A recommendation?

[swilly]

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to the mechanical keyboard stuff, but deep down inside I knew I was destined to make it here. From the start, I always hated laptop keyboards due to practically zero travel and no feel.

Now, I got into gaming (HoN, Heroes of Newerth, a game like DoTA), and a friend of mine had a Steelseries 7G. I already had a steelseries Xai mouse, and I like that a lot. I asked my friend if I could borrow his keyboard for a while, testing it out to see if I wanted to get one myself.

While the feel and the travel weren't bad, I didn't like the Cherry Blacks for typing. I started to look more into the types of switches, and I made it to overclock and geekhack.

Wow, I had no idea that there was so much about mechanical switches.

Anyway, I'm really into the feel and the sound, so I figured Cherry browns and blues would be the switch type for me. But then I found out about Topres, and hearing that it was the ultimate mechanical keyboard experience was really appealing to me.

At this point, I don't really have any price preference. If the topre is really worth it, I will bite the bullet and go for it, probably. But then I read that a big part of using Topre is not bottoming out. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess I won't mind learning how to not bottom out, but the piano-playing part of me really likes to raise my fingers up and really mash down on the keys (I don't like laptop keyboards because it really doesn't feel right). But I also know that a key to typing faster is learning how to not bottom out, and if that's the case, then I guess I'll have to learn that...

Is Topre really worth it? Given that I do like a nice sound and a good tactile feel, will that satisfy my needs? On the other hand, I am a student, and a cherry Blue might drive my roommate crazy... (so that might pit the Cherry Brown against the Topre...)

Finally, I do prefer a 10-keyless format (maybe the HHKB2?), and constant key weights (I don't want variable topres, for instance)

Suggestions?

Thanks a lot!
-Swilly

Edit: I should probably take the Cherry Clears into account, though they seem harder to find..

[NamelessPFG]

Based on that keychain that's part of one of SirClickAlot's sinklists, Topre switches feel very much like rubber domes, but more carefully designed with a smoother collapse. This isn't too much of a surprise when a rubber dome IS what provides the tactile feedback. (The spring underneath it might cushion the bottoming-out some, but it's mostly there for the capacitance switching.) The actual difference is one I can't test on that keychain-the actuation point being mid-collapse rather than near the bottom, so you don't have to bottom out. That's the point of mechanical keyswitches, really.

Still, it's not quite my thing, and if you like your switches clicky, Topre switches will probably be too quiet for your tastes.

As for Cherry MX, I'm currently holding the Switch Try Numpad (which I hope to send out soon), which has Brown, Blue, Black, Red, and Clear switches on it.

The Browns feel mostly linear with a barely-noticeable tactile bump; not too different from a friend's Das Keyboard Model S. If you mash the keys hard and fast, you may not even feel it. That's how subtle it is-too subtle, if you ask me. You really need a soft touch to feel it.

The Blues do have an audible click, but it's nothing like the buckling springs in my IBM Model Ms-definitely higher-pitched and more of a thock. Also, the release seems to vary between the switches on the numpad; it feels really light on most of them, but the ones on my new DSI Modular Mac have a very tactile release that also doesn't feel so high up (as in "almost fully released").

You won't like the Reds either (also linear) unless it's the stiff spring resistance of the Blacks that you don't like.

Clears are actually my faves: they actually have a noticeable tactile bump compared to the Browns, but none of the noise of a Blue or buckling spring. Resistance is closer to the Black, but not quite. Good luck finding a board with Clears, though-most Cherry MX board vendors don't offer them.

If the DSI Modular Mac was still $20 off for one eBay vendor and you don't mind the Mac-centric legending and Alt/Cmd (Win/Super/Meta) positioning, I'd feel fairly comfortable recommending the MX Brown version for a tenkeyless, compact (even with the one-inch side bezels) board that isn't too noisy and has some tactility to it. But at $100, I'm not so sure when it's that much closer price-wise to all the other Cherry MX boards.

[swilly]

Ah, thanks a lot!

What I didn't quite like about the Blacks were that they were linear; great for gaming, typing wasn't so fun.

Based on your great answer, it seems like I'll just pass on the Topres; my touch is too hard to probably appreciate the feel.

I'm still a bit torn, because the gamer in me is reminding me that the blacks were great for gaming.... maybe brown really will be the way to go with a combination of 1) a tactile feel (though slight) 2)not too loud and 3) easy to find.

I was looking around on the forums even more, and I saw that Leopolds are making their way to elitekeyboards... with 10-keyless... and probably at a good price. I have a feeling that's the way I'll go.

Thanks a lot Namelesspfg!

-Swilly

[nocturn4l3030]

im a huge gamer myself..fps rts and mmo rpg

i came from a rubber dome and bought a cherry brown first..it was jus too light for me...after a few days i did get used to it and started to get comfy and attatched to it but in the end..i still wanted a harder switch..i do kinda miss it though >.<

i bought a topre 55g and variable weight..since you're used to the piano i reccomend the 55g...i actually think it'll be perfect for you. the only reason why i personally am stickin with the variable weigtht is because the 55g is a tad (emphasize a "tad") too heavy and im not heavy handed at all...i could've definitely got used to it and i actually like it better specifically jus for gaming...but i do type alot too so i stuck with the variable

trust me..dont worry bout bottoming out..i use it like a normal keyboard and what i think is really good about the topres for gaming is that the keboard key gets activated the split second the key gets pushed down..so you almost get faster results

go with the 55g topre...u wont be disappointed. youtube it to see how awesome it sounds too..my 55g is for sale on ebay (bout to end) if u interested too

if you want a lighter switch go with the browns

[swilly]

HRMMMM....

Haha, now you've got me interested in the Topre again..... ugh, you must be some Topre representative, eh? Lol.

Too bad their 55g tenkeyless was a limited edition, i'll have to go used (I don't know why, but I do prefer new... I don't know what happened to the keyboard before it got to me, and new solves that issue).

If I decide to go with Topre, I'll probably wait a bit (email Topre?) and see if another 55g 10keyless is released, or just go with the full sized. Though, I've already gotten used to my laptop (which has no numpad), and I enjoy the comfort of having the mouse closer to my body.

Thanks again!
-Swilly

[Twitchy]

It looks like some places may have the (all 55g) 91UBK (NG51B0) in stock if you're prepared to order from Japan.
http://item.rakuten.co.jp/filco/10000511/

[swilly]

hmm, that's intriguing.

Though it's unfortunate that the layout is the Japanese one, and I usually press the spacebar fairly close to the right side. Also, the problem with ordering from Japan. Though it's sooo good looking too, that I'm slowly getting drawn to it...

Maybe I should just do the 103?

[swilly]

Well, one of my questions is:

How is the 86UB for gaming? I'm a bit apprehensive of the variable keys, but I've read from a user on geekhack that they didn't have any preference for either (he had both the 55g and the variable).

Though, 30g seems a bit light...

-swilly

[swilly]

Hmm, alright, I'm really gearing up to order from japan...

Converting yen to dollar, the cost of the keyboard itself is $251, though does anyone know what shipping is to the states?

Can anyone help me around that site? I am utterly lost

[iMav]

Just order it through beNippon.

[NamelessPFG]

Good luck with getting one of those Topre boards...I figured you would've ordered from EliteKeyboards, but their black 86UB at US$230 is variable, not 55g.

To be frank, the feel of a Topre switch goes a bit beyond "carefully-designed rubber dome" in practice. It's something you'll just have to try for yourself, and I have no idea what force the keychain switch was rated for. (Seems less than 55g, but I never did put any nickels on top to verify that.)

[keyboardlover]

If I had just gotten a Topre in the first place, I would have saved quite a bit of hassle buying other keyboards I didn't need. On the other hand, it did help me narrow down the choices.

[WhiteRice]

The journey is half the fun.

[keyboardlover]

Bruce said Keyboardco would restock 'sometime around Christmas'...

[swilly]

Yea, choices, choices, choices.

That 91UBY does look pretty awesome, but looking at my keyboard, I press the spacebar pretty much right underneath the "J" button, and I'm not too keen on having to skootch over so much just for a keyboard. I'd probably be pressing in between the space bar and the button that has that circle...

The thing is, I've dealt with high-end yo-yos (http://www.flickr.com/swilly if you want to see some crazy stuff, and believe me, there are a lot of collections crazier than mine out there...), high end audio (settled on some JH5 pros, probably not going anywhere in terms of upgrading, at least for a loooong time), and now keyboards. Except that yoyos and headphones are a lot easier to ship around for trading, and keyboards would get costly due to size and weight.

Hard as it is, I would like to get a keyboard and stick with it for a while, and most likely, any of these high ends (since this is my first true mechanical keyboard, not a Steelseries 7G I loaned for several months) will satisfy me, Leopold, Filco, Das, Legend, Topre... etc.

I'm actually trying to stay away from gaming all that much, so maybe I shouldn't have a problem with variable weight.....

I tried the WoW 10-day trial, but finally told myself to stay away; I think there are more things to do that can occupy my time, like type up random stories (esp. if I get an awesome new keyboard, haha.)

Topre and Leopold seem to be the main players in my decision now, since (once EK gets them in stock), those are the brands that should readily have 10keyless keyboards available...

How much does a nickel weigh? I'm going to have to test out my laptop's force required to push the button down to get an idea...

Thanks!
-Swilly

[swilly]

At this point, I feel fairly certain that I will go either the Blue or Brown Leopold once it gets onto EK. After all, I've got to save some money for any future interests....

And I'm sure that the Leopold will satisfy.

Thanks everyone!
-Swilly

[stuiees]

Good luck with your upcoming desition. It is really hard going off others opinions when every switch has it's own unique feel and advantages. You really just have to go for it and hope you find "the one" sooner than later. The cool thing is there are a lot of others in the same boat and it is easy to sell your "like new" boards if you decide you don't like them.

[kidchunks]

Red Pill
Buy a topre board! Discover jebus (some say) and be done with the keyboard adventure!

Blue Pill
Spend 1000+ trying diff switch types gaining some personal experience and eventually buy a topre.

[swilly]

Hmm, you have a point there, about ending up spending a ton on keyboards in the log run, but...

Like Ripster said, if this is my first mechanical keyboard and I'm heavy handed, a topre might not be exactly the best thing to go for right away (I'm on a library computer right now, and the keyboard is one of those cruddy membrane ones, and to be honest, and I'm afraid I won't be able to tell the difference between this and a topre, and esp. since the cost is quite high...)

And I've determined I do like the sound, and the topre just might be too quiet, haha

-Swilly

[RoboKrikit]

I just got a Topre and I really like it.  I have a Cherry MX Blue keyboard that I also really like.  If I had bought the Topre first I would probably be typing on a new Cherry MX Blue now.

If you don't mind the sound you might as well go for something clicky and fun to type on.  You can always buy the more expensive Topre board later.

On the Topre vs. membrane board issue, my new HHKB2 feels nothing like any membrane board I have used, and it's supposed to be the 'weak' Topre in terms of key feel.  The closest thing I can compare it to is the KeyTronic LT boards, which for me were always the ultimate in key feel for rubber.  The feel of the Topre is significantly better than those, to my fingers, and the higher activation point puts it into a completely separate tier in terms of functionality, IMO.

I already decided to buy another Topre (Realforce vs. my HHKB2) for my wife's new computer, since she likes the keys on mine and doesn't care for the loud clicketyclack under her own fingers.

[swilly]

I'm thinking that I'll wait until the Leopolds come out. I'm guessing near the end of January, as I might as well wait until I get back to school (on winter break now)

I'll probably flip a coin on the brown or blue, though knowing me, I'll still be unsure after that. Though I'm feeling certain I'm not getting a Topre, at least not for now. Heck, I might even get a Black (I do love me some good force (60-80g near the end of the press?)

Since I'm waiting till the end of January, I'll still have time...

-Swilly

[ynih]

I just modded my 86UB into all 45g for the main 1~0 and A~Z cluster, and oh my. it's teh sexy.... Thanks RIPSTER and Welly for the tips and wiki's~!

[ynih]

I'm thinking that I'll wait until the Leopolds come out. I'm guessing near the end of January, as I might as well wait until I get back to school (on winter break now)

I'll probably flip a coin on the brown or blue, though knowing me, I'll still be unsure after that. Though I'm feeling certain I'm not getting a Topre, at least not for now. Heck, I might even get a Black (I do love me some good force (60-80g near the end of the press?)

Since I'm waiting till the end of January, I'll still have time...

-Swilly

I'm waiting on them Leopolds as well. Archiss KBs do look nice, and curious to see if they are improvements to my FILCO boards

[iMav]

Yeah, when I changed the name it created a "ghost" wiki that mirrors the other one.  "WW Shopping Wiki" has more pizazzz than "Mechanical Keyboards Sorted By Switch" and is easier to type.

Of course if this and the "Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide" were stickies like OCN does it I wouldn't have to keep referring the links.

Send me a PM regarding what you want as far as increased visibility for these wikis and I'll see what can be done.

[kidchunks]

When are you going to take the plunge?

Planning on it for the new year! :smile: