Author Topic: First Step to a well chosen Keyboard  (Read 7316 times)

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Offline Irie

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First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 12:45:24 »
hey, guys,
im new, so take it easy on my noobness please :) ive been using random kbs since i started using computer more than ten years ago. now my 5 years old ultra x media desktop keyboard from logitech which came in a pack with a coardless mouse as well crapped out on me. from what i read so far, most of you guys will be nerdraging in their chair already for its probably not exactly the kinda kb they'd ever touch :D
for those who are still reading ;) the layout of the kb is great in my eyes. i love the huge enter, backspace, and delete buttons. i also like the positioning of the right control and alt button. its a kb with laptop buttons which i really came to like. they are REALLY silent and obviously have a short distance on their way down. it seemed clever to have this to me when i bought it (i even rebought a used one on ebay when i spilled water on the first one) because i was looking form high APM for starcraft. reading on this forum makes me doubt it was the most optimal choice to make. so im hoping you guys can help me figure out the most cost-effective way to aquire a suitable kb for my taste.

i here evereyone here has been falling in love with mechanical keyboards once they tried it. thats pretty much the exact other extreme to the scissors ruebr dome kb with flat laptop style that ive been using. ive picked p hat st pro gamers in korea use the dt35 which is mechanical if im not mistaken. ive also frequently read players liking the abs m1 kb
im willing to give those kbs a chance or another one you might suggest to build my own opinion on mechanical kbs. since they are really affordable.

do you think a guys who has been in love with a laptop kb will like mechanical ones? is there a mechanical kb with laptop keys? :D

edit: oh i forgot to mention: i case you missed it, im looking for a keyboard with german layout. so i guess thats complicate things quite a bit, huh?
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 August 2010, 12:47:57 by Irie »

Offline Irie

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:11:40 »
optically the kb you suggest is doing just fine. layout-wise i feel like you expected.

how do you feel about the things i mentioned? e.g. vrossing over from a flat scissors board to a mechanical one? any sort of hybrids out there?

also being a little bit adept to statistical sciences, id like to point out that the sample size on the poll you mentioned is far to low to make it any reliable ;)

Offline 1839cc

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« Reply #2 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:14:01 »
Well since it's a first step you're asking about, what would you like to change about your previous keyboard? Do you want longer travel, more or less tactility, auditory feedback, more or less resistance to keypresses, etc?

First step is to figure out what you want in a keyboard.
i have seen unix admins with john deere trucker hats, and even seen a man in a nascar shirt correct a passerby's klingon.


Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #3 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:14:54 »
The first step is to buy them all and pick your favorite.  Step two is to sell the rest.


Offline Irie

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« Reply #4 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:30:05 »
Quote from: itlnstln;211457
The first step is to buy them all and pick your favorite.  Step two is to sell the rest.


haha, i like your pragmatic thinking, im not sure im willing to go that roaf tho ;)

@1839cc: thats a very good bunch of questions! to clear those, you guys nood to help me a little bit on my stat quo:
a) travel distances are very low on my current kb, right? i like the short distances a lot so far. mechanical kbs have very long ones comparatively right?
b) the tractility thing is not very clear to me yet, maybe because im not a native speaker on english. i refers to the extent of resistence i feel when the singal is sent, as far as i understand. am i getting this right? if so, i believe, it should be very low on my kb as well...
c) auditory feedback is what i can hear when i press a button? its very silent on my keyb and i like that
d) resistence is also very low on my keyb which i believed to be good for APM (starcraft) is this general consensus?

Offline WhiteRice

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« Reply #5 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:32:45 »
I like my ABS M1, but I have no frame of reference in which to really judge.

Works and feels great to me!

:3

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #6 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:41:12 »
Quote from: Irie;211468
haha, i like your pragmatic thinking, im not sure im willing to go that roaf tho ;)

@1839cc: thats a very good bunch of questions! to clear those, you guys nood to help me a little bit on my stat quo:
a) travel distances are very low on my current kb, right? i like the short distances a lot so far. mechanical kbs have very long ones comparatively right?
b) the tractility thing is not very clear to me yet, maybe because im not a native speaker on english. i refers to the extent of resistence i feel when the singal is sent, as far as i understand. am i getting this right? if so, i believe, it should be very low on my kb as well...
c) auditory feedback is what i can hear when i press a button? its very silent on my keyb and i like that
d) resistence is also very low on my keyb which i believed to be good for APM (starcraft) is this general consensus?


Well, if you're happy with your scissor switch keyboard, then why not get another one?
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Offline Irie

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« Reply #7 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:50:10 »
Quote from: ripster;211473
That huge Delete is gonna be hard to find.  Since you seem happy with what you have I'd just get another.  Plan to replace every 3 years or so (I bet you'll find the new one a lot crisper) and run away from this place!


well i was thinking that as well :D but i mean thousands of nerds who say mechanical is the **** cant be wrong right? ^^
im trying to justify a crossover to mechanical here, so i figured you guys would jump at that :P

Quote from: ripster;211477
This.

This what?

This ^.

Oh, THAT this.


say what? have i been mixing up this and that? ^^

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #8 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 13:59:45 »
Now that re-read the OP, I am going with MW and ripster and saying buy another.  Buy another, and never darken the doors of Geekhack ever again.  Your wallet will thank you.  Sometimes I wish I never showed up here.


Offline 1839cc

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« Reply #9 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:04:23 »
Quote from: Irie;211468
haha, i like your pragmatic thinking, im not sure im willing to go that roaf tho ;)

@1839cc: thats a very good bunch of questions! to clear those, you guys nood to help me a little bit on my stat quo:
a) travel distances are very low on my current kb, right? i like the short distances a lot so far. mechanical kbs have very long ones comparatively right?
b) the tractility thing is not very clear to me yet, maybe because im not a native speaker on english. i refers to the extent of resistence i feel when the singal is sent, as far as i understand. am i getting this right? if so, i believe, it should be very low on my kb as well...
c) auditory feedback is what i can hear when i press a button? its very silent on my keyb and i like that
d) resistence is also very low on my keyb which i believed to be good for APM (starcraft) is this general consensus?

a) Most mechanicals have the full 4 mm travel but fire around 2 mm. ALPS are a bit shorter at 3.5 mm (I think).

b) Yes. The resistance should peak where the switch fires and then fall away.

c) Yes. Good.

d) There is nothing close to a consensus on that.

You might like a Cherry MX brown. It has low tactility and low resistance and does not click.

Topres are another possibility, but I have not tried them, so I defer to others who have to describe them.

Of course these suggestions might be completely wrong. There is no way to know until you try them.
i have seen unix admins with john deere trucker hats, and even seen a man in a nascar shirt correct a passerby's klingon.


Offline mike

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« Reply #10 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:07:57 »
Quote from: Irie;211483
well i was thinking that as well :D but i mean thousands of nerds who say mechanical is the **** cant be wrong right? ^^
im trying to justify a crossover to mechanical here, so i figured you guys would jump at that :P


Well we wouldn't want to suggest a keyboard that you wouldn't like!

Mechanical keyboards as a whole tend to be noisier, longer travel, and higher resistance than the scissor switches you're used to. As you've indicated a preference for the characteristics of a scissor switch keyboard, it's kind of hard to recommend a mechanical.

If you do want to try a mechanical, you'll have to bear in mind that it will be very different to what you're used to. And it may take a considerable amount of time to get used to the benefits of one. Try getting something cheap off eBay - I'm not the one to make suggestions here because I always seem to end up with expensive options there :)
Keyboards: Unicomp UB40T56 with JP3 removed, Unicomp UB4044A, Filco Tenkeyless Brown (with pink highlights), Access AKE1223231, IBM DisplayWriter, Das Keyboard III, and a few others.

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #11 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:09:34 »
Topres in the RF line are straight butter; I like them better than Cherry browns.  The HHKB is a little on the "meh" side, though.  In terms of consistency, Cherry browns are still my fav.  If I had to stick with one switch forever, I would go with Cherry browns.  They feel great in every board I have tried them in.

To the OP, just buy another of what you have and be done.  Ignorance is bliss.


Offline Irie

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« Reply #12 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:23:30 »
lol you guys are hilarious :D no way im running away from this board!!11oneleven ;)

see this is exactly what im trying NOT to do, being ignorant and not trying the allegedly better option. i mean, as i see it, im gonna hate the mechanical boards at first, as pretty much anyone would after using scissors switches for more than half a decade. but if its potently better to use mechanical ones why not get used to it first and see after if its right for me?
if fallen for sticking.with.what-i-know to often already. whats kb would you recommend for me, ive im gonna give this mechanical stuff a shot?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #13 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:30:33 »
One thing to keep in mind is that there is no "best" switch.  If you really like scissor switches, and they work great for you, then so be it.  We just happen to be like-minded enough around here than hardly any of us particularly like scissor switches and other rubber domes.  That said, if you really want to try something out, I would recommend a Filco with Cherry browns or if you're looking for something a little cheaper, you could look for a Compaq MX11800 on eBay.  The MX11800 has a funky layout, but they're cheap, so if you don't like it, you're not out much.


Offline 1839cc

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« Reply #14 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:30:41 »
Well if you're looking for something different, try buckling springs.
i have seen unix admins with john deere trucker hats, and even seen a man in a nascar shirt correct a passerby's klingon.


Offline Irie

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« Reply #15 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:42:02 »
yeah well you probably realized, i wasnt talking about "better" per se. i mean potentially better or more suitable for achieving higher apm once ive got used to it.

jesus, im just realizing how many god-awful typos ive put into my post after re-reading them. see what those cheap-ass keyboards do! :P

Offline Irie

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« Reply #16 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:47:07 »
heres a funny youtube vid of a dt 35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QhwdeVSMeI

Offline Irie

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« Reply #17 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 14:52:48 »
roflz, yeah i guess thats what water does to a dt 35. makes it type all illegible :P

i just realized it comes with membrane switches. this means rubber domes? wonder why this one is so popular among sc progamers...

http://www.lightinthebox.com/Samsung-Authenic-Keyboard-QSENN-DT-35-Black-White_p42519.html

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #18 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 15:07:40 »
Quote from: itlnstln;211495
Topres in the RF line are straight butter; I like them better than Cherry browns.  The HHKB is a little on the "meh" side, though.  In terms of consistency, Cherry browns are still my fav.  If I had to stick with one switch forever, I would go with Cherry browns.  They feel great in every board I have tried them in.

To the OP, just buy another of what you have and be done.  Ignorance is bliss.


Agreed about cherry browns; they are quite nice.

Offline washuai

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« Reply #19 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 22:30:01 »
Can't say you haven't been warned about the dangers of trying out new keyboards and searching for the ultimate one.  

Ok, while I used scissors some of the time, I considered them loud next to my silicone board.  Browns, even without bottoming out, are louder than scissors (nothing obnoxious, but definitely noticeable).  It is for this reason, I wonder if I'd like Topre's better, because I really like quiet.

That said,browns are quiet enough and feel good enough that I still prefer them to silicone and scissors.

Also, I came to mechanicals having a fondness for low travel keys, over full travel rubber domes.  The full keys haven't been an issue for me at all.  I think that's because the travel feels good (plus the key actuates at 2 mm, so it isn't like you have to go the full distance).

If you prop up your scissors with their legs/feet, then ignore what I'm about to say.  Even though I've switched from the uber flat keyboard, to mechanical, I still prefer the flatter/lower key layout in relation to my hands.  At home this sucks, because the keyboard tray doesn't go lower.  It isn't that big of a deal, but it is something I still feel the difference of.  Though, I'd rather get a difference desk, or put the keyboard in my lap, than stop using cherry browns.

However, I went seeking other keyboards, because I was unhappy with the durability of silicone and scissors.  

Remember, if it isn't broken, don't fix it.  The more you know, the less you know and more dissatisfied, you'll be, lol. Perfection doesn't exist.  I mean, I totally know I don't need better than cherry browns and yet I really gotta get my mitts on an 87U low noise . .
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 August 2010, 22:34:31 by washuai »
⌨(home)Realforce 87U ⌨(backup) Filco Majestouch 104 Brown ⌨(backup)Cherry G80-8200LPDUS ⌨(work)Leopold FC200RT/AB
☛CST L-Trac-X ☛Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman ☛ Razer 3500 dpi ☛MS Explorer DeathAdder

Lay-a-bouts:  ⌨Full 109 Key Virtually Indestructable  Keyboard ⌨Compaq Radio Quack GYUR84SK
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Offline Brian8bit

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« Reply #20 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 22:48:36 »

Offline Brian8bit

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« Reply #21 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 22:59:02 »
Unless you shove it up your arse I suspect it'll work fine.

Offline washuai

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« Reply #22 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 23:03:38 »
Nope, Strait is for strait jacket, not for working.  
I mean how does a finish improve reliability?  
That keyboard has way too much bezel.  Even though it copies the round chicklet Macness, it manages to seem outdated.  Also, it sports a number pad.  

To quote ANTM, Dreck-i-tude.
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 August 2010, 23:06:37 by washuai »
⌨(home)Realforce 87U ⌨(backup) Filco Majestouch 104 Brown ⌨(backup)Cherry G80-8200LPDUS ⌨(work)Leopold FC200RT/AB
☛CST L-Trac-X ☛Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman ☛ Razer 3500 dpi ☛MS Explorer DeathAdder

Lay-a-bouts:  ⌨Full 109 Key Virtually Indestructable  Keyboard ⌨Compaq Radio Quack GYUR84SK
Wishlist: ⌨KBDmania Pure ⌨Déck 82 ice/frost/toxic/royal ⌨Ricercar spos G86-62410EUAGSA ☠ ✞⌨miniGuru(s) ☠
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Offline Brian8bit

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« Reply #23 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 23:07:17 »
@washuai: Good thing the recommendation of the strait was for the OP and not you then. Phew. Disaster averted.

Offline washuai

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« Reply #24 on: Wed, 11 August 2010, 23:13:18 »
well, I guess my original should have been @ Ripster's gay comment.  
The OP's probably aware of the MAC boards.  Spaced chicklets are going to cause some misses compared to the layout of the board the OP is used to.  There is not any benefit that I discern from the recommendation, so I stand by the its bad for the OP, unless the OP loves it.
⌨(home)Realforce 87U ⌨(backup) Filco Majestouch 104 Brown ⌨(backup)Cherry G80-8200LPDUS ⌨(work)Leopold FC200RT/AB
☛CST L-Trac-X ☛Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman ☛ Razer 3500 dpi ☛MS Explorer DeathAdder

Lay-a-bouts:  ⌨Full 109 Key Virtually Indestructable  Keyboard ⌨Compaq Radio Quack GYUR84SK
Wishlist: ⌨KBDmania Pure ⌨Déck 82 ice/frost/toxic/royal ⌨Ricercar spos G86-62410EUAGSA ☠ ✞⌨miniGuru(s) ☠
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Offline maxlugar

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« Reply #25 on: Thu, 12 August 2010, 01:39:35 »
Quote from: ripster;211745
Hmm... up my ass I think I'd need the wireless Apple Aluminum.


LOL!

You'll be needing a carryying case for that um anal dil...I mean um... wireless Apple aluminum keyboard.  There is a great company in SAN FRANCISCO of all places that makes special cases for your dil...er that is, your wireless Apple aluminum "keyboard".  It's called Waterfield Designs.  Check it out on your next visit to SAN FRANCISCO  ;)
Emperor of the IBM 84-key AT Model F Darkside

Offline Irie

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« Reply #26 on: Thu, 12 August 2010, 08:17:05 »
the mac-type keyboard is indeed purdy homo :< i need profile in my keys and cant stand white when it comes to computers.

im getting this one atm and worry about getting a mechanical one once i find an affordable one that is not ugly as f*** question is which. the abs m1 seems affordable but obv a lotta peepz dont like it a lot. the dt 35 i was was considering seems not to be mechanical :D the filcos, DAS, and HHKBs out there look AWESOME and have a fricking price tag on them...

Offline Irie

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« Reply #27 on: Thu, 12 August 2010, 09:34:17 »
ya i agree. and it has pretty much the same layout as my old keyb except for the giant del key ;)
can you recommend a cheap, new, black, mechanical board, ripster my fave hipster?

Offline gr1m

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« Reply #28 on: Thu, 12 August 2010, 10:14:00 »
Quote from: Irie;211825
ya i agree. and it has pretty much the same layout as my old keyb except for the giant del key ;)
can you recommend a cheap, new, black, mechanical board, ripster my fave hipster?


How cheap?

Offline Irie

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« Reply #29 on: Thu, 12 August 2010, 10:22:59 »
Quote from: gr1m;211841
How cheap?


very, 20€

Offline Irie

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« Reply #30 on: Thu, 12 August 2010, 10:32:13 »
am i just not looking right or will i have major problems aquiring those cheap mechanical keyboards with a german layout?

Offline Irie

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« Reply #31 on: Fri, 13 August 2010, 12:10:01 »
i'll take that as a "yes, dude, youre f***ed"

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #32 on: Fri, 13 August 2010, 12:26:10 »
Quote from: Irie;212267
i'll take that as a "yes, dude, youre f***ed"


its always a crapshoot with keyboards dude, probably doubly so with mechanicals. If you find one that works well out of the box, then ya it'll probably last you a lifetime. But theres the rub. Does it work well out of the box? You'll find out.

whats 20 euros in dollars these days? 30 or 40 bucks? In the US the only mechanicals you'll find at that price are used ones (likely an M or an at101w) on ebay (which might be fine, by the way).

New ones here start around $60 (scorpius m10 to adessos to das to filco to topre, roughly in that order of ever-increasing price (and not counting collectible vintage stuff)). (The $20 abs board from a while back was an anomoly, and btw its not as crappy as ripster says, lots of happy users of it too). Which is why in the end only you can decide what works for you - and i'd back itln's advice to buy everything keep what you like and sell the rest, its really the only way to 'do it right', to be honest.
What you can get from us is a rough expectation of what different switches may feel like, but beyond that we're all speculating and just telling you what we've liked, which may or may not jive with what you like.

Also mw is right too, if you like scissor switches, why not stick with them? there are tons of pretty high quality scissor boards out there. Mechanicals arent 'automatically' better; it depends on what you like.

If you ask me sound/noise and key resistance are the two biggest categories that will determine what you'll like. My personal theory is that there are heavy-fingered typers and light-fingered typers and never shall the two ever meet.

The geekhack wiki is a good resource btw if you want to flesh out the mechanical options.

Btw cherry makes a low profile scissor switch too, IIRC.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 August 2010, 12:42:27 by wellington1869 »

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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #33 on: Fri, 13 August 2010, 19:29:52 »
Quote from: wellington1869;212273
(The $20 abs board from a while back was an anomoly, and btw its not as crappy as ripster says, lots of happy users of it too)[

Wasn't that keyboard notorious for its controller issues? You know, the sort of stuff you go on a crusade over when it has a Filco logo?

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #34 on: Fri, 13 August 2010, 19:38:42 »
Quote from: ch_123;212426
Wasn't that keyboard notorious for its controller issues? You know, the sort of stuff you go on a crusade over when it has a Filco logo?


two crucial differences, in case the main point that i keep drilling home still hasnt gotten through:

1) YOU COULD RETURN IT.

2) YOU COULD RETURN IT.

3) No, it wasnt notorious, it was fine if you dont type like a maniac, just like the filco.

My issue with the filco wasnt that it was slow (tho that was A issue), it was that YOU COULD NOT RETURN IT when you brought it home, typed on it, and discovered it could not keep up with you.

And moreoever, the vendor went on a 6 month crusade to blame CONSUMERS for the problem, (a la "you're holding it wrong!!!") before eventually acknowledging it was the design of the controller and washing his hands of all responsiblity.  A class act. The long discussion/attempt on this site by me and a few others had been an attempt to demonstrate that it was the board/controller and not the consumer who was to blame.

So yea, to recap, the M1 doesnt get the same treatment, because YOU COULD RETURN IT.  AND didnt have to feel like you had just been royally ****ed in the anus, repeatedly and violently, for having bought it and for having pointed out a limitation on it.

(so yea, three points, i guess).

You can find all this spelled out (in multi-colored gore) on my three-keyboard review, with links to relevant posts and history of the crusades involved, but let me guess; TL;DR, right? Figures.

See particularly the first link there; and the orange colored text, if you want the dumbed down version.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 August 2010, 19:49:21 by wellington1869 »

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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #35 on: Fri, 13 August 2010, 19:51:43 »
Quote from: ripster;212432
I'm glad you're over this.  

lol ripster, dont even pretend. You and Ch are the ones who keep bringing this up, as is the case here too. Check the log files.  

and you're being counterproductve. All its doing is sending people to the links that you'd like to bury.

Quote

I petition Geekhack to remove such language.

i'm surprised imav removed the profanity filter at all, but so long as people are cursing all over the forum, i'll play too.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Irie

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« Reply #36 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 10:08:02 »
cursing makes life so much more enjoyable. why **** with that?! :D

seriously, youre links are pure genius, rippy. but you gotta acknowledge wellington has got a point when he is saying that replying to his rage rant with irony is kinda rude to him ;)

by the way, has anyone got an idea how i can aquire one of those ABS boards? that would be THE most perfect opportunity to get to know mechanical boards cheaply
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 August 2010, 10:27:54 by Irie »

Offline patrickgeekhack

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« Reply #37 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 13:17:22 »
Quote from: itlnstln;211457
The first step is to buy them all and pick your favorite.  Step two is to sell the rest.


I've not read the whole thread, but that the best way to find the right keyboard. I've bought quite a few, but have not sold any. Fortunately, I'm using quite a few of them.

Wife's PC: ABS M1
MacBook: Topre/Filco with brown Cherry
Work:  G80-3000
Secondary computer at home: Compaq MX-11800

If my brother comes to visit next year, I'll give him one of my G80-3000 and probably get a Das.

Offline patrickgeekhack

  • Posts: 1460
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 16:42:44 »
Quote from: ripster;212595
Advising a new keyboard buyer to buy them all as a first step is not particularly helpful.

And anybody following this thread should NOT buy the Logitech K300.  Another Geekhacker bought it and found the keys mushy.


I should have put a disclaimer. I am not telling the buyer to go out and buy every keyboard. I was just saying that's ultimately, to be able to find the right keyboard for one, one has to try the various existing keyboards. It's hard to say which one will suit a particular person. All we can do by saying that this or that keyboard will be good for you is telling the user what we think will be good for him or her based on our own experience. We cannot do more than that. The problem with that approach is that we are not the user. What we think is good for us is not necessarily going to be good for the user. A good example is the Fukka switch. Some people hate it, but others like it. Someone on this thread said that he loves his ABS M1, a keyboard which a lot don't like.

Offline gr1m

  • Posts: 439
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 17:37:56 »
You could read my thread to find out how I went about finding my first one. A basic summary:

1) Find out what switches will suit you
2) Find out your options (Filco, Das, whatever)
3) Do some research yourself. I found out about the Steelseries 7G myself and then the 6Gv2.
4) Buy the most logical choice.

So those steps applied to me were:
I found out that Cherry Blacks are the best for gaming so I decided to get them.
I found out that I liked the look of Filcos a lot but I didn't want to pay $200 for it with shipping and customs included.
I found out that a lot of people liked the 7Gs and claimed that they were as solid as Filcos, but also that it had layout problems.
I found out that the soon-to-be-released 6Gv2 fixed the layout problems and looked pretty much exactly like Filcos.
I bought it.

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 21:45:59 »
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;212625
I should have put a disclaimer. I am not telling the buyer to go out and buy every keyboard. I was just saying that's ultimately, to be able to find the right keyboard for one, one has to try the various existing keyboards. It's hard to say which one will suit a particular person. All we can do by saying that this or that keyboard will be good for you is telling the user what we think will be good for him or her based on our own experience. We cannot do more than that. The problem with that approach is that we are not the user. What we think is good for us is not necessarily going to be good for the user. A good example is the Fukka switch. Some people hate it, but others like it. Someone on this thread said that he loves his ABS M1, a keyboard which a lot don't like.


what patrick said.  And telling newbies that they need to find out what they like for themselves (whcih is what me and itln said on the previous page as well) is being fair-minded and honest. Rather than telling them what to buy. Then again some newbies really just want to be told. For them we have ripster.

Its not that expensive to try the basic types of boards if you dont mind taking the time to sell the ones you dont want. In most cases you'll make back most of what you paid.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline sam113101

  • Posts: 213
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 23:26:57 »
Okay, here is what you're going to do.
Buy a filco tenkeyless with cherry mx blue switches, the otaku version.
When you receive it, type on it, give it a couple of days.

Now, you're able to tell if:
-you like flat keys better than higher keys
-you like it when there is a click sound
-you like when it's tactile
-you like tenkeyless boards
-you want something that requires more or less force (blues are in the middle, I'd say)
-you want the lettering

maybe you'll like blues and won't buy another keyboard
if you don't like blues, you'll know better what you want in a keyboard

because when you're coming from rubber dome and you never tried anything else, it's hard to say
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 August 2010, 23:32:55 by sam113101 »
Hoping to hear from you again, your dearest friend, sam113101.

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 14 August 2010, 23:39:09 »
Quote from: ripster;212733
20 Euros.


thats funny rippy, cuz you were telling him not to buy the affordable abs m1 :)  Now you're for it, weird :)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 15 August 2010, 00:04:42 »
Quote from: ripster;212739
One love.


20 Euros....

Focus people.


thats like something (the old) MW would post.  irrelevant video and not answering the question.

Other than the m1 there isnt any new board he could get. Yet you were against that.

His options were a few used models or the M1. We mentioned those options already.

And we mentioned that he might want to change his approach a bit, given these limitations.  Somehow you dont want him to consider that. Why? So weird. But whatever. Obvious Ripster is Obvious.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 August 2010, 00:09:43 by wellington1869 »

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 15 August 2010, 00:14:34 »
Quote from: ripster;212748
You're in a good mood as ever.


stating the obvious means i'm in a "bad mood"? Dude, you're using up your supply of 'irony'. On the contrary, I enjoy catching you in contradictions. Its like a pasttime for me.

however, star trek is on. goodbye.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Irie

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 27
First Step to a well chosen Keyboard
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 15 August 2010, 07:26:59 »
i love you guys! the intensity and devotion im feeling you have for these sorts of things is incredible :) thanks for the advice about oc.net that should really help out.
but rippy, mon... you musta misunderstood, son. im getting a cheap-ass rubber dome board, so that i can use my computer at home for the time being. my current kb is really unrealiable due to its screwed up wireless stick. until im certain i can get a nice cheap mechanical board, i'ma use the cherry one. but if i can get a abs m1 from oc.net im certainly gonna go for it.
the thing is, im pretty sure none of these guys is gonna have a german keyboard layout. so thats complicate things quite a bit

amusing though, that your user pic, wellington, has got this really upset puppet while rippy has got this smiling chick. so i keep having this funny picture in my head, where an angry muppet is randomly ranting at some by-passing hot lady. makes me laugh :D
im aware its probably not a fair assessment of you guys but you cant deny a certain analogy to this "discussion" :P
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 August 2010, 07:39:30 by Irie »