right about the R2 case having more movement in it.  If you grab an R2 case at the front corners (by the bottom row), you can make the top of the case bend and slide back and forth a little bit.  The original Realforce keyboards won't do that.  I've owned both, and I noticed the slop in the R2's case pretty quickly.

[shadowku]

Typo's completely right about the R2 case having more movement in it.  If you grab an R2 case at the front corners (by the bottom row), you can make the top of the case bend and slide back and forth a little bit.  The original Realforce keyboards won't do that.  I've owned both, and I noticed the slop in the R2's case pretty quickly.

I've seen R1s that had movement in it. Probably older cases that have been opened a few times, but they still felt very solid overall.
I haven't owned an R2 so I haven't had a chance to flex any.

[typo]

Neither flex IMO. I feel the R2 moves more than the R1 but the R1 does move some too. With the Seasonic RGB now pushing $500, if you count that as "real" pricing. That seems kind of inexcusable to me. Even a regular "UB" R2 which, stock is arguably better than the RGB  for "just" $250 for "Made in Japan" it bewilders me. You do not see Nikon camera bodies moving around? Plus I have read several times the R2 key caps scratch easily. I wouldn't know as I have very short nails. I certainly prefer the shape of the R2 case. Perhaps it is just by it's very nature(the way it clips together) that causes the movement. I have no clue.

As my grail, end game one of a kind RGB Does not have the stock case none of this bothers me anyways. I do have a number of both boards, including unopened ones of each. I like backups. I also find the R2 45g out of the box to be akin to the R1 55g out of the box. Anyone else notice this? However on the R2 I do not find much difference between 45g and 55g as I do on the R1. I feel it is fair to nitpick given the prices
The cable routing, actuation points and Cherry stems are all awesome things to me. Although my case has no cable routing at all. The Paracord on it would be to thick to fit in the stock channels anyways.

One thing I managed, among many other mods was to get 8 actuation points! That to me rocks. Sorry, no pics no one copying it. I paid a fortune to have them build the dies and then destroy them. No one copying me! Selfish, perhaps. My money. You can read about it in many places here though. There are a total of 26 modifications to the RGB board. I certainly cannot complain about mine but now we are talking about 10 Grand(not kidding). It actually "thocks" much more than any stock Topre board. This is what they should be giving you for $250 IMO! The stock RGB is hardly better than, say a corsair and the R2 "UB" or HHKB is just so-so but I do like the case style better. that is my story and I am sticking to it!

[rxc92]

  
Is this a thread to ask actual questions about the case or for you to brag about your 'amazing endgame keyboard that is so much better' in every post? 
 
@Riverman Perhaps that was a one off. My R2 is quite solid and the case has no movement to it regardless of how you move it. Regardless of how you cut it, it's a better case than the original.

[Polymer]

And the R2 case has pretty much 0 movement in it...and I can't even comprehend how you might think it has more than the original RF unless you've never touched an original..

Typo's completely right about the R2 case having more movement in it.  If you grab an R2 case at the front corners (by the bottom row), you can make the top of the case bend and slide back and forth a little bit.  The original Realforce keyboards won't do that.  I've owned both, and I noticed the slop in the R2's case pretty quickly.

That's completely not true.  Holding an R2 right now..doesn't do that.
Holding the original RF right now...the case moves..it always has...it is known to do it.  They both don't have screws holding the top and bottom together..but the way the original is put together, it can slide around...it is known to do it..
You can also torque the original case as in twist it...doing it right now....and putting it right back.

I'm honestly shocked that you're describing the exact OPPOSITE of what I've seen...the only reason I know I'm right is because A.  I'm looking at them right now and B. Because the movement and flex in an original RF is well known..so it isn't just my version...I've also read about people's R2 having less flex and less movement so that all goes with what I've seen.

I don't know what you've ended up with but it is definitely an exception. 

[typo]

I apologize, I did fit in the "bragging" yet again. I am kind of proud of it.

Nonetheless, try the R2 up by the indicator LED's. Mine all move there. Maybe just bad luck? I have no clue. They really do though. I am being honest. Neither the R1 or R2 flex at all on me.

[Polymer]

The original RF twists (not easily but it does). 

People complained about it not sitting flat on a desk...and it just requires a bit of pressing on the corners and twisting to get it to the right position..

This is because it can turn..and twist slightly because of some play..The R2, as far as I can tell, doesn't do that...

I don't consider this a bad thing...to be honest, it feels a bit more premium than the R2...which is solid but a bit thin feeling...tight, strong, but the plastic has a higher pitch sound...The original RF is less tight...still very strong...but the plastic just feels better overall IMO...

[Riverman]

The flex I was talking about isn't twisting.  It's not like when you pick up a keyboard and twist it, or press down too hard in the center and the keyboard bends.  It's when the keyboard is sitting flat on the desk, and you put your fingers on the front corners and press in either direction (push both sides to the right or both sides to the left).  At least on my keyboard, there was some slop between the upper and lower parts of the case.  Honestly, though, putting a piece or two of electrical tape between the case halves probably would have solved that if it truly bothered me that much, or maybe my case was flawed in some way.  The R1 case halves snapped together very solidly and didn't move in that way.  Still, I prefer the way the R2 case looks, and if I end up buying another Realforce somewhere down the road, it will most likely be another R2, or a Type Heaven if they ever start showing up in the used market again.

[Polymer]

That's what the original RF does..but not my R2...or the others I've seen...again, pretty sure others talked about this same thing when the R2 first came out...it fits together tighter than the original RF did..which was known to have this bit of play in the case...

[typo]

You must have to press pretty hard? All of my R1's and R2's sit flat on the desk just fine. I was talking about up by the indicator LED's both versions. The case slides apart just a bit if you move the bottom and top of the case in opposite directions. I do prefer the design of the R2 case. Honestly they are both fine. It is just nitpicking. Although for what it is, and what they cost I feel they should be perfect in every respect. I guess wishful thinking though.

[Polymer]

I don't see any problem w/ how they're made...at first I was a little annoyed at the original RF...but I actually don't mind it...it allows for a little bit of flex when it needs it...but can be pushed back to how it needs to be..and all that lends to the overall feel of the case as well...

I also didn't like the original RF case originally..but I think I actually prefer it to the R2 case...just feels better..and while that extra bit on top used to look stupid...It grows on you I think...the R2 looks ordinary...

That said, I like the R2 as well..APC is neat..although I don't use it at all...and while I don't see any disadvantages to the earlier actuation point, it would make my other Topres feel sluggish...I can see having issues if I had a variable with APC (which I don't and not sure that exists) because of the light keys...

[typo]

APC greatly increased my WPM and accuracy on the highest actuation point. The light keys? the RGB is all 45G. Although as I said the R2 45G feels like R1 55G to me. I am not sure if I am alone on that or others agree. In quick order the thing will get as stiff as Cherry Blacks. About 3 years or so. OH, the GMK's, O-rings-lube and everything else on my custom RGB may have contributed to my better typing ability as well. I am not entirely positive it was just APC. Plus my board is setup with 8 actuation points. If you try to do any more than that it is an open circuit and just becomes infinite. IE, no APC at all then. However my highest is about .2MM. So there are a lot of different things going on there. I cannot say if just standard APC would make much if any difference for me.

Other than that, the cases are not perfect but certainly by no means "bad". Highly unlikely to fail under normal usage. Remember, these are used in offices and banks for many hours a day for years. Us enthusiasts are but a small market segment to them. I kind of doubt any Bankers are twisting their keyboards either. Honestly, both of them are fine I was just nitpicking. The case movement does indeed contribute to the overall good feel. It is not too stiff but rather forgiving for a plate. Almost like a PCB. Don't get me wrong I love them. I have many. Even both unopened. My custom RGB is my end game grail though. I guess if I had to pick one, I prefer the more compact style of the R2. BTW, the RGB DS ABS key caps are nicer than the PBT IMO but do not hold a candle to GMK or Signature plastics. I do in fact like shiny keys but only if they are thick DS.

So that is it. They are fine. They shall suffice. Expensive, yes. Would I like them to be perfect, yes! Are they, no! Does it really matter?, not really very much. It is not like they are falling apart or anything. You do not need to tape them shut out of the box. So they pass, and not just barely either. They pass good. They are simply not "perfect" which was my point. I figured for the money, from Japan they should be. Alas, they fall a bit short of perfection but they are certainly "more than good enough".

[Polymer]

You can have your opinions...

But I see no one talking positively about the RGB keycaps....The PBT keycaps from RF are some of the best stock keycaps you can get on the marketplace..by a lot...and I actually prefer them to my GMK sets..

I have no idea why you keep talking about your RGB board to be honest...You keep repeating the same things about it...In fact, the only keyboard I've actually seen you talk about for the last 2 or 3 years has been your RGB board...

[typo]

Sorry. I only prefer the RGB because of the lights which are on solid white. The PBT caps may be better. I put GMK's on mine. My point was the RGB is a piece of junk out of the box. It must be highly modified to bring it up to the level of a non RGB TOPRE. Which is odd that it is so poor because it is still a made in Japan TOPRE. I am surprised they are willing to put their name on something that poorly built. I guess there, they are trying to compete in a different market. With the likes of Cooler Master and Corsair. However it is $300+. So I really do not understand what they are trying to do there. By the time you are done modifying it, it is so expensive very few people would undertake that AFAIK. Stock it nearly sucks. There are better RGB boards for $100. I really do not know who is buying this, if anyone at this point. even when Sesonic had it for $200 it was grossly overpriced. That was mainly my point really. The standard TOPRE boards are considerably better boards stock and require little or no modification to work just fine. Since I was hell bent on having the lights I bit the bullet. If I did not want the lights so badly I would much rather have a regular TOPRE board in a second. Although even the Regular ones the case does "shift" a little bit but that hardly maters to me. I do not sit there and shift my case all day long. In regular usage it does not shift whatsoever. Oh, yes the stock RGB key caps suck as well. the entire package is one piece of junk. That is, in stock form.

Edit: I just realized I had contradicted myself here on the key caps. It was because it was not what I meant. I was not thinking. I meant it the other way around. I have talked about it for 2-3 years because this is my end-game. I have nothing else left to talk about. I honestly put almost $10,000 into this. I had them build all the custom tools and dies and then destroy them so no one copies me. Which is why I will not post pictures of it. You wil either choose to believe me or not. Obviously though I would not have been talking about it for 2-3 years if it did not really exist, don't you think so? I would personally say my own feeling is I now get much more enjoyment out of this than a stock "UB". I am just very pleased with it. I can understand that it is growing old on certain people. This is nothing compared to out of the box. I took a turd and turned it into gold IMO. I will try to stop talking about it so much. I do in  fact have many "regular" TOPRE boards too. Even unopened ones. I just love TOPRE in general. I think many people do. At least from what I read here. I would strongly advise anyone not to purchase a RGB unless they plan to sink a fortune into it however. Stock you are 100% better off getting a "UB" or HHKB" or even Type Heave, leopold or what have you. If you must have RGB there are better boards for 1/4 the price IMO. If I did not have the money to burn I surly would be typing on a bone stock standard R2. I hope that at least clears that up. Furthermore, my apologies for speaking about it so much. I am like a proud Father but I can see where people are getting tired of it. Mind you  used to do the same thing with DECK until I came to the realization that those too were rubbish. You can only use one keyboard at a time, so I tend to do so. Unlike some people I do not constantly swap out boards. Not that is a bad thing.

Anyways, I figured this thread had come to an end already. So you can shift the cases. Big deal. It is not like that occurs during "normal" usage of them. I also do not personally find that they flex or twist under normal usage whatsoever either. These are just things you can manually force it to do. You can abuse or use anything othen for it's intended purpose. I really have no problem with TOPRE at all. Other than the Stock RGB is grossly overpriced junk. Luckily, all of the non-backlit ones are far from it. YMMV but anyone ever complaining about TOPRE 9 times out of 10 is simply nitpicking. As was I when I started this thread. I sincerely hope we can move on now. Unless the inevitable flames regarding my RGB are about to come again. f so, so be it. I do not mind at all really. I am more than pleased and that is all that matters to me. I understand that perhaps everyone else does not wish to constantly hear about it from me. I have actually posted regarding other things lately. Such as regarding my Embody chair upholstery and issues with my MX Ergo Thumb Ball. Probably not enough to offset my constant speak of my RGB however. I get it. Understood. With any luck this thread has now come to an end. I feel that all that needs to be said regarding the subject at hand has already been said at this point. It is already about to get derailed, which would suggest it is time to move on.

[shadowku]

ZzZzZz what the hell happened to this thread...

[brianjking]

I imagine this has been discussed before but I could not find it so please pardon me. Is the R2 more cheaply made than the original? I have both and both the Seasonic and Fujitsu RGB which are the same. It seems that the new standard "UB" R2 is in the same case as the RGB now and is definitely cheaper made? Are the keycaps now DS ABS instead of lasered PBT as well? Thank you

I've not had a chance to try an R2 Realforce yet. However, I think this thread from TC is a really great comparison.